Oneness
- Thread starter Chesed
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I understand what everyone who believes in 3 separate beings Father, Son, Holy Ghost that make up God. A lot of you are pointing out Jesus said He is going to sit at the right hand of the Father in heaven, as far as what this class is saying He wasn't saying he was literally going to sit on the right side of the Father but He would have all power. That is confusing to me because why would Jesus say that if he was one being just manifested as the the Son, in that case there really wouldn't be a need for Jesus to say that. Also they said if the Jews had thought Jesus was saying he was a separate being and not the Father Himself they never would have accepted that and He probably would have been stoned. They make a point when Jesus prayed to the Father He was praying in the form of a man to His spirit form in heaven. I guess that means when Jesus was baptized and when He prayed He was doing it to set an example for us what we are supposed to do?
We will be studying this topic at least a few weeks. Those are just a few points the people who are teaching the class have made. They are making copies of some charts that show the beginning of different doctrines, and have many scriptures they believe are solid proof that the doctrine of Oneness is right. As I said before I am not yet sure which is truth....I haven't ever had the belief of 3 beings making up ONE God challenged before so this interesting to me and I'm ready to see if the scriptures they have will point me in that direction. For the sake of the discussion, knowing they have charts, scriptures, and different books to try to show me Oneness is right I think I will take the side of the trinity and write down a lot of the scriptures some of you have posted you believe support 3 beings that make up God, hopefully looking at both sides and studying all the scriptures that go with them will lead me to know whats truth.
We will be studying this topic at least a few weeks. Those are just a few points the people who are teaching the class have made. They are making copies of some charts that show the beginning of different doctrines, and have many scriptures they believe are solid proof that the doctrine of Oneness is right. As I said before I am not yet sure which is truth....I haven't ever had the belief of 3 beings making up ONE God challenged before so this interesting to me and I'm ready to see if the scriptures they have will point me in that direction. For the sake of the discussion, knowing they have charts, scriptures, and different books to try to show me Oneness is right I think I will take the side of the trinity and write down a lot of the scriptures some of you have posted you believe support 3 beings that make up God, hopefully looking at both sides and studying all the scriptures that go with them will lead me to know whats truth.
G
Jesus, cardio, in His humanity (human side of Himself) on Earth was not greater than His Father . But He,was showing us the way Home, and, tbough Jesus,was fully man as you say, Scripture tells us Jesus was fully God, too. And, IF that don't rise you to understanding, look at the word 'manifest,' what does it mean when Scripture says, ”God was manifest in the flesh,” which means manifested or 'made' into a human form , with human feelings (Jesus wept), human anger (It was righteous anger but throwing the wares off of The moneychangers tables who were set up on the Sabbath was, indeed, anger), and, don't forget human-done miracles that were done by the power of Himself who.was fully man but fully God, TOO 
Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
B
My dear sister,
May the grace of God and the love of my Savior Jesus Christ be with you as with me; I write to you in the kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ in the hope that you too be blessed by all factors which are holy and true, and be overcome by the virtues God has made known to all His saints.
May you be encouraged to know that you have been upon my heart ever since I became aware of the thread at hand. Praying for you and praying for your circumstances have been quite a twinkle of sunshine to me. Therefore, the Lord has encouraged me to share with you these few thoughts.
Dear Sister, the Lord Jesus has promised you and I that, “When the Counselor comes, the One I [Jesus] will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of Truth who processed from the Father—He will testify about Me” (John 15:26).
In other words, the Holy Spirit of God comes directly from God the Father, AND the Holy Spirit of God has come for the purpose of providing the saints (including you) information about Jesus. God the Father and the Lord Jesus already know about each other; therefore, the Holy Spirit has come to leads us to all truth about the wonderful depths and lengths of God's Kingdom of Peace, Love and grace God has towards us. Remember, "Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the children of God!" (1John 3:1)
Now, how sweeter can it get, sister?
