A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance

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tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#1
A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance

Gospel repentance is a repentance which comes as the gift of God by the Holy Spirit as He enlightens our minds to the Gospel — God’s promise to save guilty, defiled, hell-deserving sinners, freely give them all of salvation (including the work of the Holy Spirit in them), and entitle them to all of heaven and final glory based solely upon the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ freely imputed and upon all who believe the gospel.

It is only in this light that sinners can come to a repentance that is pleasing to God. Before hearing and believing this Gospel, all repentance is no more than legal conviction that motivates a sinner in seeking to remove the guilt and defilement of sin and to recommend himself to God by his own self-efforts at remorse, reformation, obedience, and dedication. This is the repentance and sorrow of the world that “worketh death” (2 Corinthians 7:10) as it motivates sinners to bring forth “fruit unto death” (Romans 7:4) and “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; Hebrews 9:14).

Such “fruit unto death” and “dead works” include any attempts of a sinner to attain or maintain any of the blessings or benefits of salvation along with any attempts to be entitled to any part of the inheritance of grace and glory based on anything other than the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ freely imputed and received by faith.

A person therefore may be acutely aware of his guilt and defilement. He may admit his total depravity and utter worthlessness. He may adamantly and continually confess that God would be just to damn him based on his sins, but true godly repentance can only be determined by this:

Where does he find relief from his guilt, defilement, and depravity? If he finds relief anywhere but in the righteousness of Christ (His substitutionary obedience and death on the cross), he has not been “made sorry after a godly manner” (2 Corinthians 7:9) nor come to “godly sorrow” which “worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of” (2 Corinthians 7:10). His repentance is no more than legal, natural-conscience conviction of which he needs to repent.

We would all agree that the Bible teaches the necessity of repentance –
Luke 13:3
“except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Acts 17:30
“God commandeth all men everywhere to repent.”
Christ said in Matthew 9:13,
“for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
He told His disciples that
Luke 24:47
“repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Paul characterized his ministry in the preaching of the Gospel as…
Acts 20:21
“testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.”
We learn in 2 Peter 3:9 concerning God’s elect that God is “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

What exactly is this repentance?
When most people think of repentance they most always think of reformations of life involving a change from a life of immorality or lack of dedication in religion to a life of morality and dedication in religion. Most who go through such a change end up better in society as they conform to moral standards and begin to practice responsible behavior. Their families and their societies may be the better for it, and this is something that all of us should encourage in all without exception. We should always promote such reformations of life and character in people whose lives are characterized by immorality and irresponsible behavior.

But such reformations do not characterize the true nature and heart of godly repentance! Such reformations may accompany godly repentance, but if this is as far as it goes, the person may have turned from immorality to morality, but they have not repented in God’s sight. In fact, if such a person reforms in character and conduct as motivated by the darkness of false religion, then they are “twofold more the child of hell” (Matthew 23:15). The fact is that most people repent of immorality and irresponsible behavior before they are ever saved and come to true godly repentance.

The Greek dictionary defines repentance as “a reversal of your thoughts; a radical change of mind.” In the New Testament, the word “repentance” means a change of mind that brings about a change of life, walk, and conduct. In the Old Testament, the word “repentance” meant a turning as in the case of a person going in one direction and turning around to go in the opposite direction. This godly change of mind and conduct which is called repentance can come only in light of the Gospel wherein Christ and His righteousness is revealed as the only ground of salvation and entitlement to heaven. This godly repentance is a change of mind concerning the character of God (Who He is) and the only ground upon which He can justify the ungodly. It is a change of mind concerning Christ (Who He is and what He accomplished) and the value of His obedience and death (His righteousness) as being the only ground of salvation and entitlement to heaven. It is a change of mind concerning ourselves (who we are) as being guilty, defiled sinners who owe a debt to God’s law and justice we cannot pay, who are in need of a righteousness we cannot produce. It is a change of mind concerning our best efforts to remove the guilt and defilement of sin, our best efforts to recommend ourselves to God, our best deeds aimed at attaining, maintaining, and entitling us to salvation.

