ONCE saved always saved!.

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Richie_2uk

Guest
#1
ONCE saved always saved!. That is the cry so often heard from many of the pulpits today. "I can do whatever I want, as long as I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior. Why I could go out and mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and if I were to die at that very moment, I would be saved." Many people believe this teaching today, but is it true? Once we have accepted Jesus as our personal Savior, can we go on living like the world, in open, rebellious sin and still be saved?

Most people who believe the above teaching once saved always saved will quote the following Bible verse as proof: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38, 39.

Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. But does it say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? In fact, is this verse talking about salvation or eternal life at all? No, this verse is clearly talking about God's unconditional love towards man, not unconditional salvation. Salvation is conditional! You might also notice that the word "sin" was not included in the list of things which are unable to separate us from the love of God.

If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? Here is an aswer "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

What was the very first lie recorded in the Bible? It was the devil, speaking through the serpent when he was talking to Eve. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4. The devil has been deceiving people ever since with this lie. "Once saved always saved", is another lie from Satan and people have been believing it for years and will be sadly surprised in the judgment.


 

violakat

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2014
1,236
21
38
#2
Let me ask you this, do you believe that man can be resaved if he loses his Salvation?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,555
17,025
113
69
Tennessee
#3
ONCE saved always saved!. That is the cry so often heard from many of the pulpits today. "I can do whatever I want, as long as I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior. Why I could go out and mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and if I were to die at that very moment, I would be saved." Many people believe this teaching today, but is it true? Once we have accepted Jesus as our personal Savior, can we go on living like the world, in open, rebellious sin and still be saved?

Most people who believe the above teaching once saved always saved will quote the following Bible verse as proof: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38, 39.

Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. But does it say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? In fact, is this verse talking about salvation or eternal life at all? No, this verse is clearly talking about God's unconditional love towards man, not unconditional salvation. Salvation is conditional! You might also notice that the word "sin" was not included in the list of things which are unable to separate us from the love of God.

If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? Here is an aswer "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

What was the very first lie recorded in the Bible? It was the devil, speaking through the serpent when he was talking to Eve. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4. The devil has been deceiving people ever since with this lie. "Once saved always saved", is another lie from Satan and people have been believing it for years and will be sadly surprised in the judgment.


Hell is eternal separation from the love of God. God is love so His love is unconditional. This verse you stated is conclusive in guaranteeing eternal salvation. The "us" that Paul was referring to is us as born again believers in Jesus and the belief in the promise that He made. Even a believer will often stumble and fall. When that happens the believer ask for forgiveness in order to be reconciled to the Lord to walk in His light, and is not attempting to renew his salvation.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#4
Let me ask you this, do you believe that man can be resaved if he loses his Salvation?
Regarding losing our salvation: Salvation is offered us purely through Jesus’ death on the cross for us, as a gift of His grace. We, through Christ alone,from the moment we receive Him into our lives, become His child, declared righteous,forgiven, sanctified in His eyes, and have entered a relationship with Him which He intends to be permanent, with the promise of eternal life. This does not hinge on our personal holiness, or levels of faith, or sacrifices, or good works or religious acts.

Salvation through Jesus is purely God’s gift, received once by faith. At that moment we have crossed over from death into life, free from the condemnation of the law and placed under His grace, transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, no longer enemies of God but His child, sealed with the Holy Spirit within us, He has become our God and we His child, and we are at peace with God, reconciled to Him.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is the judge, not us. Typically when someone asks this question it is in regards to someone else, not themselves. And, though I’ll give you what I see in Scripture, it is not our role to judge or condemn someone else. God has all the information regarding their heart, their sincerity in receiving Him or not, their sanctification and timeline for that, His plan for their life.