Furthermore, it is written that Creation tells of the glory of God. Jesus has come to testify about God, and now the Holy Spirit of God has come to testify about Jesus.
This means, you and I are to always be increasingly sensitive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God with respect to where exactly are we obtaining information regarding God the Father and our Lord Jesus.
As you may recall, the behavior of the original Church saints was of “those who glady received his [Peter’s] word were baptized, and that day about 3,000 souls were added to them [the 120 saints gather in the upper room]. And they continued steadfastly in the Apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayer” (Acts 2:41-42).
Similarly, we learn from the Apostle Paul that “our Gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit… and you became followers of us [the Apostles] and of the Lord having received the word… with joy of the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 1:5-6).
In conclusion, my sweet sister, may it be our heart’s desire to be fully believing these precious concepts that God is indeed guiding us closer to Him, by giving us salvation through Jesus Christ, and bringing us to the knowledge of Him and the Gospel by the power of the Holy Spirit.
May we be genuine followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, believing God at-face-value (as did the saints before us) by agreeing with all the meaningful and beautiful doctrine the God-Head has kindly expressed in the Bible, and may you and I, together with the congregation of the saints, be found worthy of the Lord upon His glorious return. Rejoice in the Lord always!
BananaPie
May the grace of God and the love of my Savior Jesus Christ be with you as with me; I write to you in the kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ in the hope that you too be blessed by all factors which are holy and true, and be overcome by the virtues God has made known to all His saints.
May you be encouraged to know that you have been upon my heart ever since I became aware of the thread at hand. Praying for you and praying for your circumstances have been quite a twinkle of sunshine to me. Therefore, the Lord has encouraged me to share with you these few thoughts.
Dear Sister, the Lord Jesus has promised you and I that, “When the Counselor comes, the One I [Jesus] will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of Truth who processed from the Father—He will testify about Me” (John 15:26).
In other words, the Holy Spirit of God comes directly from God the Father, AND the Holy Spirit of God has come for the purpose of providing the saints (including you) information about Jesus. God the Father and the Lord Jesus already know about each other; therefore, the Holy Spirit has come to leads us to all truth about the wonderful depths and lengths of God's Kingdom of Peace, Love and grace God has towards us. Remember, "Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the children of God!" (1John 3:1)
Now, how sweeter can it get, sister?
Furthermore, it is written that Creation tells of the glory of God. Jesus has come to testify about God, and now the Holy Spirit of God has come to testify about Jesus.
This means, you and I are to always be increasingly sensitive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God with respect to where exactly are we obtaining information regarding God the Father and our Lord Jesus.
As you may recall, the behavior of the original Church saints was of “those who glady received his [Peter’s] word were baptized, and that day about 3,000 souls were added to them [the 120 saints gather in the upper room]. And they continued steadfastly in the Apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayer” (Acts 2:41-42).
Similarly, we learn from the Apostle Paul that “our Gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit… and you became followers of us [the Apostles] and of the Lord having received the word… with joy of the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 1:5-6).
In conclusion, my sweet sister, may it be our heart’s desire to be fully believing these precious concepts that God is indeed guiding us closer to Him, by giving us salvation through Jesus Christ, and bringing us to the knowledge of Him and the Gospel by the power of the Holy Spirit.
May we be genuine followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, believing God at-face-value (as did the saints before us) by agreeing with all the meaningful and beautiful doctrine the God-Head has kindly expressed in the Bible, and may you and I, together with the congregation of the saints, be found worthy of the Lord upon His glorious return. Rejoice in the Lord always!
BananaPie
Jesus, cardio, in His humanity (human side of Himself) on Earth was not greater than His Father . But He,was showing us the way Home, and, tbough Jesus,was fully man as you say, Scripture tells us Jesus was fully God, too. And, IF that don't rise you to understanding, look at the word 'manifest,' what does it mean when Scripture says, ”God was manifest in the flesh,” which means manifested or 'made' into a human form , with human feelings (Jesus wept), human anger (It was righteous anger but throwing the wares off of The moneychangers tables who were set up on the Sabbath was, indeed, anger), and, don't forget human-done miracles that were done by the power of Himself who.was fully man but fully God, TOO Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
But that idea is but an overly zealous view of that verse, for we are also told, Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"
That fulness in Christ which is in Christ is why The Father sent him to us so that his fulness could come to be in us bodily.
