666 Mark of Beast A non-left behind/dispensational/Hal Lindsey perspective

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1still_waters

Guest
#41
What is a left behind theology?

What things didn't line up, and by what did you attempt to level them with?


I hope you don't mind me asking you questions, i'm interested to see how you have come to believe what you believe.
Ok let me try this again.

The belief that someday in the future there will be a rapture of the church from the Earth. Followed by a 7 year tribulation where all chaos breaks out on the Earth, and some anti-Christ signs a 7 year covenant with Israel. The belief that thinks there will be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem with sacrifices offered. Followed by the return of Christ.

That rough outline, with some stuff I probably missed.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
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#42
Ok let me try this again.

The belief that someday in the future there will be a rapture of the church from the Earth. Followed by a 7 year tribulation where all chaos breaks out on the Earth, and some anti-Christ signs a 7 year covenant with Israel. The belief that thinks there will be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem with sacrifices offered. Followed by the return of Christ.

That rough outline, with some stuff I probably missed.

Thank you.

So you believe that Revelation is fulfilled, so all the above can not be future etc....

Where did you turn when the Bible did not line up? did you read other books?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#43
Thank you.

So you believe that Revelation is fulfilled, so all the above can not be future etc....

Where did you turn when the Bible did not line up? did you read other books?
I believe everything up to the 1000 year reference is fulfilled. We're not living in a restored creation obviously. Jesus is still coming back to restore creation.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#44
You say..
Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

I say..
Yup the time for his coming in judgement in that generation on Jerusalem that happened in ad 70. In matt 24 he said it would happen to that generation.

------

You say..
When I quote something that has not happened from revelation, you say the time is at hand so its fulfilled already but when you quote something that has not happened from revelation then it’s not fulfilled already. That makes your doctrine hypocritical dose it not?

Your doctrine is nonsense and not in the spirit of God.

I say...
The only thing I say that hasn't happened in revelation is Jesus coming back to restore creation. There are no contradictions or inconsistencies.

--------------
You say...
And as for the mark it being symbolic.

God seal on his people is symbolic not man’s mark

But the mark of the beast it’s the number of a man. It’s not Gods seal or number


And man in his history as put a mark on man lots of times, the Jews, the slaves’ cattle, and street gangs etc. etc. and so on.

The mark of the beast in the number of a man not the seal of God.

What’s wrong with good old fashion scripture and sticking to the script?

I say...
I can concede this point. It may have in fact been a literal mark. Either way it's already happened because..

1. Because Jesus said it would happen soon.
2. Because it's before the 1000 year marker that signifies the stuff after it won't happen soon, to them.
According to you the time is at hand back in 70 AD and you quoting Rv22:10.

So how can you quote from revelation Jesus coming in the future if prophecy in this book: is at hand in 70 AD..

You can quote from revelation for future events, but I cannot? Sorry but your doctrine sounds hypocritical.


There is a contradiction and you are the one contradicting yourself.


If you believe the prophecy in this book: is at hand in 70 AD.. then how can you quote this book for the future events.????


It seems like you are having trouble with Bible prophecy, I suggest you draw nigh to him and then he will draw nigh to you.


James4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


If the mark of the beast has already been, then do you have any proof in man’s history or Bible prophecy, showing this to be so?

And do you have any proof in man’s history or Bible prophecy

showing that he made fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth.??

And do you have any proof in man’s history or Bible prophecy, showing that they made an image to the beast already ,??

Or are you just making it up?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#45
And do you have any proof in man’s history or Bible prophecy, showing that they made an image to the beast already ,??
I need proof in man's history to verify the Bible?

It's true because JESUS said it would be soon to them. Jesus said it!

Also I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm saying everything up to the 1000 year reference is fulfilled. Therefore if I say stuff after the 1000 year reference is still to be fulfilled, then I am not contradicting.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#46
I need proof in man's history to verify the Bible?

It's true because JESUS said it would be soon to them. Jesus said it!

Also I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm saying everything up to the 1000 year reference is fulfilled. Therefore if I say stuff after the 1000 year reference is still to be fulfilled, then I am not contradicting.

So what was the mark of the beast?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#47
So what was the mark of the beast?
Something that happened around the time they wrote the book. Either a literal mark of some sort on the hand, or some symbolic thing where they were saying I ain't gonna worship the guy who is demanding worship.

Either way, I know it happened, because Jesus said to them it was going to happen them soon.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#48
Or a mark on the head....
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#49
I need proof in man's history to verify the Bible?

It's true because JESUS said it would be soon to them. Jesus said it!

Also I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

I'm saying everything up to the 1000 year reference is fulfilled. Therefore if I say stuff after the 1000 year reference is still to be fulfilled, then I am not contradicting.
Something that happened around the time they wrote the book. Either a literal mark of some sort on the hand, or some symbolic thing where they were saying I ain't gonna worship the guy who is demanding worship.

Either way, I know it happened, because Jesus said to them it was going to happen them soon.

I think people who have this understanding have been deceived and are willing to ignore scripture in favor of man made theology.

Your understanding will mask the beast's intentions, you will not know he is the beast because you believe that already happened....
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#50
I think people who have this understanding have been deceived and are willing to ignore scripture in favor of man made theology.

Your understanding will mask the beast's intentions, you will not know he is the beast because you believe that already happened....
I'm just taking Jesus at his word.
He said that would happen soon to the original readers of that letter.

Plus even if anti-christ is future, I should be so in His word I wouldn't worship some dude claiming to be God anyways.

If people who believe like me are indeed strong in the fact that Jesus is Lord and not some man, then a future fella tellin us he's God won't deceive us anyways. Cuz we all know Jesus is Lord, not some man claiming to be Jesus.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#51
I'm just taking Jesus at his word.
He said that would happen soon to the original readers of that letter.

Plus even if anti-christ is future, I should be so in His word I wouldn't worship some dude claiming to be God anyways.

If people who believe like me are indeed strong in the fact that Jesus is Lord and not some man, then a future fella tellin us he's God won't deceive us anyways. Cuz we all know Jesus is Lord, not some man claiming to be Jesus.

Yes, I agree that events that will come to pass, will wake people up to the fact that it is coming to pass, not already passed....

I see how the world is in line with the Bible.

Though the evil rebellion now pose as "good" and play the good cop ,bad cop with the "fall guy" they created, to carry out their evil plan.....

Oh how they underestimate Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah....
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#52
Yes, I agree that events that will come to pass, will wake people up to the fact that it is coming to pass, not already passed....

I see how the world is in line with the Bible.

Though the evil rebellion now pose as "good" and play the good cop ,bad cop with the "fall guy" they created, to carry out their evil plan.....

Oh how they underestimate Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah....
Understandable.

I disagree but understandable. :p
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#54
Yes, I agree that events that will come to pass, will wake people up to the fact that it is coming to pass, not already passed....

I see how the world is in line with the Bible.

Though the evil rebellion now pose as "good" and play the good cop ,bad cop with the "fall guy" they created, to carry out their evil plan.....

Oh how they underestimate Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah....
And really, I don't like to go back and forth with folks as much as I have been in this thread. I like to just present why I believe what I believe and just leave it at that, without all the titt-for-tatt back-and-forthing. Cuz usually at that point it's just two folks trying to say...NUH UH...I'M RIGHT!
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#55
And really, I don't like to go back and forth with folks as much as I have been in this thread. I like to just present why I believe what I believe and just leave it at that, without all the titt-for-tatt back-and-forthing. Cuz usually at that point it's just two folks trying to say...NUH UH...I'M RIGHT!

It matters not what we agree on, the truth remains the truth even if we do not believe it :)

I think my post is a better fit after what you wrote.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#59
Something that happened around the time they wrote the book. Either a literal mark of some sort on the hand, or some symbolic thing where they were saying I ain't gonna worship the guy who is demanding worship.

Either way, I know it happened, because Jesus said to them it was going to happen them soon.
The Mystery Number 666, who is it?
John now provides his readers with an identification of the Beast in a very different form:
Rev 13:16 - Rev 13:18 (NIV) 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.
John would not give the members of the seven churches a puzzle that they could not solve. Part II section which follows shows that 666 had nothing to do with the Pope of Rome. For John to make this apocalyptic message against the Pope and the Catholic Church would have made no sense to the first century Christians as there were no popes at this time in history. John made it clear that the “time” of the prophecy was “near”. It was not a distant 2000 years later.​
Titus Flavius Domitianus
MostBible expositors give us two candidates from Imperial Rome, Nero and Titus Flavius Domitianus. My choice is Domitian, (A.D. 81-96) the very Roman Emperor who was beginning to demand that his citizens worship him, virtually as a god, at the very time that John penned his prophecy. This simple historical detail is beyond all quibble. Most importantly, his official title in Latin was Imperator Caesar Domitianus Augustus Germanicus. This was rendered as Autokrator Kaisar Dometianos Sebastos Germanikos for his Greek-speaking subjects. And in turn, for their coins, this abbreviated to A.KAI.DOMET.SEB.GE=666 (1+20+1+10+4+70+40+5+300+200+5+2+3+5).

How could they possibly miss John’s point, or even look elsewhere, with the very coins with his picture jangling in their pockets had his picture! And of course Domitain's name added up to 666. It is significant that, contrary to every other explanation of 666 of which I am aware, the Domitian employs every last letter of his official title in Greek in summing to 666! One of the threats facing the NT Christians was economic. They would not be able to buy or sell. Rev 13:16 - Rev 13:17 (NIV) 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
http://www.usask.ca/antiquities/coins/domitian.html

Obverse: Head of Domitian laureate, encircled by CAES DIVI AVG VESP F DOMITIANVS COS VII.
Reverse: Minerva advancing brandishing javelin in right hand and holding shield in left hand. S C to left and right in field.
i thought this article was helpful in explaining it...

The Mark of the Beast