The Antichrist Myth

[Trax]

The falling away, hmmmm, I think many of times in history that could be "the falling away"...

How can all these people be hypochondriacs when they're sick all the time??? The people fulfilling the prophecy
can't see they are fulfilling it. Its getting fulfilled on a full throttle massive scale now.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

At this point in the game, if one isn't seeing it, then he/she just isn't going to see it.

 

[RickyZ]

One thing I keep seeing here in this thread is the belief that once a prophecy is 'fulfilled' it becomes void and moot. But God and His Word are eternal; and the spiritual and physical worlds reflect in each other like two facing mirrors. That's what's behind the phenomenom of history repeating itself, and why a prophecy such as 'Jerusalem will be sacked' has not only been fulfilled several times in the past, but will be once again, a little more so than ever before. 'Antichrist' is a spirit, many have and will embody it, and one in the end will embody it wholely.


Some have made argument elsewhere that there are no new prophecies given; while that is true, there are no dead and buried ones as well.

 

[nathan3]

there is nothing to be afraid of,. When you have the truth. Dont be afriad of the antichrist , be more worried if you dont listen to God's warning. because thats just what the world wants , if for Christians not to pay attention. Antichrist is nothing to fear if your in Christ. he cant deceive you. unless we allow it

 

[Trax]

One thing I keep seeing here in this thread is the belief that once a prophecy is 'fulfilled' it becomes void and moot. But God and His Word are eternal; and the spiritual and physical worlds reflect in each other like two facing mirrors. That's what's behind the phenomenom of history repeating itself, and why a prophecy such as 'Jerusalem will be sacked' has not only been fulfilled several times in the past, but will be once again, a little more so than ever before. 'Antichrist' is a spirit, many have and will embody it, and one in the end will embody it wholely.


Some have made argument elsewhere that there are no new prophecies given; while that is true, there are no dead and buried ones as well.

So,.....are we going to have another Christ die on the cross or was that fulfilled and done?

 

[RickyZ]

So,.....are we going to have another Christ die on the cross or was that fulfilled and done?

Good question. That only happens once, because He is the bridge that joins the two mirrors into a single image, if that makes any sense. Kinda like 'The reflection stops here'.

 

[Therapon]

It is just that.

Of course, but an opinion based on solid historical fact and Scripture. In 1591 a Jesuit priest named Ribera was commissioned to come up with a doctrine that would stop the Reformers from linking the Catholic hierarchy with the "whore of Babylon" of Rev 18. Ribera's invention was the futurist view: (1) a rebuilt Babylon, (2) a rebuilt Jewish temple, (3) a restoration of animal sacrifices and (4) a coming Antichrist . . . all to take place at the end of the Christian era! Ribers's views eventually morphed into the Dispensational position so popular in the Western Church today. Though a couple of earlied theologians had mentioned those views, the generally accepted eschatology of the Reformation church was "linear historic," that Daniel and Revelation were in the process of being fulfilled throughout the Christian era.

So over the last 35 years I was led me to look closely at futurist doctrines, only to fiind that they were primarily interpretive. That nowhere in Scripture were futurist views actually stated, and I mean nowhere! All were suppositional theology. Now we can support any position we like if we jockery Scriptures to fit, and the church has been doing that for centuries, but what we should be asking ourselves is whether our contrived doctrines are God's intent for a given passage.

I found that they were not, but it's almost impossible to go against entrenched traditions even when you can prove them false.

 

[nathan3]

Of course, but an opinion based on solid historical fact and Scripture. In 1591 a Jesuit priest named Ribera was commissioned to come up with a doctrine that would stop the Reformers from linking the Catholic hierarchy with the "whore of Babylon" of Rev 18. Ribera's invention was the futurist view: (1) a rebuilt Babylon, (2) a rebuilt Jewish temple, (3) a restoration of animal sacrifices and (4) a coming Antichrist . . . all to take place at the end of the Christian era! Ribers's views eventually morphed into the Dispensational position so popular in the Western Church today. Though a couple of earlied theologians had mentioned those views, the generally accepted eschatology of the Reformation church was "linear historic," that Daniel and Revelation were in the process of being fulfilled throughout the Christian era.

So over the last 35 years I was led me to look closely at futurist doctrines, only to fiind that they were primarily interpretive. That nowhere in Scripture were futurist views actually stated, and I mean nowhere! All were suppositional theology. Now we can support any position we like if we jockery Scriptures to fit, and the church has been doing that for centuries, but what we should be asking ourselves is whether our contrived doctrines are God's intent for a given passage.