For it is the power of the true image of God which man was created to be, in which all the fulness of God's righteousness dwells and sin cannot be.
Ephesians 4:14-15 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head [of the body], even Christ"
2 Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
And that begins by our growing to that fulness in us.
That is the Bibles true unadulterated message and it is wrong to apply that any other way.
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
I think that is a great start! I could give you a lot more, but I am busy trying to get our income tax done. (Canada deadline is tomorrow!).
As far as the word "beings" is concerned, that connotes a body to me. I think the word "persons" is a much better word to use. They are all unique individuals, all persons with special qualities and special duties. The word "being" is also very impersonal. They could be alien beings for all we know!! LOL
We are created in God's image - we are persons, and so is God. One, but three different persons. Sometimes using the wrong word obscures the truth, and makes the concept seem cold and wrong.
In the end, God is a mystery. We can never claim to understand him. However, the Trinity is just an attempt to give language to the inexpressible mystery of what God is like apart from to God's dealings with creation. It is an attempt to understand how God as a tri-personal being relates to the world, which in turn provides the biblical context for understanding how the persons of the Trinity relate to each other.
As far as manifestations of the three persons of the Trinity in relationship to the world, one only has to consider the crucifixion and resurrection to really see the importance of the Trinity. When Jesus died, the Father did not die. The power of the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus was willing to suffer pain and death for us, because he was obedient to the Father's will. I can't even fathom how you could have the resurrection if there was no trinity.
As far as the word "beings" is concerned, that connotes a body to me. I think the word "persons" is a much better word to use. They are all unique individuals, all persons with special qualities and special duties. The word "being" is also very impersonal. They could be alien beings for all we know!! LOL
We are created in God's image - we are persons, and so is God. One, but three different persons. Sometimes using the wrong word obscures the truth, and makes the concept seem cold and wrong.
In the end, God is a mystery. We can never claim to understand him. However, the Trinity is just an attempt to give language to the inexpressible mystery of what God is like apart from to God's dealings with creation. It is an attempt to understand how God as a tri-personal being relates to the world, which in turn provides the biblical context for understanding how the persons of the Trinity relate to each other.
As far as manifestations of the three persons of the Trinity in relationship to the world, one only has to consider the crucifixion and resurrection to really see the importance of the Trinity. When Jesus died, the Father did not die. The power of the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus was willing to suffer pain and death for us, because he was obedient to the Father's will. I can't even fathom how you could have the resurrection if there was no trinity.
@AgeofKnowledge - you have learned much and you are well on the way to being as full of hate and unpleasantness as others that pour out their feelings in such a way.
Constantine, the instigator of murder for disagreement, would be proud of you.
Just ignore countering an opinion (which I happen to disagree with too btw) and attack it as heresy.
Oh dear - I've just realised they do allow such hateful persons to be part of this forum a long time (I just saw your join date).
I'm not sure whether to stay tbh.
If hate can stay then how can Christ? and I want to be in a community of Christ here. Not hate.
I am wondering.
But just noticed all the things you posted are NOT Bible quotes - they're hate books by other people ?
You have to think on this - if a nazi wrote a book about black people would it be positive or balanced.
You read biased material you bolster your own previous opinion.
Sure, I disagree with oneness.
But just like I disagree with trinity, it was done without the teaching of any other person.
I would not NEED to refer to another man's book except to make it easier.
How about you? Learn doctrine without the teaching of man?
I'm guessing not.
My clue - you rely on them for your argument and yourself have the final say, which must be true - 'cause you said it - it's 'pure heresy'.
I expect you got that quote from one of your books.