The Apostle Paul illustrates this clearly in Philippians 3:3-10. In true Gospel faith and repentance a sinner comes to see and trust that Christ’s righteousness alone entitles him to all of salvation, including the subjective work of the Spirit, before he makes any efforts to obey God and persevere. In this specific light, he comes to see that before faith, his best efforts at obedience, all that he highly esteemed and thought was profitable in recommending him unto God, is now “loss,” no more than “dung” (Philippians 3:7-8) in light of Christ’s obedience and death. What he before thought was pleasing unto God and works of the Spirit, he now sees as “flesh” (Philippians 3:3-4). What he once highly esteemed, he is now ashamed of it (Romans 6:21) and now, in light of the Gospel, counts it as fruit unto death, dead works, and evil deeds. He now sees that before faith, before believing that Christ’s righteousness alone entitled him to all of salvation, his thoughts of God were all wrong and that the god he worshipped and served then is an idol. Therefore, in repentance, he turns from that idol to serve the true and living God (1 Thessalonians 1:9).

This kind of true godly repentance can only come in light of the Gospel as it takes this specific truth, this light, to expose the sin that deceives us all by nature (John 3:19-20). Before we hear and believe the Gospel we are all deceived by sin (Romans 7:11). The sin that deceives us all by nature is not immorality. All of us by nature, by natural conscience know that immorality is sinful (Romans 2:14-15). This knowledge may not keep sinners from indulging in and even excusing or justifying such immorality, but this is the result of not retaining the knowledge God has given in the conscience. The sin that deceives us all by nature is the sinfulness of seeking to establish a righteousness of our own before God. It is the sin of thinking that our reformations, our faithfulness, our tears of repentance and remorse, our attempts at obedience, our prayers, or anything that proceeds from us could attain, maintain, and/or entitle us to any part of salvation. This reveals the true nature and heart of godly repentance. This is the radical change of mind that Gospel repentance brings. This is when a sinner repents of dead works and idolatry. He turns from the god of his imagination, the god who saved him and blessed him based on his best efforts, and he turns to the true and living God who justifies the ungodly based on solely on the righteousness of Christ.

Consider John 16:8-11.

John 16:8
And when He is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:9
Of sin, because they believe not on Me;
John 16:10
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Me no more;
John 16:11
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

This refers to the work of God the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) in the conversion of God’s elect. It describes the conviction (convincing) that goes on when the Holy Spirit brings sinners to repentance. He convinces God’s elect “Of sin, because they believe not on Me.” Many claim that this means that the Holy Spirit convinces sinners merely of the sin of unbelief. This is certainly included, but it goes further. The Holy Spirit convinces sinners that everything before faith, before hearing and believing the Gospel, was sinful (dead works, fruit unto death). Again, “Without faith it is impossible to please [God]“ (Hebrews 11:6).


Sinners then repent of ever thinking that anything but Christ’s righteousness could recommend them unto God or entitle them to salvation. God the Holy Spirit convinces God’s elect “Of righteousness, because I go to my Father.” This means He convinces sinners that Christ’s righteousness alone entitles them to all of salvation. He convinces God’s elect “Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.” This is a large part of Gospel repentance in that the Holy Spirit imparts within every believer a new standard of judgment. The believer no longer judges saved and lost based on Satan’s lie (outward appearance, reputation, etc.) (Genesis 3:4), but he now judges saved and lost based on God’s truth (Gospel) (Mark 16:15-16; John 3:18; 2 John 9-11).

Many claim that repentance is a continual matter in the life of a believer, that believers have to repent constantly and continually. It is true that there is a continual aspect to repentance. It is true that believers must repent constantly over the presence and influence of remaining sin. We see examples of this in the Bible. The Corinthians were called on to repent over their sinful conduct. They were called on to be ashamed enough to change their behavior. The Galatians were called on to repent of following false religious teachers who corrupted the Gospel with legalism. All this is true, but Gospel repentance begins with repentance of dead works and former idolatry. If this does not take place as the first evidence of true saving faith, then all continual repentance is no more than legal, natural-conscience conviction.
Now, in light of this we must judge from God’s testimony as to whether or not we have truly repented. For example, there are many who have changed doctrines but who have never truly repented. Many have come from believing in the false god of Arminianism, semi-Pelagianism, free-willism, and have come to believe in a sovereign God. Many have come from believing a universal atonement to believing in a particular atonement. Many have come to claim to believe in the doctrines of total depravity, election, irresistible calling, and perseverance of the saints, but they have never truly repented. How can this be?

