THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[dcontroversal]

The New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), who is Christ Jesus.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Lamb, Christ

If Jesus is the head, and the church is the body, of Christ (Eph 1:22-23),
then you've made the New Jerusalem the bride of Christ's body, the church.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Church

But in Heb 12:22, the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God is the church (v. 23).
In Gal 4:25-26, the Jerusalem that is above is the mother/church (NT believers).

So the bride is marrying herself?

New Jerusalem = Bride of New Jerusalem

This interpretation of prophetic riddles leads to bizarre contra-Biblical conclusions.

C'mon, guys, surely you can see this interpretation of prophetic riddles is nonsense

according to the clear teaching of the NT.

I agree with (The church, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles til the end of time)

You know, that is the conclusion that I have come to. The unification of God with his people in New Jerusalem. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts!

Re-read my post about what I believe and please don't ascribe something to me that I did not say...pay particular attention with the words (with) and (in).

UNIFICATION WITH HIS PEOPLE IN NEW JERUSALEM


"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."
UNIFICATION WITH HIS PEOPLE IN NEW JERUSALEM

I have said nothing different...The two will become one flesh...Unification with HIS PEOPLE---->IN NEW JERUSALEM

 

[watcher2013]

Heb 12:22-23 disagrees with you.

"You have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God, to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn,"

as does Gal 4:25-26:

"the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she
(not Hagar, represented by the present Jerusalem, who is in slavery with her children)
is our mother."

Paul did not got it wrong...maybe you did
Before you disagree, I think you should consider the verses you quoted:
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Here's the list of above:
1. Mount Sion
2. The city of the living God
3. Heavenly Jerusalem
4. Innumerable company of Angels
5. General assembly and church of firstborn
6. God the judge of all
7. Spirits of just men made perfect
8. Jesus the mediator of new covenant
9. The blood of sprinkling
These verses do not mean that Heavenly Jerusalem is the church…neither the innumerable company of angels nor God the judge of all…
But, the above list is what we look out for…and come to…to endure the race and trials in our struggle against sin…Heb 12:1-4
Now regarding Gal 4:25-26, that Heavenly Jerusalem is our spiritual mother is certainly true..., That is why even more, we cannot be the Bride for She is, the New Jerusalem ,the Bride

 

[Elin]

The new Jerusalem is not a new church, it is a city and described and measured as a city. Rev 21.22 says it DOES NOT have a temple, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. The new Jerusalem sits on the new earth. So because of Rev 21.22 we know New Jerusalem is not a temple or a "church". [/quote
"A church" is not "the church," the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).

I see no evidence in EPH 5 that the church is compromised of Jews and Gentile believers.

So Eph 3:6 and Gal 3:26-29 don't count?

Be mindful not to fall into the trap that is replacement theology!

Are you aware that Jesus is the author of "replacement theology"?

"Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken from you

and given to a people who will produce its fruit." (Mt 19:43)

The kingdom is under new management, which has replaced the old management.

 

[Elin]

Hey Elin, you seem to know a bit so I will ask..do you know the difference between present tense and past tense.

Paul used a (be) verb as in... (is) a profound Mystery, not that it (WAS) a profound mystery.

You are still using "mystery" in its secular sense, of knowledge withheld from understanding,
while in the NT it is truth revealed, made known, manifested, preached, understood. (Col 1:26)

However, whatever the tense, it does not alter its meaning in the following:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."

The church is the body of Christ in the two-in-one-enfleshment of the marital union.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are still using "mystery" in its secular sense, of knowledge withheld from understanding,
while in the NT it is truth revealed, made known, manifested, preached, understood. (Col 1:26)

However, whatever the tense, it does not alter its meaning in the following:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."

The church is the body of Christ in the two-in-one-enfleshment of the marital union.

Really...what ever the tense? That's not very biblical as God inspired the tense of the verb......

and will add, no..I am using it in the biblical sense!

 

[Elin]

Jesus is the Head...
the Church is the Body:
The new Jerusalem is the Bride....

The New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), who is Christ Jesus.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Lamb, Christ

If Jesus is the head, and the church is the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23),
then you've made the New Jerusalem the bride of Christ's body, the church.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Church, the body of Christ

But in Heb 12:22, the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God is the church (v. 23).
In Gal 4:25-26, the Jerusalem that is above is the mother/church (NT believers).