Constantine, the instigator of murder for disagreement, would be proud of you.
Just ignore countering an opinion (which I happen to disagree with too btw) and attack it as heresy.
Oh dear - I've just realised they do allow such hateful persons to be part of this forum a long time (I just saw your join date).
I'm not sure whether to stay tbh.
If hate can stay then how can Christ? and I want to be in a community of Christ here. Not hate.
I am wondering.
But just noticed all the things you posted are NOT Bible quotes - they're hate books by other people ?
You have to think on this - if a nazi wrote a book about black people would it be positive or balanced.
You read biased material you bolster your own previous opinion.
Sure, I disagree with oneness.
But just like I disagree with trinity, it was done without the teaching of any other person.
I would not NEED to refer to another man's book except to make it easier.
How about you? Learn doctrine without the teaching of man?
I'm guessing not.
My clue - you rely on them for your argument and yourself have the final say, which must be true - 'cause you said it - it's 'pure heresy'.
I expect you got that quote from one of your books.
Jesus, cardio, in His humanity (human side of Himself) on Earth was not greater than His Father . But He,was showing us the way Home, and, tbough Jesus,was fully man as you say, Scripture tells us Jesus was fully God, too. And, IF that don't rise you to understanding, look at the word 'manifest,' what does it mean when Scripture says, ”God was manifest in the flesh,” which means manifested or 'made' into a human form , with human feelings (Jesus wept), human anger (It was righteous anger but throwing the wares off of The moneychangers tables who were set up on the Sabbath was, indeed, anger), and, don't forget human-done miracles that were done by the power of Himself who.was fully man but fully God, TOO Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
Jesus was showing us on Earth that God is greater than we humans. Also, Jesus had complete power over Satan in the wilderness, but He was showing His humanity there, letting Satan THINK he could get the man, Jesus, to kill Himself, to rebuke God, to have authority over God. But Jesus was not JUST a man in form, He was, He is, He always will be the Living God, Everlasting Father, Holy One (reference to He being the Holy Spirit) . ”He is all and all.” Don't try to completely understand Him, I don't have Scriptyre on the tip of my tongue but IT is,in His,Word. We CAN't fully understand God in our mere finite human forn, which dies say in 1 Cor. 2 that we di have 'the mind of Christ,' but we can't know God's thoughts. That would be unjust if some knew His thoughts and sone did not, therefore, none know .
Jesus was definitely proof to the sheep of Israel whose shepherds had neglected them that God was yet with them and had not abandoned them, just as "God with us" meant in Isaiah's day.
And at 1 Timothy 3:16 that word translated "manifest" Strongs 5319 says is, faneroo -- from 5318; to render apparent.
Men lacking spiritual eyes could not see God to know his righteousness and thus depended on their own righteousness which fell short and caused them to sin.
So God was made apparent in Christ that men could see God's righteousness through him.
5318 faneros -- from 5316; shining, i.e. apparent
As we see from the word which faneroo is born from, it means that Jesus shined God into the world through him as he could do as he is, Colossians 1:15a "... the image of the invisible God ..."
G
You're proving Christ , on Earth, showing us the way Home and the 'fruitful' living for how to get Home, WAS the visible image of the invisible God
. That's what I see, anyway. Anyway, cardio, read what anj says, it's good, and, Cobe really nails the Trinity too. Sometimes, my brother and friend, all that remains in front of us for dissection does not become clear instantly, I can't explain why but He can and will explain in His timing for that revelation of Father, Son, Holy Spirit ALL to be worshipped as 'one.' The Holy Spirit geys a free pass of worship, it's obvious that God borned Jesus witnout sperm and egg, He became human --to show us humanity side of God--by the birth of Jesus, from God sent in the way of a Holy Spirit seed. Simple really. All through Scripture, example after example of the three 'one.' The power of three, yet, One.