How Christians grow in their relationship with God and in their outward lifestyle varies a lot. I was deeply in love with God from the moment I received Him, but it was a couple of years before God straightened out some external behavior. So, to other Christians who didn’t know me, I could “appear” to not be a real Christian. God sanctifies us, changes us, on His time table and it would be a huge disservice to a Christian to bring their eternal security into question over behavior that we judge to be contrary to how a Christian should live.

Eternal life is a free gift. When someone receives Jesus Christ, wanting to be a follower of Him,Jesus enters their life and they come into a relationship with Him. If they seem to not grow or turn from Him, they certainly lose out on what God has for them in this life. They are not at all experiencing the benefits of knowing Christ. If they continue down this path, at some point there is reason to question whether they would go to heaven if they were to die at that point.

Hebrews 6:4-9 does raise caution about this. But again,God’s intention and desire is that they understand His love and His ability to work in their life. What is of utmost value to a Christian who is not walking with God, is to pray for him or her, to love that person, and as God leads you, to encourage them to see God’s heart and the value of walking with Him.I think this is far more beneficial for them than cautioning them about their eternal security. If they are not walking with God it is likely due to their perspective about this life and a short-sighted view of God.
 
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Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
#6
Hell is eternal separation from the love of God. God is love so His love is unconditional. This verse you stated is conclusive in guaranteeing eternal salvation. The "us" that Paul was referring to is us as born again believers in Jesus and the belief in the promise that He made. Even a believer will often stumble and fall. When that happens the believer ask for forgiveness in order to be reconciled to the Lord to walk in His light, and is not attempting to renew his salvation.
YOur first two statements are contradictory. Hell is separation, spiritually from a relationship with God. God's love is unconditional and is extended to unbelievers but even those in hell. It is the very love of God toward those in hell that becomes the fire of hell because they cannot return His love.

Again, misusing scriptural terminology. If you are speaking of the whole plan of salvation then you can use the word salvation. But in the particular use, salvation is what Christ accomplished for man and the world in freeing man/world from the bondage to death and sin.
Because Christ saved mankind from death and sin, He now offers to each individual eternal life. Meaning an existence in eternity with Christ. Eternal Life is not guaranteed in scripture. We possess it when we believe and will inherit eternal life at the end IF we remain faithful, IF we remain obedient to His will, IF we work with Him to transform us to the Likeness of Christ. God works with man through his faith, but if man loses faith, or becomes unfaithful and does not repent, or confess his sins, one has removed himself from Christ and will not inherit eternal life.
 

violakat

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2014
1,236
21
38
#7
I'll look at the article later when I have some time to think through it. But I do want to say that the way I've been taught is that we are saved for eternity, but that does not give us a free ticket to do what we want. Rather, it means we are then called to share our hope and the Gospel of Salvation to others. We are called to live a Holy life. And when we walk away from God, that it's the Fellowship that we lose, not our Salvation. Similar to how the prodigal son lost his fellowship with his father, but not his relationship. I brought up the question with Hebrews 6 in mine, because I know that if we were to lose salvation, we could never ever obtain it again. We would be lost for all eternity. This does not jive with Christ's story of the prodigal son. And while I realize that you may consider that man be lost because of sin, and then later becoming saved. It seems to differ with the other two stories that are often read along with this parable as well.

Anyway, my point is, that while I believe in Salvation is eternal and will not be taken away, I do not believe that it gives me a free ticket to do whatever I want. Instead, I am called to live a changed life, a life that Glorifies God. I also believe that if I were to do whatever sin I wanted, then I never truly became saved, only just mouthed some words to make someone happy or tried to fool God.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#8
Lazarus was saved twice! ;)
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#9
There was these three men who went to HELL, one was a Catholic, one was a Baptist,
and one was a Christian Science. The devil was walking around to see why people were in HELL for.
The devil came to the Catholic and said , What about it boy why are you here?
And the Catholic said , Someone is praying me out of here. The devil came to the Baptist
and said, What about it boy why are you here? And the Baptist said, Man I did it, that's it,
I'm here for eternity. The devil came to the Christian Science and said, What about it boy
why are you here? And the Christian Science said , Man I ain't even here.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#10
Different Denominational Ministries:
The Methodists pick you up out of the gutter.
The Baptists get you "saved".
The Presbyterians educate you.
The Episcopalians introduce you to high society.
Then the Methodists have to pick you up out of the gutter again.

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God.
Protestants don't recognize the pope as the Ruler of the Church.
B's don't recognize each other in a liquor store.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#11
Only Jesus will get you into heaven if you pray for a change of heart and life.

that is what the bible says from front to back
.


thats the only way.

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all,
If any man will come after me,
let him deny himself,
and take up his self denying life daily,
and follow me.
 
Aug 26, 2012
34
0
6
#12
Different Denominational Ministries:
The Methodists pick you up out of the gutter.
The Baptists get you "saved".
The Presbyterians educate you.
The Episcopalians introduce you to high society.
Then the Methodists have to pick you up out of the gutter again.

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God.
Protestants don't recognize the pope as the Ruler of the Church.
B's don't recognize each other in a liquor store.
Funny. However, I have come to believe the discussion either way is a moot point due to the fact that if
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#13
ONCE saved always saved!. That is the cry so often heard from many of the pulpits today. "I can do whatever I want, as long as I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior. Why I could go out and mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and if I were to die at that very moment, I would be saved." Many people believe this teaching today, but is it true? Once we have accepted Jesus as our personal Savior, can we go on living like the world, in open, rebellious sin and still be saved?

Most people who believe the above teaching once saved always saved will quote the following Bible verse as proof: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38, 39.

Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. But does it say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? In fact, is this verse talking about salvation or eternal life at all? No, this verse is clearly talking about God's unconditional love towards man, not unconditional salvation. Salvation is conditional! You might also notice that the word "sin" was not included in the list of things which are unable to separate us from the love of God.

If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? Here is an aswer "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

What was the very first lie recorded in the Bible? It was the devil, speaking through the serpent when he was talking to Eve. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4. The devil has been deceiving people ever since with this lie. "Once saved always saved", is another lie from Satan and people have been believing it for years and will be sadly surprised in the judgment.


Great Post !! Richie
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#14
Let me ask you this, do you believe that man can be resaved if he loses his Salvation?
James 5:19,20:
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#15
James 5:19,20:
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
"Save a soul from death", how do you know James is talking about the 1st death or the 2nd death death? We really don't know what death James is speaking of. Is it not generally true the more you sin, the faster you might met physical death. If you drink too much alcohol, doesn't it affect your liver? couldn't you be a victim a car accident by driving drunk? Couldn't sexual promiscuity for heterosexuals and homosexuals lead to sexual diseases, namely AIDS? Couldn't lying through-out your life lead to more stress in by the fear of being exposed? I'm not so sure this is a good verse that proves your point. The point is bringing your brother back to the faith covers a multitude of sins, in which probably will cause him to live better/healthier, leading to a longer life here on earth. I take this more of a proverb then a proof text for losing one's salvation.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#16
"Save a soul from death", how do you know James is talking about the 1st death or the 2nd death death? We really don't know what death James is speaking of. Is it not generally true the more you sin, the faster you might met physical death. If you drink too much alcohol, doesn't it affect your liver? couldn't you be a victim a car accident by driving drunk? Couldn't sexual promiscuity for heterosexuals and homosexuals lead to sexual diseases, namely AIDS? Couldn't lying through-out your life lead to more stress in by the fear of being exposed? I'm not so sure this is a good verse that proves your point. The point is bringing your brother back to the faith covers a multitude of sins, in which probably will cause him to live better/healthier, leading to a longer life here on earth. I take this more of a proverb then a proof text for losing one's salvation.
James is talking about spiritual death in the context.....err from truth>convert with result>save a soul from death.