I found that they were not, but it's almost impossible to go against entrenched traditions even when you can prove them false.

I don't know about most the stuff you mentioned here. In the original hand written Hebrew ,Greek and Aramaic text, antichrist is there. It's nothing that was added... How people twist that is another thing. But it is there. It was taught by the apostles. and Christ. And Daniel etc. Its just a matter of understanding those scriptures and leaving man's ideas out of it.

 

[Therapon]

Its just a matter of understanding those scriptures and leaving man's ideas out of it.

That's exactly what I've been trying to do, but once a doctrine gets entrenched in our minds it's almoat impossible to get it out no matter how bogus it may be.

 

[nathan3]

That's exactly what I've been trying to do, but once a doctrine gets entrenched in our minds it's almoat impossible to get it out no matter how bogus it may be.

The scripture is there, it is written ;There aren't any mistranslation about those text. they carry well into the English .Some things seem like new doctrine, because of the problem with the majority ignoring the teaching. Neglecting it, until it seems like some new thing, when its in fact been there all along. That fact has not been lost to me. I don't over read it. It is the problem with the so called teachers of the day. Just like then. They ignore what's written. That is what is causing this confusion. It's not being taught.

 

[MidniteWelder]

One thing I keep seeing here in this thread is the belief that once a prophecy is 'fulfilled' it becomes void and moot. But God and His Word are eternal; and the spiritual and physical worlds reflect in each other like two facing mirrors. That's what's behind the phenomenom of history repeating itself, and why a prophecy such as 'Jerusalem will be sacked' has not only been fulfilled several times in the past, but will be once again, a little more so than ever before. 'Antichrist' is a spirit, many have and will embody it, and one in the end will embody it wholely.


Some have made argument elsewhere that there are no new prophecies given; while that is true, there are no dead and buried ones as well.

The devil is quite aware of what reaction the pshychological concept of crying wolf does within humans.
You make some good points in your post here Ricky.
In fact he likely invented the theory as experimentation.
After all he has had how many years to experiment on humans and human instinct like lab rats? Thousands.
Our adversary has much more experience in physchological & spiritual warfare than many may give him credit for.
This is why we need the spirit. It takes God given discernment to outhink him and be prepared.
In fact we ourselves cannot outhink a being possibly many more times intelligent than we are, but God can and can offer that knowledge to whom he chooses.
So what would happen if over and over people said, so and so is the anti-christ, no hitler is, no Osama is, no wait Obama is the false prophet etc. until finallllllly.
Wolf is cried for real and its been cried so many times many people turn a blind eye when it really happens thinking yeah well thats what they said the last time and the time before that.
Satan Likely planned it this very way since he also knows we have been forewarned by Gods word what to look for. So then he gets people to focus on what to look for until they trick themselves into seeing what they have been wanting to see.

I dont know if its like two facing mirrors or more that its one mirror trying to duplicate the image of the real thing.
Whats a mirror reflect? light
(masquerades as an angel of light)

If one stared at the sky long enough trying to see if a UFO is real one may actually convince themself that theyve seen one.
The devil thereby knowing human nature initiating those previous rulers and dictators to APPEAR to be what everyone was watching for so that when the real time comes many will be unprepared and fallen away. Like the virgins whose lamps were not lit.

Every church seems messed up in one way or another, Jesus when addressing the churches in Revelation chpt 2 commended what he approved of to each of them, but then also corrected what he held against them (them allowing certain aspects of worldliness to be intertwined with his church.)
Its not so much a matter of who or what person may lead the Nations when the end really happens since we already know the spirit which is the influence behind that, it is more that Christ gave us not a name of a specific person or ruler but the signs of the times to watch for.
The mark of the beast being the main sign to not be blind to nor deceived by since it appears the repercussions of such (worshipping the beast as opposed to God) are non forgiveable.
Being prepared and recognizing Christs return is important.
The prudent study of the real bill, lends discernment to an easy identification of the counterfeit.