. That's what I see, anyway. Anyway, cardio, read what anj says, it's good, and, Cobe really nails the Trinity too. Sometimes, my brother and friend, all that remains in front of us for dissection does not become clear instantly, I can't explain why but He can and will explain in His timing for that revelation of Father, Son, Holy Spirit ALL to be worshipped as 'one.' The Holy Spirit geys a free pass of worship, it's obvious that God borned Jesus witnout sperm and egg, He became human --to show us humanity side of God--by the birth of Jesus, from God sent in the way of a Holy Spirit seed. Simple really. All through Scripture, example after example of the three 'one.' The power of three, yet, One.
Jesus Prays in the Garden of Gethsemane
"Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I go over there and pray.” [SUP]37 [/SUP]And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” [SUP]40 [/SUP]And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? [SUP]41 [/SUP]Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. [SUP]44 [/SUP]So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Then he came to the disciples and said to them,“Sleep and take your rest later on. See, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.[SUP]46 [/SUP]Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.” Matt. 26:26-46
This is the very amazing story of Jesus last hours before he was hauled away by soldiers. He was abandoned by his disciples, and he seemed to really need them, going back three times to talk to them about praying with him.
Jesus also talks to his Father "Your will be done." (vv.39, 42)
If there was only ONE, how could Jesus talk to his Father in heaven? How could he have such very human feelings, yet give himself over to the will of the Father?
Anytime Jesus prayed, he was the second person, praying to the first. Why would Jesus need to pray at all, if he was the same as the Father? Instead, Jesus spent hours and nights in prayer, to commune with his Father. He was like us in all respects, expect that he did not falter and fail. He was the only sinless one, and perfect before his Father. And he used the power of the Holy Spirit.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. In fact, I can do an amazing study in the Greek to show you that the way this is translates supports the Trinity, and not the JW version of Jesus NOT being God, or the Modalist viewpoint that there is only one. Please ask me, and I will find it and type it out.
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
The only Son from the Father. Two different persons!
"Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I go over there and pray.” [SUP]37 [/SUP]And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” [SUP]40 [/SUP]And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? [SUP]41 [/SUP]Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done.” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. [SUP]44 [/SUP]So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Then he came to the disciples and said to them,“Sleep and take your rest later on. See, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.[SUP]46 [/SUP]Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.” Matt. 26:26-46
This is the very amazing story of Jesus last hours before he was hauled away by soldiers. He was abandoned by his disciples, and he seemed to really need them, going back three times to talk to them about praying with him.
Jesus also talks to his Father "Your will be done." (vv.39, 42)
If there was only ONE, how could Jesus talk to his Father in heaven? How could he have such very human feelings, yet give himself over to the will of the Father?
Anytime Jesus prayed, he was the second person, praying to the first. Why would Jesus need to pray at all, if he was the same as the Father? Instead, Jesus spent hours and nights in prayer, to commune with his Father. He was like us in all respects, expect that he did not falter and fail. He was the only sinless one, and perfect before his Father. And he used the power of the Holy Spirit.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. In fact, I can do an amazing study in the Greek to show you that the way this is translates supports the Trinity, and not the JW version of Jesus NOT being God, or the Modalist viewpoint that there is only one. Please ask me, and I will find it and type it out.
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
The only Son from the Father. Two different persons!
Angela I would love it if you would type it out even if you don't want to post it in the thread you can send it to me in a message so I can study it! I'm sure it will help me while I'm studying this particular topic in the class I'm in, especially because the teachers say the original text proves oneness.
G
Two different persons, but One God, and, the Holy Spirit, is of God, as to put it, as Scripture does, the 'Spirit of God,' who is the Holy Spirit, as opposed to 'God' Himself who is 'spirit,' which is what Scripture tells us, too, somewhere in there, surely someone else can find it for you, ches, but 'God is spirit.'
My understanding of Oneness is that because there is one God, he first created the earth, then he came to earth and died and now he is spirit in heaven. This means the Father cannot talk to the Son or vise-versa.
My understanding of the Trinity is that a teacher can be "Father, Son and mentor" all at the same time and is ONE person.