Coffman Comm. has:

To avoid the thrust of this passage, some follow the course of Wessel in referring "death" here to "physical death."[59] This, however, is not indicated at all. As Roberts said, "Death here is eternal death, the second death of the Bible. Repentance will not save a soul from any other kind of death?[60]

59] Walter W. Wessel, op. cit., p. 963.
60] J. W. Roberts, op. cit., p. 179.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
#17
Let me ask you this, do you believe that man can be resaved if he loses his Salvation?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Now do you?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#18
It Is a Satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

R U sure that you want to start another thread on the same topic as one already going?

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/91892-satanic-heresy-deny-eternal-security.html

As to Hebrews 6:1-8, keep on through 6:9 where it is explained that the preceding characteristics (as seen in Judas) are characteristics of persons never saved. Things that pertain to salvation are better than the things in the preceding context. In other words, those apostates were never saved. As 1 John 2 tells us, apostates prove they were never in the Body of Christ by departing; if they had been part of the real Church, they would not have departed.

Now this has been explained over & over on the preceding thread. I groan at the idea of going all over the same stuff again.

Incidentally, I don't call eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved." I call it, OSS = Once saved, saved! The astounding idea that the saved in fact are saved!

The alternative to trusting Christ as Savior, is to denigrate him to a chance-giver.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 23: I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138

"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"


Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
 

violakat

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2014
1,236
21
38
#19
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Now do you?
did you bother to read my second post from earlier? I think you would be able to see my answer. And as for why I was asking him, it was a legitimate question, and not one of sarcasm, which it sounds like you are taking it as. I don't think Ricky took it at that, by the way he answered.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#20
ONCE saved always saved!. That is the cry so often heard from many of the pulpits today. "I can do whatever I want, as long as I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior. Why I could go out and mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and if I were to die at that very moment, I would be saved." Many people believe this teaching today, but is it true? Once we have accepted Jesus as our personal Savior, can we go on living like the world, in open, rebellious sin and still be saved?


Most people who believe the above teaching once saved always saved will quote the following Bible verse as proof: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38, 39.


Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. But does it say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? In fact, is this verse talking about salvation or eternal life at all? No, this verse is clearly talking about God's unconditional love towards man, not unconditional salvation. Salvation is conditional! You might also notice that the word "sin" was not included in the list of things which are unable to separate us from the love of God.

If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? Here is an aswer "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.


What was the very first lie recorded in the Bible? It was the devil, speaking through the serpent when he was talking to Eve. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4. The devil has been deceiving people ever since with this lie. "Once saved always saved", is another lie from Satan and people have been believing it for years and will be sadly surprised in the judgment.


In regards to Hebrews 10:26, we need to look at the entire context:

(Please, Bare with me, this is quite lengthy, which is not common for me)

Hebrews 10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient

10 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very [a]form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3 But in [c]those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”


8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law),9 then He [d]said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.10 By [e]this will we have beensanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws upon their heart,
And on their mind I will write them,”


He then says,
17 “And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.”


18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.


A New and Living Way

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,22let us draw near with asincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.


Christ or Judgment

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings,33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one.35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 For yet in a very little while,
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.


39 But [k]we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the[l]preserving of the soul.




The very title of this Chapter is ONE SACRIFICE of Christ is Sufficient. I know this isn't part of the Greek text, but what it does is explain to us what the author is trying to explain to his Jewish audience. The author explains how the OT temple and items were a shadow of the things to come, namely Christ Jesus. He states that these things, and sacrifices never took away sins and never make anyone perfect. They never cleansed the people of their consciousness, their sins were forever before them. For verse 4 states it is impossible for bulls and goats to take away sins.

The passage (verse 12) then goes on and tells us Christ's sacrifice was better then the OT style, because He died once for all our sins. Verse 14 says it again, but adds to it, he says you are NOW PERFECTED for ALL TIME, for those He sanctified/got born-again/became a Child of God (all the same thing).

Verse 16 tells us those who He sanctified, He PUT HIS LAW IN OUR HEARTs and Minds...God did this! It is not of our doing. When God does this, our heart now desires to obey Him! Yes, we still battle with our flesh, but now our hearts war against flesh (see Romans 7). After God does this then God will REMEMBER OUR SINS NO MORE! (verse 17) What great news!

NOTICE what God says in verse 18, Now where there is forgiveness of these things (SINS), Their no longer remains a sacrifice or offering for sin. What does mean? verse 17 and 18 answered this, once Jesus suffered and died as the perfect sacrifice, and once you genuinely repented and placed your faith in this act of God, it is done! God has forgiven your sins past, present and future (verse 12) and their is no need for Christ to go through it again, like the OT priestly system in which God found fault.


Then the author continues and encourages us to boldly approach the throne of Grace, the spiritual holy of Holies with confidence and assurance, the new way! This new way is the veil, Jesus, to obtain our cleansing of our evil conscience and to be washed by pure water. The new way opposes the old way, the earthly priesthood has no value anymore because the Old way could never take away sins or atone because it was only a shadow to the real thing, Jesus Christ. So hold fast to you confession (Verse 23) of your how without wavering < Going back to the old system >...Because there is no more temporary forgiveness of sins with that old system. Which is why the Author encourages not to forsake the gathering of the believers in Verse 24, (some did go back, they didn't fully trust in the NEW WAY!) in other words do not GO BACK TO TEMPLE/PRIEST sacrifices, but to remain in the faith of those who had been converted. WHY NOT? BECAUSE that system is going to be destroyed by God (Hebrews 8:13)(70AD) and that time is drawing near (verse 25).

With me so far? Now to the verse you used for proof text regarding losing salvation. 26. For now if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. IN Context from what we just learned, after any Jew has heard the gospel message of Christ being our High priest forever, ONCE Sacrificed for all sin, going back to the old system won't saved them for it is obsolete, Christ fulfilled the Law! This is why there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, the author is talking of the OLD SYSTEM, not the NEW...For if was the new, then 1 john 1:8 wouldn't be true, James 5:19-20 wouldn't be true. If this means a believer could not come back to Christ, then it means a born-again believer who strays from the faith can't be renew to the faith or re-born-again.

Again, why not forsake the gathering of the believers, because Jesus is going to Judge the Old System and those who rejected Him as their Messiah/Husband (Verse 27) Judgment remains and awaits for those who are in or go back to Judaism. Verse 28 confirms what I am saying or interpreting here, those who rejects Law of Moses dies without mercy, many Laws of the OT concerning crimes against the Law demanded death. But when it comes to those who Reject Christ they will be in greater judgment. They will be judged more harshly (verse 29) for the Jews were first given the Oracles of God (Romans 3:2), and they trampled Christ underfoot, and considered His blood of the covenant unclean. There is no more forgiveness for them. BTW, if there is a verse to support that you can lose your Salvation, it maybe found here in this verse 29, because the author stated this person who goes on willfully sinning, was sanctified. But if "he" refers to God as in it is God who sanctified the covenant, that changes that theory. It could be a matter of translation, I don't know. So this person who goes on willfully sinning, does so by going back to the old system, he doesn't remain in Christ. That which is sanctified could mean the blood of the covenant; it is that which sanctifies us as the NIV puts it, see Hebrews 10:29. So even this verse may prove or disprove OSAS. The only problem I have with it is this, if someone who has been sanctified, and then falls away into this willfully sin, can he be brought back again? The bible says nothing about being re-born-again. It could be that at one time this person thought the blood of Christ might sanctified him, yet he didn't go through the veil or changed his mind. It's a hard passage for both Calvinists and Armenians (of which I don't place myself in either camp 100%) as maybe verse 35 might suggest, that this type of person has no confidence.

Verse 39 tells that those who have faith do not shrink back.