Acts 2:38 and baptism in Jesus name.

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Nov 30, 2012
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Christ said water and Spirit. He is the one who delineated the two as necessary and separate. He didn't say Spirit and Spirit, but water and Spirit. There can be only one interpretation that fits with the placement of that revelation by John. John wrote the meeting with Nicodemus after his chapter on Christ's baptism and first sign of water into wine. Christ had His disciples baptize. The Apostles continued to baptize with water after Pentecost. We cannot claim baptism with water is not necessary, when Scripture specifically states that it is.I don't know why the water is important. I do know that it changes us inherently in some way, because it wouldn't be important if it didn't.
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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Christ said water and Spirit. He is the one who delineated the two as necessary and separate. He didn't say Spirit and Spirit, but water and Spirit. There can be only one interpretation that fits with the placement of that revelation by John. John wrote the meeting with Nicodemus after his chapter on Christ's baptism and first sign of water into wine. Christ had His disciples baptize. The Apostles continued to baptize with water after Pentecost. We cannot claim baptism with water is not necessary, when Scripture specifically states that it is.I don't know why the water is important. I do know that it changes us inherently in some way, because it wouldn't be important if it didn't.
Well at least you know what you don't know. Water cannot be anything more than symbolic in the matter of salvation. Salvation is Spiritual and not earthly. If it were earthly water baptism would have some effect beyond making the outside clean. The eunuch in Acts gives the clearest instruction regarding water baptism. After Spiritual baptism is water baptism. Not essential is water baptism but certainly a step in submission to following the Lord. Holy Spirit baptism is received by all the moment they trust Christ to save them from their sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 30, 2012
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My point is whether it is a symbol of our obedience or part of the supernatural, water baptism is required by Christ. I should say it should be intended, many Christians were martyred prior to their baptism, but they all intended to do so, because it was commanded by God, which makes it a necessity.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Christ said water and Spirit. He is the one who delineated the two as necessary and separate. He didn't say Spirit and Spirit, but water and Spirit. There can be only one interpretation that fits with the placement of that revelation by John. John wrote the meeting with Nicodemus after his chapter on Christ's baptism and first sign of water into wine. Christ had His disciples baptize. The Apostles continued to baptize with water after Pentecost. We cannot claim baptism with water is not necessary, when Scripture specifically states that it is.I don't know why the water is important. I do know that it changes us inherently in some way, because it wouldn't be important if it didn't.
Have you considered "living water?" Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38, but of course that would not make any sense.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

In Jeremiah 2:13, God Himself is called the "fountain of living water." For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, And hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water. In Isaiah 12:3 we read, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation." The sons of Korah sang, "As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God (Psalm 42:1-2). "Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:17).
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Jesus didn't say anything about water baptism, in Jn 3: 5.
The Biblical meaning of water, is
The Spirit,
Titus 3: 5.
And the word.
Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18.
1 Pet 1: 22--23.
I see a connection here with spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation. This is signified, but not procured by the waters of baptism.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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Have you considered "living water?" Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38, but of course that would not make any sense.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

In Jeremiah 2:13, God Himself is called the "fountain of living water." For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, And hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water. In Isaiah 12:3 we read, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation." The sons of Korah sang, "As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God (Psalm 42:1-2). "Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:17).
Again, Jesus said water and Spirit, that denotes that the two are separate.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Again, Jesus said water and Spirit, that denotes that the two are separate.
So what is the water that Jesus gives us that we drink and shall never thirst and becomes in us a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life? Jesus connects living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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Yes, but Jesus says living water to the Samaritan woman, He doesn't say living water to Nicodemus, He said water and Spirit.
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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Yes, but Jesus says living water to the Samaritan woman, He doesn't say living water to Nicodemus, He said water and Spirit.
This is generally understood to be a reference or contrast of water as the natural birth which brings a soul into the world and the Spirit birth as necessary for the next. This is expanded in Jesus' lesson to Nicodemus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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My point is whether it is a symbol of our obedience or part of the supernatural, water baptism is required by Christ. I should say it should be intended, many Christians were martyred prior to their baptism, but they all intended to do so, because it was commanded by God, which makes it a necessity.
Hate to say it but you cannot be certain as to what they would have done or intended to do. You ascribe too much validity to church traditions and the writings of so called church fathers many of whom had quite colorful histories. There is no such thing as a supernatural water baptism. Again this is part of a rather colorful church tradition not based in truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 30, 2012
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Hate to say it but you cannot be certain as to what they would have done or intended to do. You ascribe too much validity to church traditions and the writings of so called church fathers many of whom had quite colorful histories. There is no such thing as a supernatural water baptism. Again this is part of a rather colorful church tradition not based in truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Except by your own philosophy, you therefore have nothing other than tradition to base your views on.
 
L

Linda70

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Water baptism does not nor has it ever saved anyone. It is the blood of Jesus Christ which saves the lost soul. Baptismal regeneration is a false teaching.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Acts 2:38

Satan's Favorite Bible Verse

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

The above verse of scripture is a favorite among many religious groups. One can hear it several times on Sunday morning radio programs, as well as from the pulpits of numerous groups, and it can be found in much religious literature. The verse is a favorite because, on the surface, it seemingly states that one must be baptized in order to be saved, and without baptism one is not saved. So, those who believe that water baptism is essential for salvation make it a regular habit of using Acts 2:38 as scriptural support.

The problem is that Acts 2:38 isn't the only verse in the Bible which deals with salvation. While many claim to "speak where the scriptures speak and remain silent where the scriptures are silent," they practically ignore most of the New Testament teaching on salvation. The only verses that such false teachers quote and reference are the ones they feel they can use to promote their "water gospel." The fact is that most of what the New Testament says about salvation doesn't include baptism at all! (John 5:24, John 11:25-26, John 14:6, Romans 4:5, Romans 10:9-13, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.), and the few places that do mention water baptism do not include it as part of one's salvation. Water baptism follows salvation as one of the first steps of obedience for the new believer.

In spite of this obvious truth, the cultists remain steadfast in their heresy, insisting that Acts 2:38 sets forth water baptism as a requirement for salvation. Thus, this verse of scripture has become Satan's favorite Bible verse. In fact, many are trusting water baptism alone for the salvation of their souls! Indeed, Satan has deceived multitudes by his perversion of Acts 2:38.

Rather than ignore Acts 2:38 by quoting "our favorite verses" instead, it is more appropriate to face this popular verse of scripture and see if the cultists are right in what they claim it teaches.

The Truth about Acts 2:38

First, please notice that verse 38 isn't the only verse in Acts 2. In Peter's message, a great deal was said before verse 38 came out of his mouth. In fact, he even told his listeners how to be saved before verse 38! In Acts 2:21, Peter quotes from Joel 2 and says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." His words preceding verse 38 were so convicting that his listeners were "pricked in their heart" in verse 37. So, to use verse 38 out of its context causes a misrepresentation of God's word. The verse does not stand alone, and, in fact, a totally different meaning is conveyed when one makes it stand alone.

Another error that many make with Acts 2:38 is the error of assumption. It is assumed that the word "for" must mean "in order to get." That is, being baptized "for" the remission of sins supposedly means to be baptized "in order to get" remission of sins. However, a closer look at the scriptures will reveal that this isn't the case at all.

Notice Luke 5:12-14: "And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him. And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." Jesus made this man clean in verse 13, yet in the next verse, verse 14, Jesus tells him to go offer a sacrifice "for thy cleansing" as a "testimony." Here the word "for" cannot mean "in order to get" because he had already gotten his cleansing in verse 13! It obviously meant "because of" his cleansing. If a man goes to jail "for stealing," then he goes there "because of" the stealing that he's already done, not "in order to get" a chance to steal again.

Some like to argue that the Greek word "eis" means "in order to," but this isn't always the case. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here." The Greek word for "at" is "eis." Does this mean that the men of Nineveh repented "in order to get" the preaching of Jonah? No, they repented "because of" the preaching of Jonah. So, even "the Greek" doesn't demand the popular interpretation of Acts 2:38. The word "for" can be used different ways, not just one, so it is wrong to assume that it must mean "in order to get" in Acts 2:38.


Continued here
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Yes, but Jesus says living water to the Samaritan woman, He doesn't say living water to Nicodemus, He said water and Spirit.
John 3:5 - ..unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into kingdom of God. Jesus did not say, "unless one is water baptized."

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.

So you see no connection at all with the water in John 3:5 and the water in John 4:14? In both verses, water is connected with eternal life.

Again, Jesus said water and Spirit, that denotes that the two are separate.
Who said they were the exact same thing?

John 3:5 - Born of water AND the Spirit.

Titus 3:5 - Washing of regeneration AND renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Is spiritual washing/purification of the soul accomplished through living water or ordinary H20?
 
Nov 30, 2012
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John 3:5 - ..unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into kingdom of God. Jesus did not say, "unless one is water baptized."

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.

So you see no connection at all with the water in John 3:5 and the water in John 4:14? In both verses, water is connected with eternal life.



Who said they were the exact same thing?

John 3:5 - Born of water AND the Spirit.

Titus 3:5 - Washing of regeneration AND renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Is spiritual washing/purification of the soul accomplished through living water or ordinary H20?
Truthfully, You are the one separating nature and supernature. I believe God is Powerful enough to do His will through anything, including nature. I don't need a miracle or sign to tell me that He is listening, or doing something. So, if ordinary water does something supernatural, even if I don't feel it, it is still done.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Christ said water and Spirit. He is the one who delineated the two as necessary and separate. He didn't say Spirit and Spirit, but water and Spirit. There can be only one interpretation that fits with the placement of that revelation by John. John wrote the meeting with Nicodemus after his chapter on Christ's baptism and first sign of water into wine. Christ had His disciples baptize. The Apostles continued to baptize with water after Pentecost. We cannot claim baptism with water is not necessary, when Scripture specifically states that it is.I don't know why the water is important. I do know that it changes us inherently in some way, because it wouldn't be important if it didn't.


The Bible, Greek and Biblical Greek scholars say the "Water" in John 3: 5, is the word,
Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18.
1 Pet 1: 22--23.

Jesus didn't say we must be born of the Spirit and BAPTISED IN WATER, He said Born of the Spirit and water.
Five times Jesus mentions either born again, Or born of the Spirit, In John 3: 3--8, And not ONE mention of water baptism.
You cannot make a doctrine of water baptism out of John 3: 3--8.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Truthfully, You are the one separating nature and supernature. I believe God is Powerful enough to do His will through anything, including nature. I don't need a miracle or sign to tell me that He is listening, or doing something. So, if ordinary water does something supernatural, even if I don't feel it, it is still done.
You have not given me direct answers to my direct questions in posts #127 and #133. So you believe the only "water" that is in connection with the new birth, washing of regeneration, salvation is water baptism? Do you believe the verses that I quoted to you about "living water" (John 4:10,14; 7:38-39) are irrelevant or do you believe that living water is water baptism?

Do you believe that "baptized by one Spirit into one body/drink into one Spirit is also a reference to water baptism? Do you believe that the "water" mentioned in Jeremiah 2:13, Isaiah 12:3 and Revelation 22:17 is also a reference to water baptism?
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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Except by your own philosophy, you therefore have nothing other than tradition to base your views on.
If it helps you to avoid the issue then that is where you will need to go. It's not about philosophy or tradition but the bible. The Holy Spirit does not guide men to Christ through philosophy or tradition only through the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Cor 12: 13, The rebirth and born again, are all the same experience.
The moment a person believes, repents and makes Jesus their Lord and saviour, They are born again.
Then they should grow in God and the things of God, And let the Spirit of the Lord change us from glory to glory. 2 Cor 3: 18.
Thank you, for that, appreciated, now in the moving on part their, I see I think i see what you are saying we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, is that it?