An egg is an example of "Three in One" The egg is shell, yoke, and white and is ONE egg.
I do not believe in three separate individuals because God is ONE who is body, soul and spirit the same as we are and we are made in His image.
The examples of an egg or a teacher or a multitasking housewife do it for me.
My understanding of the Trinity is that a teacher can be "Father, Son and mentor" all at the same time and is ONE person.
An egg is an example of "Three in One" The egg is shell, yoke, and white and is ONE egg.
I do not believe in three separate individuals because God is ONE who is body, soul and spirit the same as we are and we are made in His image.
The examples of an egg or a teacher or a multitasking housewife do it for me.
Last edited:
Please elaborate sir. I fail to see what this has to do with the trinity of God and man.
Are you suggesting that the body and soul will be separated from the spirit and therefore will not or no longer be a triune being?
That is interesting in itself. I believe ecclesiastes is refering to the spirit of the breath of life spoken of in Genesis. When a person expires physically they 'give up the ghost'.
Gen_2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
I can't say I know much about that but I can show scripturally how man is made, and the physical body is not one of the three parts that man is made of. That is the fouth part.
Question. Was Jesus refering to the physical body that will perish in hell or the spirit body?
'Trinity and Oneness equals to Victory'
Peace be with you, GOD is still GOD, SPIRIT is still SPIRIT and JESUS is still JESUS. 'JESUS is same yesterday, today and forever.' When JESUS came out of the water after baptized, the HOLY SPIRIT descended on HIM in the form of a dove prophesies and witness by John the Baptist. And there was a voice from Heaven spoke; 'This is my dear SON, whom I AM well pleased.' GOD was still running the show in and from Heaven. JESUS the spirit man of flesh and blood was here on earth and the HOLY SPIRIT has entered JESUS of Nazareth. Can you understand about the three in action as one? Further more as HE is already ascended the Apostles proclaim about the Trinity the same.
'Everything must be said and done in the name of JESUS.' (Colossians 3;17) 'The HOLY SPIRIT do not speak on HIS own but only tell you all that HE heard ME say.' (John 16;13)
Oneness (Unity) is about the church of diversify culture and religion must be brought to one order in the teachings and understanding of Christ and the Apostles, to be the one minded and purposed united spirit human race. This is a given order by the Holy Trinity in the Holy Bible, taught to us by our Teacher the HOLY SPIRIT.
FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT and the Church (CHRIST is the Head and the Church is HIS body consist of members/parts). Example, examine our body parts? Do they always get instruction from you and me to move in order to complete a task that you have already learn to do? Do they have conflicts with each other or complains about one another? When one hurt do others hurt too? Don't they work orderly as they grow in learning and practicing every day?
The problem is one we have not completely given up our carnal nature (bury) by practicing CHRIST as we continue in HIS Words and the Apostles or another is we have gone back again to carnal nature by its practices and not continuing in the Word's of CHRIST. How can the church unite in oneness with the Trinity but only show signs of divisions?
Sadly everyone of us need help from the Great High Priest beside the FATHER in Heaven, praying and pleading for us. 'We must come boldly to the Throne of Grace where we will find help in all our weakness, from our LORD JESUS CHRIST who can sympathize on us, for HE was also tempted here on earth but HE never sinned.'
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless HIS Church in spirit and truth as they come to worship HIM. All Honor, All Praise and All Glory is always HIS forever and ever, Amen.
Peace be with you, GOD is still GOD, SPIRIT is still SPIRIT and JESUS is still JESUS. 'JESUS is same yesterday, today and forever.' When JESUS came out of the water after baptized, the HOLY SPIRIT descended on HIM in the form of a dove prophesies and witness by John the Baptist. And there was a voice from Heaven spoke; 'This is my dear SON, whom I AM well pleased.' GOD was still running the show in and from Heaven. JESUS the spirit man of flesh and blood was here on earth and the HOLY SPIRIT has entered JESUS of Nazareth. Can you understand about the three in action as one? Further more as HE is already ascended the Apostles proclaim about the Trinity the same.