While we may not have to respect satan for who he is, (he's likely a little ticked about that since he USED to be Gods covering cherub) its wise to respect what the enemy is "capable of" so that we arent blinded or fooled.
We may be saved, but without Gods constant voice in our ear we can still be fooled by a being who walked in the Garden and worked with God at one time in heaven for who knows long before being cast out of his kingdom,

There may not be any new Prophecies, yet our eyes should be ever ready to be further opened as God removes the wisdom of man replacing it with his own.
Some prophecies which looked like prophecies being fulfilled could have been satans attempt at just that, written by the author of confusion to distract from the real author
One thing I notice in the bible Christ doesnt give much credit to satan(kind of like not giving a child attention through improper behavior) but more how he will be overcome.

We are told to be watchful, and be prepared.

 

[Bookends]

Paul says in his letter in 2nd thess chapter 2. that before Christ returns to this earth , the son of perditions needs to stand in Jerusalem claiming to be God and showing that he is God. Paul contines to say that Christ will return to this earth, after that falling away, and that will be the end.

The son of perdition: Perdition is one of the base names of Satan ( destroyer ), Apollyon means destroyer in the Greek. That is Satans name.

The desolator is another of Satan's names.

Anti in the Greek is, instead of Christ. As Paul stated, instead of Christ, comes Antichrist first claiming to be God. The son of Perdition, or apollyon., It is one of Satan's name sin the greek, he is the Only one with that name, no one ells. it can fit no other person. The greek is very specific

So when John and Christ say, a false Christ shall rise in the last day, they mean what they say. And the revelation of Jesus Christ, Chapter 13, the 2nd beast, is performing miracles just as Christ said he would in Mark 13: later in the chapter, and claiming to be the Lamb , as Paul stated also. its not that diffiuclt.

Why do you ignore this?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

This is a book written to the Thessalonians concerning the issues and events in their day... Yes we can gleam out of all the books of the bible some insight and instruction for us...But we always must ask who is the writer talking to (audience), what is going on-current events (why and what is the writer conveying in addressing the current events of that day), and does it have any application for us as Christians today. WE are so eager to apply directly everything said in the bible as if it were to pertain to us directly!

I guess my way of thinking makes our day and future boring to you, which is to say there is no entertainment value in stating that some of these things pertain to the 1st Century Chruch, the past, which was their future. But IMHO it sure leads to error...

In God's peace and love....

 

[Bookends]

How can all these people be hypochondriacs when they're sick all the time??? The people fulfilling the prophecy
can't see they are fulfilling it. Its getting fulfilled on a full throttle massive scale now.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

At this point in the game, if one isn't seeing it, then he/she just isn't going to see it.

You see many instances in the NT where "a fallen away occurred"...The Jews for one...
One more example, but more could be provided, in Church of Galations (Gal. 1:6):[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that
you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel...

Paul was talking directly to the Galatian churches in his day!

That doesn't mean that I'm saying this same thing doesn't happen today, for I do believe it does. It's been happening since the fall of man.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Antichrist Myth

What was the purpose of John’s gospel and his three epistles? Why was he inspired to write them at the very end of his life, circa 95 to 105 A.D.? What had happened to the Church during his lifetime?

Acts 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

Had the Apostle Paul’s prophecy of the church’s future already come to pass while John was alive? A few 1st and 2nd century heresies: Dualism (two gods), Gnosticism (Jesus not flesh), Montanism (additional revelation), Judaism (legalism), Asceticism (monasticism), Nocolaitanism (false apostles), Balaamism (merchandising the Gospel). Seeds of all appeared in the First Century. So it appears that John wrote when he did to expose false leaders and false doctrines that were already in the church. Confirmed by John 1:1-14, 2 Ti 3:6-8, Rev 2:2, 2:14-15, 2:20.

So who is “the” Antichrist? Did you know there are ONLY 4 VERSES in Scripture that mention “antichrist" by name?



1 John 2:18, “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many
antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last time.” (NAS)

1 John 2:22, “Who is a liar but the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ. He is THE (Gr. definite article “te”) antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father.” (NAS)

1 John 4:3, “And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.” (NAS)

2 John 7, “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is THE deceiver and THE antichrist.” (NAS)

Believe it or not, that’s all of them and I’ve also heard the moon was made of green cheese, but my having heard it doesn’t make it true. So do any of the above verses say there’s going to be a future Antichrist? If so, I fail to see it, or is John just exposing another heresy? Look at what’s being taught in evangelical churches today as struck-in-stone doctrines . . .