So New Jerusalem, the bride, is marrying herself, the church?

New Jerusalem = Bride of New Jerusalem

This interpretation of prophetic riddles leads to bizarre contra-Biblical conclusions.

C'mon, guys, surely you can see this interpretation of prophetic riddles is

nonsense according to the clear teaching of the NT.

I agree with (The church, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles til the end of time)

You know, that is the conclusion that I have come to. The
unification of God with his people in New Jerusalem. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts!

Okay, but note that Scripture doesn't present the union of God with his people, in the New Jerusalem,
it presents God's union with the New Jerusalem, his people, in a marriage (Rev 21:2, 9, 19:7).

It's the same thing Paul reveals in Eph 5:31-32:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."

 

[Elin]

Paul did not got it wrong...maybe you did
Before you disagree, I think you should consider the verses you quoted:
Here's the list of Heb 12:22-24:
1. Mount Sion
2. The city of the living God
3. Heavenly Jerusalem
4. Innumerable company of Angels
5. General assembly and church of firstborn
6. God the judge of all
7. Spirits of just men made perfect
8. Jesus the mediator of new covenant
9.The blood of sprinkling
These verses do not mean that Heavenly Jerusalem is the church…neither the innumerable company of angels nor God the judge of all…

It does in the context of Heb 12:14-29,

where the writer is comparing the OT which the Hebrew Christians have left
to the NT church to which the Hebrew Christians have come.

Now regarding Gal 4:25-26, that Heavenly Jerusalem is our spiritual mother is certainly true..., That is why even more, we cannot be the Bride for She is, the New Jerusalem ,the Bride

It's an analogy, not a doctrinal statement,

wherein the heavenly Jerusalem represents the free in Christ (the church of NT believers),
while the earthly Jerusalem represents the slaves to the law (OT believers, under the law).

 

[Elin]

Clean-up re-post:

The new Jerusalem is not a new church, it is a city and described and measured as a city. Rev 21.22 says it DOES NOT have a temple, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. The new Jerusalem sits on the new earth. So because of Rev 21.22 we know
New Jerusalem is not a temple or a "church".

"A church" is not "the church," the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23).

I see no evidence in EPH 5 that the church is compromised of Jews and Gentile believers.

So Eph 3:6 and Gal 3:26-29 don't count?

Be mindful not to fall into the trap that is replacement theology!

Are you aware that Jesus is the author of "replacement theology"?

"Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken from you

and given to a people who will produce its fruit." (Mt 19:43)

The kingdom is under new management, which has replaced the old management.

 

[watcher2013]

It does in the context of Heb 12:14-29,

where the writer is comparing the OT which the Hebrew Christians have left
to the NT church to which the Hebrew Christians have come.

The context began at the verse 1, encouraging us to run the race... to endure our struggle against sin...then he compare the old testament character to give emphasis on the disciplinary action of our God so we may not lose hope like the others...because we come differently...we come to the "list" that makes us stronger even stronger/determined...
The verse is not a definition of Heavenly Jerusalem as the church...

It's an analogy, not a doctrinal statement,

wherein the heavenly Jerusalem represents the free in Christ (the church of NT believers),
while the earthly Jerusalem represents the slaves to the law (OT believers, under the law).

It is very specific..the heavenly Jerusalem is our Spiritual mother...
Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery along with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, and she is our spiritual mother.

Having said that...even if paul was figuratively using the two...the two represents two covenants as per the earlier verse...

 

[The_highwayman]

So Eph 3:6 and Gal 3:26-29 don't count?


Are you aware that Jesus is the author of "replacement theology"?

"Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken from you

and given to a people who will produce its fruit." (Mt 19:43)

The kingdom is under new management, which has replaced the old management.

I think you meant Mt 21.43, in that verse, Jesus was telling the Pharisees, that they lost their job, not that the people of Israel lost their covenant with God. You cite a verse taken entirely out of context and are cherry picked verses by mans doctrine to bolster his own doctrine. Jesus would never call the Father a liar as you do with your statment that Jesus was the author of replacement theology. The church is not Israel and Israel is not the church. The Bible is all about covenants and the covenants GOD made with Israel are not replaced and given to the gentiles just because Israel rejected Messiah and Mt 21.43 is not even backing you up, because it was part of a parable Messiah was giving the pharisee's!

You seem to use out of context verses to support your arguments. What you need to do is understand proper & very basic Bible Hermeneutics, which tells us that when reading a passage we must:

1) Understand who is talking
2) Understand who is the person talking to
3) Understand the subject matter of who is talking
4) never read the Bible as a linear book, chapters and verses are for our benefit, but the Bible was not written in that format.
5) apply proper rules of grammar,punctuation, including and most importantly paragraph breaks.

Of all verses you have cited to defend your arguments you have ignored number 5 in all verses, you also have ignored 1-3.
you seem to only be parroting out of context verses attached to doctrine and not even attempting to understand.

 

[Elin]

Are you aware that Jesus is the author of "replacement theology"?

"Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken from you

and given to a people who will produce its fruit." (Mt 19:43)

The kingdom is under new management, which has replaced the old management.

I think you meant Mt 21.43,

Oops! Yeah, it's Mt 21:43.

Jesus was telling the Pharisees, that they lost their job, not that the people of Israel lost
their covenant with God.

I said nothing about covenant.

You seem to use out of context verses to support your arguments. What you need to do is understand proper & very basic Bible Hermeneutics, which tells us that when reading a passage we must:

1) Understand who is talking
2) Understand who is the person talking to
3) Understand the subject matter of who is talking
4) never read the Bible as a linear book, chapters and verses are for our benefit, but the Bible was not written in that format.
5) apply proper rules of grammar,punctuation, including and most importantly paragraph breaks.

Of all verses you have cited to defend your arguments you have ignored number 5 in all verses, you also have ignored 1-3.
you seem to only be parroting out of context verses attached to doctrine and not even attempting to understand.

Highway guy, you have provided no demonstration of your assertions, so your assertions are without merit.

 

[The_highwayman]

Oops! Yeah, it's Mt 21:43.


I said nothing about covenant.


Highway guy, you have provided no demonstration of your assertions, so your assertions are without merit.

The fact you said nothing about covenant, prove my point and are a complete demonstration of my assertions.

 

[Elin]

The context began at the verse 1, encouraging us to run the race... to endure our struggle against sin...then he compare the old testament character to give emphasis on the disciplinary action of our God so we may not lose hope like the others...because we come differently...we come to the "list" that makes us stronger even stronger/determined...

Hebrews is about belief.

The context of the book is to Hebrew Christians who were considering returning to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.

The letter is to explain the consequences of such an action, and to warn them against doing so.

Heb 12:22-24 is within the context of the fourth of four warnings (4:1-13, 5:11-6:12, 10:19-39,
12:14-28) not to lapse back into Judaism.

The verse is not a definition of Heavenly Jerusalem as the church...

Agreed, it is an analogy only.

even if paul was figuratively using the two...the two represents two covenants as per the earlier verse...

Agreed.

 

[Elin]

The fact you said nothing about covenant, prove my point and are a complete demonstration of my assertions.

Highway guy, that is non-responsive and actually demonstrates none of your assertions.

 

[watcher2013]

Hebrews is about belief.

The context of the book is to Hebrew Christians who were considering returning to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.

The letter is to explain the consequences of such an action, and to warn them against doing so.

Heb 12:22-24 is within the context of the fourth of four warnings (4:1-13, 5:11-6:12, 10:19-39,
12:14-28) not to lapse back into Judaism.

Elin, there is no need to go all through that...Hebrews talks a lot of topic, including faith in Hebrews 11...Hebrews 12 is looking forward to the goal....enduring because of what lies ahead...

Agreed, it is an analogy only

It is good that you agreed, but it is not an analogy of the church (if that is what you refer to).

All I can say is, look the Church as the Body and not the Bride, and you will have a new perspective of the bible, and it will even change your view about end times study.

 

[dcontroversal]

and the two shall become one flesh.

Your point is? Maybe elaborate a bit....

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

excuse me?

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

the church is the bride...

New Jerusalems dont make themselves ready

what religion are you?

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

the 144,000 saints are the bride of christ
I already posted this once
look it up

 

[dcontroversal]

excuse me?

What...you have gas or something?