What does the Law REALLY say?
- Thread starter KohenMatt
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Love
If you do, then you do. If you don't, then you don't. But, always do it unto God.
What Paul said, things strangled and from blood.
That nudge from the Spirit reminds us of our obligation to God and others
If a couple wishes to know each other during that time, fine with me. But, it is vulgar in my opinion.
I truly, truly apologize a thousand times, I actually thought I gave a clear answer. The Laws which Love covers and nothing more. I love God and do not wish to offend Him, so I will have no other god or do those things which are evil before Him (what He considers to be harmful). I love my neighbor and do not wish to harm him, so I will not lie about him, I will not steal from him, I will not kill him. I will heed to Wisdom who sets in the marketplace and calls to herself. I will open my ears to her and hear the instructions of a Father. And the Father who would say to Love as I have Loved, even given my Son, seeing that in loving, my will is pleased.
They who are learning the Law, do you not know that the Law has dominion over (rule, is lord over) you as long as you live? Do you not know that they who are by the Law shall be judged by the Law and that they who are judged by the Law will ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL receive a judicial sentence of death. Come now, die to the Law and marry Another whose Law we can fulfill by the simple act of Love, which my dear, is what it was all about in the first place.
So then, we having died to the Law are free from the Law which worked through our flesh to fulfill God's will. Having died, let us therefore marry Another so that through His, we can serve God's Law with the mind. Indeed, those in Christ are dead to that husband and surely our new Husband also seeks to fulfill God's eternal will through Love and not flesh.
We are dead to the Law when it comes to it being that which dictates to us how to be pleasing to God and that is through the flesh.
We are alive to the Lord when it comes to Him being the One who dictates to us how to be pleasing to God and that is through Love.
God's Law: cause no harm (do no evil), do not offend (sin). Love: the Law from Christ.
If you do, then you do. If you don't, then you don't. But, always do it unto God.
What Paul said, things strangled and from blood.
That nudge from the Spirit reminds us of our obligation to God and others
If a couple wishes to know each other during that time, fine with me. But, it is vulgar in my opinion.
I truly, truly apologize a thousand times, I actually thought I gave a clear answer. The Laws which Love covers and nothing more. I love God and do not wish to offend Him, so I will have no other god or do those things which are evil before Him (what He considers to be harmful). I love my neighbor and do not wish to harm him, so I will not lie about him, I will not steal from him, I will not kill him. I will heed to Wisdom who sets in the marketplace and calls to herself. I will open my ears to her and hear the instructions of a Father. And the Father who would say to Love as I have Loved, even given my Son, seeing that in loving, my will is pleased.
They who are learning the Law, do you not know that the Law has dominion over (rule, is lord over) you as long as you live? Do you not know that they who are by the Law shall be judged by the Law and that they who are judged by the Law will ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL receive a judicial sentence of death. Come now, die to the Law and marry Another whose Law we can fulfill by the simple act of Love, which my dear, is what it was all about in the first place.
So then, we having died to the Law are free from the Law which worked through our flesh to fulfill God's will. Having died, let us therefore marry Another so that through His, we can serve God's Law with the mind. Indeed, those in Christ are dead to that husband and surely our new Husband also seeks to fulfill God's eternal will through Love and not flesh.
We are dead to the Law when it comes to it being that which dictates to us how to be pleasing to God and that is through the flesh.
We are alive to the Lord when it comes to Him being the One who dictates to us how to be pleasing to God and that is through Love.
God's Law: cause no harm (do no evil), do not offend (sin). Love: the Law from Christ.
That said, you are preaching a mixture.
You dip back into the Grave for a little Law here and there and don't rely wholly on resting in Christ and His Gospel of Grace, just to make sure you're pleasing to God, because you don't fully trust that what Christ did was enough.
Do not offend is not 'God's Law' in the New Covenant. We are responsible for two things, and one is the Fruit of the other:
Believe on the One God has sent and love one another (Jn. 6:28-29, 1 Jn. 3:23-24).
Going back to anything Old Covenant is not required, nor is it still God's way of communicating His will to us. That's like going to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (being under the Law) instead of going to the Tree of Life (being led by the Spirit).
-JGIG
UMMMMM, no, I didn't say that. I said the application of the individual laws depends on the laws themselves. All of the laws are applicable either physically and/or spiritually. How they're applied depends on the specific law itself.
I'm not "trying" to earn approval of God by keeping the commands. I'm only accepted by God because of Jesus' sacrifice. No amount of obedience or disobedience affects that.
This standard isn't found in the original giving of the Law. God gave Israel plenty of blessings for keeping the Law. He also gave plenty more curses for disobeying the Law. Paul used that phrase for those who were keeping the Law for salvation's sake. I am not.
Again, I'm not trying to "earn" God's approval. It's already been granted to me by Jesus' sacrifice.
I am dead to the punishment of breaking the Law.
I am not dead to walking in obedience to what God tells me to do, whether it be God's commands in the OT, the prophets, the NT or Jesus' 2. That's why Jesus walked in obedience to the commands of the OT and taught His followers to do so as well.
Let me re-emphasize that....
Jesus told His followers to follow the Law. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." -Matthew 5:20
Get off of the "working for salvation/righteousness/perfection/justification/approval/acceptance" kick. I'm not making this argument.
Only YOU are.
I'm not "trying" to earn approval of God by keeping the commands. I'm only accepted by God because of Jesus' sacrifice. No amount of obedience or disobedience affects that.
This standard isn't found in the original giving of the Law. God gave Israel plenty of blessings for keeping the Law. He also gave plenty more curses for disobeying the Law. Paul used that phrase for those who were keeping the Law for salvation's sake. I am not.
Again, I'm not trying to "earn" God's approval. It's already been granted to me by Jesus' sacrifice.
I am dead to the punishment of breaking the Law.
I am not dead to walking in obedience to what God tells me to do, whether it be God's commands in the OT, the prophets, the NT or Jesus' 2. That's why Jesus walked in obedience to the commands of the OT and taught His followers to do so as well.
Let me re-emphasize that....
Jesus told His followers to follow the Law. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." -Matthew 5:20
Get off of the "working for salvation/righteousness/perfection/justification/approval/acceptance" kick. I'm not making this argument.
Only YOU are.
So you recognize that Law-keeping is dead works and choose to continue therein.
So why do you continue to grave-dip into the old, dead self and that dead relationship to the Law?
How can that possibly be pleasing to God, Who provided for your New Life in Him at so great a cost?
Think about it.
-JGIG
So why do you continue to grave-dip into the old, dead self and that dead relationship to the Law?
How can that possibly be pleasing to God, Who provided for your New Life in Him at so great a cost?
Think about it.
-JGIG
Ummmm, yes, you absolutely did. The Law is clear in its presentation. It doesn't give blessings or withhold curses for 'effort', only complete and total obedience. In the flesh.
Right. Yet you continue to dip into the grave of your old dead self to go back to the Law that you have died to. Not sure how you think that is pleasing to God.
The standard of perfection is absolutely found in the Law as it its written. See:
- Exodus 23:13
- Deuteronomy 5:28-33
- Deuteronomy 8:1
- Deuteronomy 12:27-28
- Jeremiah 7:21-26
- Joshua 1:6-9
- Galatians 3:10-14
- James 2:8-11
And Paul was not chastising unbelievers for trying to use the Law for salvation; he was chastising believers for going back to the Law after being saved by Grace:
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? [These are BELIEVERS, those who have received the Spirit that Paul is referencing.] 3 Are you [believers] so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you [believers] now trying to finish by means of the flesh? (from Gal. 3)
Then what are you trying to do?
Yet to go back to the Law, you have to dip back into your own grave to get to the Law that you are dead to.
Jesus preached the Law to those under the Law - before the Cross. He preached the Old Covenant while the Old Covenant was still in effect. The Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect High Priesthood had not yet happened. Understanding that is part of rightly dividing the Word.
Let me re-emphasize: Jesus preached the Law to those under the Law - before the Cross. He preached the Old Covenant while the Old Covenant was still in effect. The Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect High Priesthood had not yet happened. Understanding that is part of rightly dividing the Word.
Never have said you do it for salvation. And if you're not doing it for any of those other things, what ARE you doing it for?
To be pleasing to God and show your love for Him?
By dipping back into your old, dead self's grave to go back under the Law that you have died to?
THAT pleases God?!
-JGIG
C
And he said in Acts 24 "I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets."
Posting this verse without saying it's from Paul in any "law" thread would draw much attack from those who only believe things that are in accordance with their understanding of Paul and with their theology.
Done that.
Posting this verse without saying it's from Paul in any "law" thread would draw much attack from those who only believe things that are in accordance with their understanding of Paul and with their theology.
Done that.