1. Antichrist will appear during the last 7 years of this era.
2. Rule as good leader 3 ½ years.
3. Rule as bad leader 3 ½ years.
4. Help the Jews rebuild the temple.
5. Reinstate animal sacrifices.
6. Build a “talking” image on the temple mount.
7. Stop sacrifices.
8. Destroy the temple during his last 3 ½ years.
9. Turn against the Jews.
10. Persecute Christians and Jews during a “seven year” tribulation.
11. Start Armageddon.
12. Be Satan in human form.

Sound familiar? Well guess what, not a single one of those popular end-time beliefs can be directly supported by the Bible, all are guesswork theology! During during the Christian era, God’s Temple is not a physical building on Mount Moriah! So lets locate where God says the Temple of God is located during the Christian Era . . .

1 Corinthians 3:16 “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”

2 Corinthians 6:16 “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Ephesians 2:22 “In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

The following verse in which Satan Invades the Temple of God is usually interpreted to be about a coming Antichrist, but that ignores where the Temple of God is located during the Christian era . . .

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 “That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (Satan is called a “man” in Isaiah 14:16 and elsewhere in Scripture); Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god (Satan and fallen angels do that), or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

So where is the temple of God during the Christian era? In the believer’s heart! So this “he” of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 cannot a human! He is a demon or Satan himself, attacking the minds of Christians by masquerading as the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 11:14. All because invading spirits are not tested as commanded by 1 John 4:1-3.

The Command We Have Forgotten . . .

1 John 4:1-3 “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (Greek, δοϰιμάζω, dok-im-ad’-zo: to test, try, discern or examine. This is a command, not just a suggestion.) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of
God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

The Lord already warned us, “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,” 2 Corinthians 11:13. We forget it to our peril!

2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 “Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (i.e., “restrains will restrain”, NAS), until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked (spirit) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.”

Genesis 6:3 “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.”

False church during the End-Times . . .

1 Timothy 4:1-2 “. . . in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron . . .”

2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”

Note: What I have written I have written; I will not debate or argue it. I leave that to those who believe it their Christian duty to do so. <wry smile>

Perhaps reading Daniel in prayer and meditation may expand understanding of John's writings. Was there something wrong with our Lord to have chosen John as one of the Twelve? I believe our Lord, Yeshua, is perfect and the author of what is perfect.

 

[Bookends]

One thing I keep seeing here in this thread is the belief that once a prophecy is 'fulfilled' it becomes void and moot. But God and His Word are eternal; and the spiritual and physical worlds reflect in each other like two facing mirrors. That's what's behind the phenomenom of history repeating itself, and why a prophecy such as 'Jerusalem will be sacked' has not only been fulfilled several times in the past, but will be once again, a little more so than ever before. 'Antichrist' is a spirit, many have and will embody it, and one in the end will embody it wholely.


Some have made argument elsewhere that there are no new prophecies given; while that is true, there are no dead and buried ones as well.

So is Christ going to come and die again? History may repeat itself, but it never repeats itself in the exact same manner. Yes, I believe there is but only one prophecy to be fulfilled, and that's the 2nd Coming of our Lord and Savior in which ALL in the grave shall be raised up, those in Christ to eternal life and those who have done evil to eternal condemnation. John 5:28-29

 

[zone]

That's exactly what I've been trying to do, but once a doctrine gets entrenched in our minds it's almoat impossible to get it out no matter how bogus it may be.

show me where Ishmael (arab terrorists and islam) is the antichrist/end-time bad guy ellis.

show us your expanding 70th week again.

 

[zone]

Of course, but an opinion based on solid historical fact and Scripture. In 1591 a Jesuit priest named Ribera was commissioned to come up with a doctrine that would stop the Reformers from linking the Catholic hierarchy with the "whore of Babylon" of Rev 18. Ribera's invention was the futurist view: (1) a rebuilt Babylon, (2) a rebuilt Jewish temple, (3) a restoration of animal sacrifices and (4) a coming Antichrist . . . all to take place at the end of the Christian era! Ribers's views eventually morphed into the Dispensational position so popular in the Western Church today. Though a couple of earlied theologians had mentioned those views, the generally accepted eschatology of the Reformation church was "linear historic," that Daniel and Revelation were in the process of being fulfilled throughout the Christian era.

So over the last 35 years I was led me to look closely at futurist doctrines, only to fiind that they were primarily interpretive. That nowhere in Scripture were futurist views actually stated, and I mean nowhere! All were suppositional theology. Now we can support any position we like if we jockery Scriptures to fit, and the church has been doing that for centuries, but what we should be asking ourselves is whether our contrived doctrines are God's intent for a given passage.

I found that they were not, but it's almost impossible to go against entrenched traditions even when you can prove them false.

sounds great ellis.

but what about your insistence that the Dome of the Rock is the Abomination of Desolation?
your 70th week worked out mathematically (falsely), making your eschatology 100% dispensational?
what about your assertion jews returning to Palestine is a fulfillment of prophecy, making your eschatology 100% dispensational?

fancy footwork, ellis.

 

[zone]

The scripture is there, it is written ;There aren't any mistranslation about those text. they carry well into the English .Some things seem like new doctrine, because of the problem with the majority ignoring the teaching. Neglecting it, until it seems like some new thing, when its in fact been there all along. That fact has not been lost to me. I don't over read it. It is the problem with the so called teachers of the day. Just like then. They ignore what's written. That is what is causing this confusion. It's not being taught.

nathan,
according to your understanding, what does the future hold in terms of the anti-instead of christ who is to appear?
is it going to be satan appearing; looking/sounding/acting just like Jesus?

you say it's not being taught.
would you teach it?
what are you getting at of late in your posts?

 

[JaumeJ]

All who read the Word should be aware of the blessing conferred by Yahweh, God, on Ishmael. He was the father of twelve princes, and they are listed in Genesis. Now, I do not pretend to understand implicitly what this signifies, but our Abba bothered to have them written down and the words of His blessing upon Ishmael. He did this, and there is a reason. Ishmael is also a son of Abraham, though not the son of promise.
As for who the beast will be, it is written the number of his name is six six and six, and this calls for wisdom to understand.
Why does everyone tend to ignore the Old Testament writings on the same person and time to come? Personally, I cannot read Revelation without reading Daniel also. Having read these books dozens of times, I know about the same now as when I first began reading them in 1969. No, I am not complaining, neither do I boast of this, however I do wait for understanding to be given. Were I to begin to pass on what I "think," it would be in error, I am certain.
It is my solid belief that come the time of the beast, the person of Antichristist, all who love Yahweh, God, and cleave to His Only Begotten Son will know just who he is and the time that is upon us, for our Father would never leave us abandoned. Believe God, and when you do not know, wait on the Lord. He is not slow as people are slow. Yahweh, God, bless all who are hoping in Messiah, amen.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Paul says in his letter in 2nd thess chapter 2. that before Christ returns to this earth , the son of perditions needs to stand in Jerusalem claiming to be God and showing that he is God. Paul contines to say that Christ will return to this earth, after that falling away, and that will be the end.

The son of perdition: Perdition is one of the base names of Satan ( destroyer ), Apollyon means destroyer in the Greek. That is Satans name.

The desolator is another of Satan's names.

Anti in the Greek is, instead of Christ. As Paul stated, instead of Christ, comes Antichrist first claiming to be God. The son of Perdition, or apollyon., It is one of Satan's name sin the greek, he is the Only one with that name, no one ells. it can fit no other person. The greek is very specific

So when John and Christ say, a false Christ shall rise in the last day, they mean what they say. And the revelation of Jesus Christ, Chapter 13, the 2nd beast, is performing miracles just as Christ said he would in Mark 13: later in the chapter, and claiming to be the Lamb , as Paul stated also. its not that diffiuclt.

the primary meaning of 'anti' in greek is opposed to or against...so 'antichrist' would mean 'opposed to christ'...as when john calls those who deny that jesus is the christ 'antichrists'

paul never mentions any antichrists...he mentions the man of lawlessness...and paul's description of the man of lawlessness does not coincide with john's description of antichrists...

finally if you have studied daniel you would know that beasts in the bible represent empires...not individual people...neither the first nor the second beast in revelation are individual people...

 

[Therapon]

finally if you have studied daniel you would know that beasts in the bible represent empires...not individual people...neither the first nor the second beast in revelation are individual people...

All three beasts, the Leopard-Bear-Lion, the beast "with two horns like a lamb" and the Scarlet beast were empires, though the beast "with two horns like a lamb" was in the "enopion" or in the sight of of the Leopard-Bear-Lion. So the beast "with two horns like a lamb" was governing the Holy Land while the Leopard-Bear-Lion was still there.