They have never admitted that while they believed God would save them based on something other than the righteousness of Christ which entitles sinners to all of salvation, that while they imagined that God would save them, keep them, and entitle them to heaven based on something that proceeded from them, they worshipped and served an idol, they were lost, and all their efforts were fruit unto death. They have never been made ashamed and sorry that in such religious pride and self-righteousness, they exalted themselves and had confidence in the flesh.

They have never repented of believing and promoting a universal atonement which reduced the blood of Christ to a worthless pedestal upon which sinners could stand and boast of their own faith, repentance, and perseverance. They have not yet seen how such doctrine dishonored every attribute of God’s redemptive character, casts shame and reproach upon the Person and the work of Christ, and gave them room to boast. They will not admit that believing and promoting such God-dishonoring doctrines proved that they were not submitted to Christ and His righteousness as the only ground of salvation and entitlement to heaven.

Some may argue, “But these are only implications that can be discovered only by a mature and skilled believer.” For those of you who believe this is a valid argument, you need to refer to the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Galatians. Such doctrines that dishonor God, deny Christ, and leave sinner’s room to boast are deadly and damning to men’s souls (Galatians 2:21; Galatians 5:1-4; Galatians 6:14-16).

Think about this — How can we honor God, exalt Christ, and leave ourselves no room to boast? This can be accomplished only in believing that Christ’s righteousness alone entitles us to all of salvation, including the Holy Spirit’s work in us, before we take the first step in seeking to serve the Lord and persevere in the faith. One cannot believe this Gospel savingly without having repented of everything else. If you have not believed this up to this point, then you need to repent and believe the Gospel!


A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance « Jesus is Lord! <- link
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
outstanding.

we should ask ourselves why John was away from the Temple, calling them out, away from dead works.

make a straight path for The Lord to travel - why? He is The Lamb of God.

without Him we can do nothing.

Praise God for that.

recall the reminder to return to our first love? the joy of knowing the Wonderful Works of God.
 
Last edited:
Feb 11, 2012
1,358
8
0
#3
Your whole theory of repentance is way off, since you believe mankind in born depraved and unable to repent, original sin is a false pagan teachings, which has been covered well on these liberal posts!

Would do you some good to see your error and then get real repentance and faith right, all through the word of God, Its repentance unto salvation, another words you do not get saved as a vile sinner as you allude to, then repent sometime later, NO WAY!

Hope this helps!


When they say Repent

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Luke24:47
In the Present Day Church System Repentance has come to mean something Entirely different than the Bible definition. When they say ‘Repent’ (and many of them have eliminated the word from their vocabulary) it suggests a ‘TRUSTING’ in some kind of theological arrangement that fits into their systematic understanding of Scripture. In reality this is far removed from what Jesus and the Apostles Preached for the remission of Sins.
The Solid Foundation of following Christ is a Departure from Sin. (2Tim2:19) Remove this fundamental Premise from Repentance and you negate the entire process. Under Present theology man is Born a sinner having been imputed with the guilt of Adam and thereby incapable of free will. Thus this necessitates the creation of ‘Doctrine’ to bring about his Salvation apart from any effort on his part. So Repenting (if preached at all) means an Apology for ‘a nature’ you have no control over. The Best God can do is Save you ‘in your sins’, impute you with the Righteousness and Obedience of Jesus and then Pretend you’re no longer a vile sinner because you’re under Grace.
Since you Can’t forsake a ‘Nature’ (inbred into your flesh) a ‘Willingness’ to stop sinning qualifies for real Salvation. As long as you’re ‘Coming out’ of your sins, gradually, sinning less and less, it qualifies for real Salvation. Although in an effort to protest their faulty theology many preachers will say that the lack of fruit bearing translates into a false conversion. (Obvious Contradiction!) But bottom line they all insist that Salvation is ‘Not of Works’ (Eph2:8-9) and no one can Judge, so they well NEVER actually tell anyone that their behavior may jeopardize the outcome of their Salvation. Again, you’re ‘willingness’ is enough. You express that with a sorrowful apology and God will forgive.
However the Repentance in Scripture uses an ENTIRELY different language that’s completely foreign to Present day theology. First of all the Message is always addressed to the human Mind under the full assumption of Free Will ability to respond. God Does Not Coerce, He invites man to make a Choice. That’s why He Demands that Repentance and Faith be Proven by DEEDS! (Acts26:18) Notice the Vast difference in verbal communication:
”Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord”
”Listen and TURN from your evil ways!”
”Amend your ways and your doings and Obey the Lord!”
”He who covers his sins shall not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them shall find mercy.”
”Come Out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord!”

No one in genuine repentance Presumes upon the Lord. They seek Reconciliation in brokenness and humility expecting nothing. Note the King of Nineveh directing his city to Turn:
Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? Jonah3:7-9.

When the Lord Himself spoke of Repentance in Matt12:38-42, he compared the Present Message preached to the message of Jonah, which includes an obvious departure from Sin in the Repentance Process. There wasn’t merely a ‘Willingness’ to Stop Sinning in Nineveh or some kind of apology to God for being sinful. The People got CLEAR of their Wrong Doing and Cried out to the Lord. They Obeyed the voice of the Prophet and PROVED it by their Deeds. This Matches Perfectly with the Model of Repentance explained in 2Cor7:10-11……

For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Real Repentance Produces an Outcome:
Diligence to DO what is Right!
Clearing of Wrong Doing!
Fear of God
Vehement Desire Change
And PURITY of Heart
WHERE is any of this in the ‘TRUST’ Model?
You Apologize for being a sinner
Repeat some words
Then Trust you have Received Jesus into your heart
The Sin remains. The Bondage stays put. You’re a Slave to Who you Obey convinced you’re a child of God by proxy. (John8:39) Yet NO WHERE did Jesus EVER tell anyone to ‘Trust’ in His finished Work and Receive Him as their Personal Savior! Instead He told them to:

OBEY His Commands, Keep His Word, Put their hand to the Plow, Count the Cost, Take up your Cross, Be DOERS of the Word! Go and Sin no more. Deny yourself, Follow Me!
HOW Does any of this Translate into ‘Trust’ ? Is a Person trying to ‘Save themselves’ by Obeying God, Or Doing the Works of Righteousness? (1John3:7-8) It’s easy to be a hypocrite and follow the crowd down the wide Road to Destruction. You believe your preachers are saying all the Right things and they have your best interest at heart. But the Message is founded in Error based on a theology that Promises you Liberty in your sin. (2Pet2:18) In Salvation you Remain a Self-Confessed: ‘Wretched Man’, ‘Chief’ of Sinners, Double Minded, COVERED by Grace!
Instead of Repentance proven by Deeds, you TRUSTED in a Doctrine invented by men. In the Manner which you heard the message it ‘seems’ you have something. BUT what you have is Shifting Sands that will taken away at the Judgment. (Lk8:32)
Today’s Professing Christians are Vile and full of evil dispositions. They will not yield to Biblical truth
or crucify the passions and desires of their flesh. The preachers have them convinced that God will forgive all their sins because of Grace. They read the Bible but remain Blind to its precepts. (Never able to come to a knowledge of the truth! 2Tim3:7)
They have fallen Prey to Strong Delusion and given in to the error of the wicked. They Seem to have the upper hand with a Fashion of Christianity, but it’s a complete counterfeit. You’re only chance to escape these lies is to Come Out Now or be Judged with them. www.standingthegap.org
 
R

rauleetoe

Guest
#4
Your whole theory of repentance is way off, since you believe mankind in born depraved and unable to repent, original sin is a false pagan teachings, which has been covered well on these liberal posts!

Would do you some good to see your error and then get real repentance and faith right, all through the word of God, Its repentance unto salvation, another words you do not get saved as a vile sinner as you allude to, then repent sometime later, NO WAY!

Hope this helps!


When they say Repent

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Luke24:47
In the Present Day Church System Repentance has come to mean something Entirely different than the Bible definition. When they say ‘Repent’ (and many of them have eliminated the word from their vocabulary) it suggests a ‘TRUSTING’ in some kind of theological arrangement that fits into their systematic understanding of Scripture. In reality this is far removed from what Jesus and the Apostles Preached for the remission of Sins.
The Solid Foundation of following Christ is a Departure from Sin. (2Tim2:19) Remove this fundamental Premise from Repentance and you negate the entire process. Under Present theology man is Born a sinner having been imputed with the guilt of Adam and thereby incapable of free will. Thus this necessitates the creation of ‘Doctrine’ to bring about his Salvation apart from any effort on his part. So Repenting (if preached at all) means an Apology for ‘a nature’ you have no control over. The Best God can do is Save you ‘in your sins’, impute you with the Righteousness and Obedience of Jesus and then Pretend you’re no longer a vile sinner because you’re under Grace.
Since you Can’t forsake a ‘Nature’ (inbred into your flesh) a ‘Willingness’ to stop sinning qualifies for real Salvation. As long as you’re ‘Coming out’ of your sins, gradually, sinning less and less, it qualifies for real Salvation. Although in an effort to protest their faulty theology many preachers will say that the lack of fruit bearing translates into a false conversion. (Obvious Contradiction!) But bottom line they all insist that Salvation is ‘Not of Works’ (Eph2:8-9) and no one can Judge, so they well NEVER actually tell anyone that their behavior may jeopardize the outcome of their Salvation. Again, you’re ‘willingness’ is enough. You express that with a sorrowful apology and God will forgive.
However the Repentance in Scripture uses an ENTIRELY different language that’s completely foreign to Present day theology. First of all the Message is always addressed to the human Mind under the full assumption of Free Will ability to respond. God Does Not Coerce, He invites man to make a Choice. That’s why He Demands that Repentance and Faith be Proven by DEEDS! (Acts26:18) Notice the Vast difference in verbal communication:
”Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord”
”Listen and TURN from your evil ways!”
”Amend your ways and your doings and Obey the Lord!”
”He who covers his sins shall not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them shall find mercy.”
”Come Out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord!”

No one in genuine repentance Presumes upon the Lord. They seek Reconciliation in brokenness and humility expecting nothing. Note the King of Nineveh directing his city to Turn:
Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? Jonah3:7-9.

When the Lord Himself spoke of Repentance in Matt12:38-42, he compared the Present Message preached to the message of Jonah, which includes an obvious departure from Sin in the Repentance Process. There wasn’t merely a ‘Willingness’ to Stop Sinning in Nineveh or some kind of apology to God for being sinful. The People got CLEAR of their Wrong Doing and Cried out to the Lord. They Obeyed the voice of the Prophet and PROVED it by their Deeds. This Matches Perfectly with the Model of Repentance explained in 2Cor7:10-11……

For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Real Repentance Produces an Outcome:
Diligence to DO what is Right!
Clearing of Wrong Doing!
Fear of God
Vehement Desire Change
And PURITY of Heart
WHERE is any of this in the ‘TRUST’ Model?
You Apologize for being a sinner
Repeat some words
Then Trust you have Received Jesus into your heart
The Sin remains. The Bondage stays put. You’re a Slave to Who you Obey convinced you’re a child of God by proxy. (John8:39) Yet NO WHERE did Jesus EVER tell anyone to ‘Trust’ in His finished Work and Receive Him as their Personal Savior! Instead He told them to:

OBEY His Commands, Keep His Word, Put their hand to the Plow, Count the Cost, Take up your Cross, Be DOERS of the Word! Go and Sin no more. Deny yourself, Follow Me!
HOW Does any of this Translate into ‘Trust’ ? Is a Person trying to ‘Save themselves’ by Obeying God, Or Doing the Works of Righteousness? (1John3:7-8) It’s easy to be a hypocrite and follow the crowd down the wide Road to Destruction. You believe your preachers are saying all the Right things and they have your best interest at heart. But the Message is founded in Error based on a theology that Promises you Liberty in your sin. (2Pet2:18) In Salvation you Remain a Self-Confessed: ‘Wretched Man’, ‘Chief’ of Sinners, Double Minded, COVERED by Grace!
Instead of Repentance proven by Deeds, you TRUSTED in a Doctrine invented by men. In the Manner which you heard the message it ‘seems’ you have something. BUT what you have is Shifting Sands that will taken away at the Judgment. (Lk8:32)
Today’s Professing Christians are Vile and full of evil dispositions. They will not yield to Biblical truth
or crucify the passions and desires of their flesh. The preachers have them convinced that God will forgive all their sins because of Grace. They read the Bible but remain Blind to its precepts. (Never able to come to a knowledge of the truth! 2Tim3:7)
They have fallen Prey to Strong Delusion and given in to the error of the wicked. They Seem to have the upper hand with a Fashion of Christianity, but it’s a complete counterfeit. You’re only chance to escape these lies is to Come Out Now or be Judged with them. www.standingthegap.org

Be carefull..He may accuse you of 'man centerism'

:p

These folks lie when they say they believe in repentance..if they did they would not so vehemently hate the holy life that God offers to all christians..
But because their God is their stomach..and they believed another gospel..I am not surprised by their words..or how they choose to live.

They keep on sinning and sinning..because they point to an 'alleged election'..of which is a fruitless fig tree ready to be cursed by Jesus and to be dried up at the roots. If you seek to live for God..they will accuse you here of claiming you say you do this on your own..because they hate all that is holy. Their very reaction to my saying this is God's will for all christians and you can have this too..them rejecting what it clearly says in 1 and 2 thessalonians..and 1 peter..etc..they merely want to sin as much as possible..yet get away with still holding onto some sort of 'form of godliness'.

Get used to it..this is 90 percent of the folks here.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#5
2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me

Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Romans 5:6
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Romans 8:37
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Romans 14:7
For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:10
As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine.

Galatians 1:4
who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

ALL HAIL JESUS
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
#6
Why then is this included in the Bible

Hebrews 12

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not son
s.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

To be chastised means to be punished (A heavenly spanking if you will) He even goes onto say if we are not chastised we are bastards and not sons. If we are truly sinless why was this included unless we are to progress being transformed into the image of Christ? Or in other words are we to be sinning less and less as He reveals those things that are sin before Him? We are told strive,pressing on to the mark,the indication is that we are not there yet. But on the other hand we are never to be able to use the old nature as an excuse.

And what Leviticus Chapter 4 ,5 and 6 and other passages which all deal with unknown sin. IE sins we are NOT yet aware of. Doesn't the Lord bring us to knowing those as He reveals them to us or do we magical know that they are sin if they not revealed to us? Or are they magically removed from us at the time of salvation?
 
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rauleetoe

Guest
#7
I am afraid that many here that have a false confidence in what their 'preacher told them' or what they read in some famous preacher's writings will be in for a shock when they stand before God and hear..Depart from me..I never knew you!

Scary stuff..your five point calvin election get out of hell for free 'cheap' grace card will not serve you well at that time..
 
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unclefester

Guest
#8
These folks lie when they say they believe in repentance..if they did they would not so vehemently hate the holy life that God offers to all christians..
But because their God is their stomach..and they believed another gospel..I am not surprised by their words..or how they choose to live.

They keep on sinning and sinning..because they point to an 'alleged election'..of which is a fruitless fig tree ready to be cursed by Jesus and to be dried up at the roots. If you seek to live for God..they will accuse you here of claiming you say you do this on your own..because they hate all that is holy. Their very reaction to my saying this is God's will for all christians and you can have this too..them rejecting what it clearly says in 1 and 2 thessalonians..and 1 peter..etc..they merely want to sin as much as possible..yet get away with still holding onto some sort of 'form of godliness'.

Get used to it..this is 90 percent of the folks here.
How utterly sad and pathetic.
 
May 2, 2011
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#10
Opening post is fairly well balanced.

I also agree with Tommy4 that too many are deceived into various forms of false salvation, and false
repentance in 'greasy grace' and name-it/claim-it type religions. I didn't see the purported contention in
the opening post though.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28385-practical-repentance-unto-salvation.html <<-- LINK (thread on this forum)
There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans,
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.


And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans
were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think
ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:1-5


 
May 2, 2011
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#11
SarahM777;884080[B said:


...
... To be chastised means to be punished (A heavenly spanking if you will) He even goes onto say if we are not chastised we are bastards and not sons. If we are truly sinless why was this included unless we are to progress being transformed into the image of Christ? Or in other words are we to be sinning less and less as He reveals those things that are sin before Him? We are told strive,pressing on to the mark,the indication is that we are not there yet. But on the other hand we are never to be able to use the old nature as an excuse.