'Everything must be said and done in the name of JESUS.' (Colossians 3;17) 'The HOLY SPIRIT do not speak on HIS own but only tell you all that HE heard ME say.' (John 16;13)
Oneness (Unity) is about the church of diversify culture and religion must be brought to one order in the teachings and understanding of Christ and the Apostles, to be the one minded and purposed united spirit human race. This is a given order by the Holy Trinity in the Holy Bible, taught to us by our Teacher the HOLY SPIRIT.
FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT and the Church (CHRIST is the Head and the Church is HIS body consist of members/parts). Example, examine our body parts? Do they always get instruction from you and me to move in order to complete a task that you have already learn to do? Do they have conflicts with each other or complains about one another? When one hurt do others hurt too? Don't they work orderly as they grow in learning and practicing every day?
The problem is one we have not completely given up our carnal nature (bury) by practicing CHRIST as we continue in HIS Words and the Apostles or another is we have gone back again to carnal nature by its practices and not continuing in the Word's of CHRIST. How can the church unite in oneness with the Trinity but only show signs of divisions?
Sadly everyone of us need help from the Great High Priest beside the FATHER in Heaven, praying and pleading for us. 'We must come boldly to the Throne of Grace where we will find help in all our weakness, from our LORD JESUS CHRIST who can sympathize on us, for HE was also tempted here on earth but HE never sinned.'
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless HIS Church in spirit and truth as they come to worship HIM. All Honor, All Praise and All Glory is always HIS forever and ever, Amen.
You're proving Christ , on Earth, showing us the way Home and the 'fruitful' living for how to get Home, WAS the visible image of the invisible God
. That's what I see, anyway. Anyway, cardio, read what anj says, it's good, and, Cobe really nails the Trinity too. Sometimes, my brother and friend, all that remains in front of us for dissection does not become clear instantly, I can't explain why but He can and will explain in His timing for that revelation of Father, Son, Holy Spirit ALL to be worshipped as 'one.' The Holy Spirit geys a free pass of worship, it's obvious that God borned Jesus witnout sperm and egg, He became human --to show us humanity side of God--by the birth of Jesus, from God sent in the way of a Holy Spirit seed. Simple really. All through Scripture, example after example of the three 'one.' The power of three, yet, One.
. That's what I see, anyway. Anyway, cardio, read what anj says, it's good, and, Cobe really nails the Trinity too. Sometimes, my brother and friend, all that remains in front of us for dissection does not become clear instantly, I can't explain why but He can and will explain in His timing for that revelation of Father, Son, Holy Spirit ALL to be worshipped as 'one.' The Holy Spirit geys a free pass of worship, it's obvious that God borned Jesus witnout sperm and egg, He became human --to show us humanity side of God--by the birth of Jesus, from God sent in the way of a Holy Spirit seed. Simple really. All through Scripture, example after example of the three 'one.' The power of three, yet, One.
Why do we need the shining to us of that perfect image of God's righteousness?
Why is it that "None can get to the Father except by way of the son."
Because we cannot get to the father by our own tainted ability to distinguish right and wrong. (Tainted righteousness)
We need Christ as that model and authority in our lives telling us how we ought to walk, as, Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Romans 3:21-22
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is [learned or acquired] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Matter not what group of flesh your lot is, we yet need to get out of Babylon and rise to the true church of the firstborn as in Hebrews 12.
Because we cannot learn God's righteousness while the spirit force regulating our minds is yet dwelling in reliance on the carnal.
Even for Adam before he sinned, it is a man's spirit which learns and then relays to his mind so that he can then use it to tow in the flesh.
It is about learning and doing, learning the untainted right things and doing them which our former blindness of self-righteousness before we died and gave ourselves to rise up and live to Christ prevented us from seeing.
And we must not allow debates such as this one to obscure that understanding from anyone, lest we be held most accountable in severe way.
Last edited: