81% of Christians think Christianity is following rules in the bible

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Sep 4, 2012
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Colossians 1:27
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles[/B]: which is Christ[/B] in you[/B], the hope of glory.

Paul said God wanted to make this mystery known to the gentiles. Not that the mystery was Christ int he gentiles.

The mystery is, CHRIST IN YOU.. It was a mystery to the jews as well. Thats why they could not see Christ dieing unti after his death when he opened their eyes, He made the mystery known to them first [/B]
That's not what the mystery doctrine is about. It is about two separate dispensations and gospels: the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews, and the gospel of grace for the gentiles. They call that rightly dividing scripture.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's not what the mystery doctrine is about. It is about two separate dispensations and gospels: the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews, and the gospel of grace for the gentiles. They call that rightly dividing scripture.

Thats called what? two seperate gospels? Was you not just attacking someone for believing in two gospels?

The gospel is the same for all. The kingdom of God is for all people. Jew and gentile. it always was mento to be that way, there is not one for one group and one for another.

Christ is in the jew as much as he is in the gentile. Yet before Christ, No Jew would have know that the gospel would be christ in you. They did not even believe he would die, thats part of the mystery.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Just a wee bit of research reveals that the term mystery doctrine is code language for the dispensational view of grace. We have seen elements of that here in those who reject the whole counsel of GOD and claim that what Jesus spoke to the apostles was for the Jews (the gospel of the kingdom), but what Paul wrote was a mystery not revealed to the other apostles and is only for the church (the gospel of grace). In other words, two gospels.
the word mystery mean or the term i should say ; Hidden or no yet revealed . Bible doctrine is not a mystery :) Doctrine" meaning teaching " is needed for the perfecting of the saints. Context to where in the bible is the word " Mystery" is used has to be kept in the context . but I could be wrong :)
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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So if one is truly saved (follower of Christ) then there should be some sort of change in them. We all agree that we as humans all fall short. But what about the self proclaimed Christians that see no change and they still live in their old ways? Are these false conversions or are they really saved and will still go to heaven? I don't buy into this do what you want and still be saved nonsense. I tend to believe that people that just show up on Sundays and don't give Christ a second thought the rest of the week are false Christians. Even if they said the sinners prayer (which I don't agree with) I still believe there is a false conversion.
So who are all these false Christians? I have never met one! I have met people who are on a journey with Christ. Christ is leading them, and changing them for HIS glory.

CS Lewis had a story in "Mere Christianity" about this. He posed the scenerio of two people recently saved. One, a young man, full of health and vigour, was saved with great joy. He had a charming and warm personality, and had never got involved in overt sins of the flesh, like drinking, carousing and so forth, so he looked good to outsiders.

When the young man was saved, it was glorious! He was the model of a perfect Christian to outsiders. And he was geniunely saved.

The second person who got saved was an old, bitter woman. She was ailing and lonely. She received Christ with great joy, too. But she was still in a lot of pain. And she hadn't yet gotten rid of her bitterness. (Although the Holy Spirit was certainly working on her!). So she looked like a sad, angry old woman from the outside. Yet, she read her Bible, and was amazed at the things she was learning. Her old habits were hard to put to the flesh so many questioned her salvation.

So who was really saved? The handsome, eager young man, a model of the Christian walk, or the crippled and bitter old lady?

I would have to say, BOTH!! God is always working in his children, and some of us have a longer way to go than others. We all deal with different issues, but the Holy Spirit knows how to turn it all around!

When I came to Christ 36 years ago, God did some amazing outward things to me. He delivered me totally from alcohol, which I can only praise God for all those years of not being under the inflluence of "false" spirits.

And he gave me a hunger to know him! I opened up the Bible I was already reading, and purposed in my heart to read the Bible once through a year, and I have been doing it with different reading programs, in different translations and languages ever since. Reading the word, showed me some areas where I was failing in major ways. Then I read this passage a few years after I was saved:

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:16-21


I was pretty proud of myself for not doing most of those things. (Pride much??)) But God humbled me and reminded me that much of the reason that I was not doing those things, was because of him!

But the "fits of anger?" Woe, betide!

It took 30 years for the Holy Spirit to effect that ingrained sin! And mostly I didn't get angry in public, well, except at referees in children's hockey games. (I know, huh!!) So I actually took anger management and learned some fleshly strategies to stop that! But at home, I was still losing my temper, often for virtually no reason.

And my husband was always there to call me out and tell me I wasn't saved because I lost my temper. Except, every time I examined my heart, I knew I was. I spent countless hours in prayer sought Christian counseling, but still it kept happening. Although, over time, I went from not even recognizing I was angry, to realizing I was angry after, to realizing when I was actually losing my temper. But still, the goal of purging that sin from life was not achieved.

So was I not saved? Or was Christ leading and guiding me?

Finally, in seminary, I took a course on Conflict Resolution. Very apt! One of the text books was "The Peacemaker" by Ken Sande. It had videos and I had to run a Bible study using the book. The book was just full of Scriptures. As I studied and taught, and listened to the stories of the other people, God gave me an incredible peace I had not known before.

The Holy Spirit truly healed me of everything I had learned in my very volatile birth famliy. I learned ways to cope with situations, using God's Word.

So was I now saved? Actually, that was just a part of my journey with Christ, that started in May 1980, on Pentecost Sunday! And I am always excited to see how the Holy Spirit will continue to lead and guide me and change me.

We simply are not perfect the day we are justified. Instead, we have a life time of sanctification, and we wil be perfected when Jesus returns, and we will see him face to face. I look forward to being glorified, but even more, I look forward to that day when I will see my Lord and Saviour stand before me, and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Man that section about Bible reading now adays being demoted to "soundbite journalism" hit me right in the gut. I do the same thing: flip open the bible, read a verse, think about it, onto the next thing. I haven't done a real devotional.....like ever. Well I guess that isn't true. I would write down my findings, think about them, read like a psalm or something, and then move one.

Sadly with my OCD I get nervous about doing extensive research, because delving into the Bible was what I would do when I was like obsessing and I would like spend hours and hours. There is nothing wrong with that, but it was like a, "I have to do this to be ok, to be Christian" sorta legalistic freakout.

I gotta have a better attitude. The opposite of hardly reading isn't ok either.
Steph, I had a pastor about 10 years ago, and he said the following, which I totally agree with.

He said God will use whatever you are reading that day in the Bible. So the best thing is just to read straight through the Bible, or use a reading plan that gets through the whole Bible, in a year or two.

I used to read 3 chapters of the OT, and 1 of the NT to get through the Bible in a year. And a psalm or more a day just because the psalms speak to me so much.

Some of the OT is hard going. The geneologies, the Levitical laws. But those names all have incredible meaning in Hebrew. So trust God, and read every word. One day, he will reveal the answers to the questions you have.

So it is not ever a matter of "flip open the Bible and hope for the best" versus "just research so deeply that you will be burned out in a week." Instead, just be consistent, read with a program that gets you through the Bible and God will bless you.

After 36 years as a Christian I have read the Bible about 45 times in English. I have also read it in French and German, and most of the NT in Greek, and some of the OT in Hebrew. And I am still learning and growing in God's Word. And loving God more and more!
 
Jan 27, 2013
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it was not jesus, who explained the change over, to a new covenant.

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant Hebrews 9 etc

when believer, at that time were given the name christian.

antichrist v christian believer.

plain to see, only if you know, how to define, the difference between jew, and a christian jew.
and what changed.

 
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G

ggs7

Guest
I think we should listen to scripture (the sword of the spirit/Ephesians 6:17 and for correction, for instruction/ 2 Timothy 3:16) of James , who was an apostle who was granted a blessing of seeing the transfiguration of Jesus, showed his love by dying for his faith and was promised (Matthew 19:28) a throne, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And the Son of God, Jesus , the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), who when he was tempted, said it is written. (Matthew 4:4)

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jamess 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

But Paul warns us (Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

Let us not boast of works but in the cross of Christ Jesus (Galatians 6:14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ or (1Corinthians 1:31) so that, according as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Does this 81% mean nominell christians ore born again christians?
If the person has been reborn from above then their spirit was made perfect,so then they are 100%Saved.IMO a Christian Is a person that follows CHRIST but to follow him In truth,a person has to be born of the spirit.

A person can try to be obedient from the flesh and not have a relationship with GOD.

GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped In spirit and In TRUTH.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
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I am not sure why you are having a problem with those verses or questioning me on them, I didnt write them.

It was posted this way, and I simply followed up behind





I simply added the verse right before it which speaks to their obedience in verse 12, verse 13 shows who is working that in them, that being God.

As he is speaking to such in Christ, by whom even Paul received grace and apostleship and for obedience to the faith among all nations. Likewise is he speaking to the same who are the called of Jesus Christ by whom also he says, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Paul speaks of the grace of God in him working and his striving according to the power that works within him.

Grace preceeds, as grace is given for the obedience of the faith. Paul is speaking of such in Jesus Christ which have always obeyed and not just doing an eyeservice (in his presence) but now moreso in his absense.

The verses shows it is God working within them to both will and do of his good pleasure (verse 12 highlights their obedience) Romans 15:18 speaks also of this obedience.

Verse 12 speaks of their obedience and the following shows where that willing to do his good pleasure come from, namely God working within them.

I dont understand your trouble with those verses, unless it is with the obedience part? But clearly it shows God doing the work in such so I am without understanding to what you are wrestling with in your mind concerning this.

Just as the context is the grace of God over here in Romans also, under which grace sin shall have no power over you

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you

You can go back and read the whole thing as I posted on this one before as well.



You will have to provide the verses you speaking of here so I know of which you are having a question concerning.

Your line of questioning is familar seeing I only posted two verses of scripture. Simply adding in the one showing obedience out of the same. But I honestly cannot understand how you get all those questions from those two verses showing God working in them.


Look at your post #103.

Then look at your post #109.

I was asking you questions on how you reconcile the two. I didn't mean for you to be upset.

I don't have any problems with any verses posted. But I know that I view them differently than some. So its nice to see that persons actual view of what the scripture means to them, that they have posted. I wouldn't think you are dumb or anything like that for stating your beliefs. I would only try to show what I think is the truth of scripture. Hopefully in a respectful manner.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
if there are no rules to follow then why did Jesus bother with all those years teaching?
 
Feb 11, 2016
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Look at your post #103.

Then look at your post #109.

I was asking you questions on how you reconcile the two. I didn't mean for you to be upset.

I don't have any problems with any verses posted. But I know that I view them differently than some. So its nice to see that persons actual view of what the scripture means to them, that they have posted. I wouldn't think you are dumb or anything like that for stating your beliefs. I would only try to show what I think is the truth of scripture. Hopefully in a respectful manner.
I am not upset at all, I am somewhat baffled at the questions directed me for posting the scriptures which I did and they were added in following my own response (off my own post) as you can see.

You can see in post #103 I state I am adding a few more verses in as I quote my own post and then in another post (post # 109) I am not quoting anyone but what I was doing was adding to Phil 2:13 (which was previously posted by another) the verse before it namely Phil 2:12 because I believe it shows a pretty good follow though there.

I just posted scriptures in each post see?





There isnt any commentary in either post from me so I dont see how you can view them differently (but if you do that is okay) but I didnt interject anything beyond posting what is written (as is clearly shown in the above).

I am not upset though, you seemed upset at something I posted.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
So who are all these false Christians? I have never met one! I have met people who are on a journey with Christ. Christ is leading them, and changing them for HIS glory.

CS Lewis had a story in "Mere Christianity" about this. He posed the scenerio of two people recently saved. One, a young man, full of health and vigour, was saved with great joy. He had a charming and warm personality, and had never got involved in overt sins of the flesh, like drinking, carousing and so forth, so he looked good to outsiders.

When the young man was saved, it was glorious! He was the model of a perfect Christian to outsiders. And he was geniunely saved.

The second person who got saved was an old, bitter woman. She was ailing and lonely. She received Christ with great joy, too. But she was still in a lot of pain. And she hadn't yet gotten rid of her bitterness. (Although the Holy Spirit was certainly working on her!). So she looked like a sad, angry old woman from the outside. Yet, she read her Bible, and was amazed at the things she was learning. Her old habits were hard to put to the flesh so many questioned her salvation.

So who was really saved? The handsome, eager young man, a model of the Christian walk, or the crippled and bitter old lady?

I would have to say, BOTH!! God is always working in his children, and some of us have a longer way to go than others. We all deal with different issues, but the Holy Spirit knows how to turn it all around!

When I came to Christ 36 years ago, God did some amazing outward things to me. He delivered me totally from alcohol, which I can only praise God for all those years of not being under the inflluence of "false" spirits.

And he gave me a hunger to know him! I opened up the Bible I was already reading, and purposed in my heart to read the Bible once through a year, and I have been doing it with different reading programs, in different translations and languages ever since. Reading the word, showed me some areas where I was failing in major ways. Then I read this passage a few years after I was saved:

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:16-21


I was pretty proud of myself for not doing most of those things. (Pride much??)) But God humbled me and reminded me that much of the reason that I was not doing those things, was because of him!

But the "fits of anger?" Woe, betide!

It took 30 years for the Holy Spirit to effect that ingrained sin! And mostly I didn't get angry in public, well, except at referees in children's hockey games. (I know, huh!!) So I actually took anger management and learned some fleshly strategies to stop that! But at home, I was still losing my temper, often for virtually no reason.

And my husband was always there to call me out and tell me I wasn't saved because I lost my temper. Except, every time I examined my heart, I knew I was. I spent countless hours in prayer sought Christian counseling, but still it kept happening. Although, over time, I went from not even recognizing I was angry, to realizing I was angry after, to realizing when I was actually losing my temper. But still, the goal of purging that sin from life was not achieved.

So was I not saved? Or was Christ leading and guiding me?

Finally, in seminary, I took a course on Conflict Resolution. Very apt! One of the text books was "The Peacemaker" by Ken Sande. It had videos and I had to run a Bible study using the book. The book was just full of Scriptures. As I studied and taught, and listened to the stories of the other people, God gave me an incredible peace I had not known before.

The Holy Spirit truly healed me of everything I had learned in my very volatile birth famliy. I learned ways to cope with situations, using God's Word.

So was I now saved? Actually, that was just a part of my journey with Christ, that started in May 1980, on Pentecost Sunday! And I am always excited to see how the Holy Spirit will continue to lead and guide me and change me.

We simply are not perfect the day we are justified. Instead, we have a life time of sanctification, and we wil be perfected when Jesus returns, and we will see him face to face. I look forward to being glorified, but even more, I look forward to that day when I will see my Lord and Saviour stand before me, and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Lots and lots and lots of Good stuff Sister!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Luke 25 -28

[SUP]25 [/SUP]On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

[SUP]27 [/SUP]He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[SUP][c][/SUP]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

those sound like rules.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
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Luke 25 -28

[SUP]25 [/SUP]On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

[SUP]27 [/SUP]He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[SUP][c][/SUP]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

those sound like rules.
They are rules.

And you have to obey them perfectly your whole life in order to earn eternal life.

If you find that you fail at the rules and you aren't earning eternal life by your own obedience, there is a Saviour that you can call on, if you believe.

Read Matthew 5 to see how the rules are applied. Read Matthew 11:28-30 to find out more about this Saviour.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Amen.

Being alive is breathing, eating, sleeping. Gravity is both a rule or reality, which can kill us and keep us alive.
The problem has never been about the rules but about love and relationships.

Jesus is saying learn of me, walk with me. Those who are called will walk as they should.
Some here think it is their job to condemn people and their faith in Christ, not realising a good relationship is only understood by the two people involved in it.
 
G

GraceAmbassador

Guest
There was a time when it was right to refuse bacon, pork chops, and crab rangoon (Lev 11),
BUT NOW is not that time.
At this time, every creature of God is good to eat (1 Tim 4:4-5).