And if so, do you not know, there are many that are trying real hard to do this and inside are very miserable, hearing thoughts to give up, walk away, you can't achieve, they behind closed doors have lust thoughts that kill them inside and do not know who to talk to, in fear of?
Not ever coming to the truth, being convinced that they have to proof themselves? There are many a people striving so hard and inside are so miserable, Gandhi was one, Mother Teresa was another, I was one as well at one time, not ever at rest while I was busy doing the Gospel as prescribed by this world
We the people look at them and are wow!!!!!!!!!!!! look at them, our role models, and yet inside in them, so miserable, been there and was told by the enemy to just give up, God does not love you, if God did you would be able to do what you desire to do, and not get angry ever again.

I rejected that thought and still do to this day and emptied me out on the table, and stopped all my good works, and said Father I am the clay, mold me to what you want, I am undone, ready to be what you want me to be, and hjeard just love, at rest, just love all and be at rest in that.
Have not regretted this as I go on each and every day learning to remain the news boy Father made me to be, and stopped being the editor the world made me to be
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Yes, but Jesus said that we must be born of water and the Spirit. So, while we may be baptized in the Spirit, we must still be baptized with water. We must adhere to Him, and what the Apostles taught and did.
Baptized in water friend is baptized in the womb of Mom, when the water broke you were born in flesh, today this water that broke is called amniotic fluid, known as water then, in the day of Christ's time here on earth in the flesh

[h=3]John 3:5[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


[h=3]John 3:6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,493
224
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Christ said water and Spirit. He is the one who delineated the two as necessary and separate. He didn't say Spirit and Spirit, but water and Spirit. There can be only one interpretation that fits with the placement of that revelation by John. John wrote the meeting with Nicodemus after his chapter on Christ's baptism and first sign of water into wine. Christ had His disciples baptize. The Apostles continued to baptize with water after Pentecost. We cannot claim baptism with water is not necessary, when Scripture specifically states that it is.I don't know why the water is important. I do know that it changes us inherently in some way, because it wouldn't be important if it didn't.
Yes water Baptism continued on after the ascension of Christ and the day of Pentecost and still today goes on as a tradition and even a Law to some denominations, that one must be water Baptized to be saved.

Waht does peter say and discover about this water Baptism, that had never been done in the public prior to John the Baptist?
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter plainly states it is a good conscience to who? Father God, or the people of a particular denomination?
What is ones motive here; to get water Baptized is key you think?

What happened at Cornelius's house, when Peter spoke, not Peter per say, the Holy Spirit of truth spoke through him right?
What happened, were they Baptized while Peter spoke, had they been water Baptized yet?
Afterwards yes, but if they had not gotten water Baptized, would God have withdrawn this obvious gift?
So to be water Baptized after is a good conscience towards God then is it not, because why God has saved you by his Son who dead and rose again for you yes or no?
So Peter in his walk rehearsed what happened at Cornelius's house, and stated he sees truth, God gives us the free gift of new life and now has no:
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Proverbs 28:21 To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress.

So from the view point of Father after the cross of Son Father is pleased is Father not? So is anyone better than the other or does Father view us all the same as equal to Son, and even more so if we beleive Father in Father's done work through Son. Because by Son we are cleansed to be presented to Father are we not?
Father can see no sin can he? So what do you think Christ did, take them away, why?
So Father can deal with us on the basis of the new nature Father gave us, you think? Otherwise we would have to die every time we sin, get it I pray?

Also John's water Baptism, he brought out in public was why? What was his Job? Was it to announce Christ, when he saw the dove descend on Christ and heard Father speak this is my beloved Son
When John announced this to the first chosen, was John's job over, even though the Baptism continued on and even Paul said what Baptism in Acts to those that had not heard of the Spirit Baptism, in Christ's resurrected Spirit. they said all they knew was John's Baptism and wanted to know God



There is onoly one Baptism that gives life and that is Spirit of Father's Baptism, given to us if we believe Father, and does not make water Baptism bad, just shows what is what in truth to what
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Just as the Law was replaced with grace to appreciate, water was replaced with Spirit of Father in the resurrected Christ