There was a time when it was right to keep Sabbaths, Passover, and new moons,
BUT NOW is not that time either (Col 2:16-17).

There was a time when it was right to preach the law for righteousness (Deu 6:25),
BUT NOW is not that time (Rom 3:26, 10:4).

There will be a time when it is right to preach the kingdom of God come to earth,
BUT NOW is not the time (Gal 1:4; 1 Cor 2:2).

There are many right teachings in the Bible made wrong by doing them at the wrong time.
It is good to know what is God's will, but more so at what time his will needs be done (1 Pet 1:11).
If the time is now, then do it. If it is not, then you would be wrong to.


Warren Wiersbe said it right: "Obeying the will of God involves not only doing the right thing in the right way for the right motive, but it also means doing it at the right time."
Though we might have a heart of submission to do anything the Lord instructs, it is impossible to do everything the Bible instructs. The Bible contains God’s instructions to various people over the course of thousands of years. It is impossible to do everything the Bible says to do. No one ever has.

Everyone chooses which part of the Bible has more weight. They choose to obey that. Everyone must choose. Those who claim not to pick and choose are simply ignoring the differing instructions in the 66 book inspired Bible.

What doctrinal camp you belong to will depend upon how you choose.

Mainline Christians may choose the red letters, because they were the words of Jesus. Yet, wasn’t all of scripture inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16)? Most of our chief doctrines are found in the black letters.

Pentecostals try to “do more” of the Bible and choose Acts 2 as their place of instruction. After all, the disciples had a ministry after Jesus resurrection which began at Pentecost.

Dominionists desire to “take back America” and so they choose to use the dominion language of the law given to God’s only nation: Israel.

Tithers who need some extra money in a recession choose to teach Old Testament curse passages to milk their members.

When churches try to “seek a vision” from God a seemingly random verse from the Bible is stripped from its context and used as a driving force for some social action.

Why did they choose that verse? Instead of a Biblical reason the answer is typically something mystical and secretive such as, “the Lord led me”, or “it was laid upon my heart”.

How to Choose

Since no one can obey everything in the Bible everyone must choose. How do we choose rightly? Instead of flipping the doctrinal coin, here is a better way.

After reading a passage of the Bible ask, “who is speaking?” There are times in the Bible that Satan’s lies are recorded. Avoid participating in his lies.

Secondly, ask, “to whom are they speaking? Do I fit in the audience?” God gave instructions to Isaiah to preach without clothes (Isaiah 20:2). You are not Isaiah. Leave those instructions alone.

Finally, ask, “Are there any later instructions from the Lord that replace this instruction?”

You will be amazed at the problems this resolves. Everyone divides or chooses which parts of the Bible they will obey. This method will help you to rightly divide.

THE BEST CHOICE

Asking these questions of the Bible passages will lead you to one place: Paul’s epistles.

Jesus appeared to Paul and taught him the manifold wisdom of God
(Gal 1:1, 11, Eph 3:10). His epistles contain instructions from the Lord Jesus.

While most of your Bible was written specifically to the nation of Israel, the Lord gave Paul instructions specifically for the Gentiles (Eph 3:1).
He was titled the “apostle of the Gentiles” (Rom 11:13).
You are in this audience.

The Lord Jesus revealed the mystery of himself to Paul after the red letters and after Pentecost. Paul claims to be the last person to see the resurrected Lord (1 Cor 15:8). He was given the preaching of the cross and the gospel of the grace of God as a pattern for our present salvation (1 Tim 1:15-16).

There has been no further revelation that has superseded the instructions God inspired in the Pauline epistles.

Everyone chooses which part of the Bible to obey. Contextual guidelines lead you to only one conclusion.

Choose the only place you’ll find the teaching of Jesus Christ to Gentiles according to the revelation of the mystery (Rom 16:25).
Romans through Philemon, the 13 books.
It contains the doctrines that work today.


graceambassadors.com
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?


We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?


Wow, good post. How did I miss this thread??
:confused: :D
 
I

ib4gzus

Guest
It's not my website.. just the source which i used for my reply.