And what Leviticus Chapter 4 ,5 and 6 and other passages which all deal with unknown sin. IE sins we are NOT yet aware of. Doesn't the Lord bring us to knowing those as He reveals them to us or do we magical know that they are sin if they not revealed to us? Or are they magically removed from us at the time of salvation?
[/b]
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#12
I am afraid that many here that have a false confidence in what their 'preacher told them' or what they read in some famous preacher's writings will be in for a shock when they stand before God and hear..Depart from me..I never knew you!

Scary stuff..your five point calvin election get out of hell for free 'cheap' grace card will not serve you well at that time..
Sorry rauleetoo,

I am not a Calvinist. Grace was not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. God still says be ye Holy for I am Holy. But I know I have not obtained perfection yet. There still must be the fruit of the Spirit. The Bible tells us we are in a battle with the flesh,the world and the Devil. We still stumble whether we like it or not and howdo you deal with the sins you are unaware of?
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
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#13
How utterly sad and pathetic.
For the arminian it is always others who are to repent - not himself. The arminian has many "burdens" for others, none for himself. Typical trademarks.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#14
And how does one deal with the fact that most of the epistles and the letters to the seven churches in Asia which are all addressing Christians,have a fair amount of rebukes for correction. 1 Corinthians is one very long rebuke. Do you see any where in that letter where Paul says that they are not Christians? And yes they had some very serious issues which he had to address.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#15
Opening post is fairly well balanced.

I also agree with Tommy4 that too many are deceived into various forms of false salvation, and false
repentance in 'greasy grace' and name-it/claim-it type religions. I didn't see the purported contention in
the opening post though.

pretty hard to agree with the standingthegap crowd...they deny it is The Lord's Righteousness.

Adam and Eve given the promise of a redeemer....given animal skins the Lord killed...for them...and on and on.
the Gospel of God's Work in reconciling us to Himself is pushed aside, even though it is EVERYWHERE in the real Testimony of Him Who died for us.

it is another gospel.
 
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rauleetoe

Guest
#16
Sorry rauleetoo,

I am not a Calvinist. Grace was not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. God still says be ye Holy for I am Holy. But I know I have not obtained perfection yet. There still must be the fruit of the Spirit. The Bible tells us we are in a battle with the flesh,the world and the Devil. We still stumble whether we like it or not and howdo you deal with the sins you are unaware of?
You will stumble quite easier if you take your eyes off of Jesus even for a second..thats when a man falls. Remember we are to look to Jesus..and cast off any weight and sin that besets us..and run this race..
hebrews 12:1-2..
God talks to me and shows me if i need adjustments..and reminds me to focus on him..and that his spirit is there to help. As far as 'sins' i hope you are not seeking to say we can go on and practice(I am asking because these days I see some may be implying this on this CC site)
It's one thing to slip and forget..its another thing to all out practice sin..
After one is saved..we are to go in the opposite direction. Remember what Jesus said in john 8 to the woman caught in adultery? Women..where are your accusers?(there are all gone Lord), well I do not condemn you either..Go and 'sin no more'
 
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rauleetoe

Guest
#17
For the arminian it is always others who are to repent - not himself. The arminian has many "burdens" for others, none for himself. Typical trademarks.
Sir, I suggest that you go read a little about classical arminian theology before you go on with your balking against it..you know nothing about Arminianism. All Christians are to repent..your election get out of hell card will be useless to you if your life proves that you did not believe a thing you said you do.

But because i do not say go on with your easy greasy fivepoint easy believism aka calvinism I have a trademark statement? All christians should be encouraging you to be living for God..regardless of their 'allegiance'..
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
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#18
Your whole theory of repentance is way off, since you believe mankind in born depraved and unable to repent, original sin is a false pagan teachings, which has been covered well on these liberal posts!

Would do you some good to see your error and then get real repentance and faith right, all through the word of God, Its repentance unto salvation, another words you do not get saved as a vile sinner as you allude to, then repent sometime later, NO WAY!

Hope this helps!
If you say you have no sin it is because you do not know what sin is and thereby you are only justifying your sin. This is the deception you have fallen into. Repent and believe the gospel.
 
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rauleetoe

Guest
#19
If you say you have no sin it is because you do not know what sin is and thereby you are only justifying your sin. This is the deception you have fallen into. Repent and believe the gospel.

If you mean become a five point calvinist in the highest sense..i got news for you..thats not repenting..Repent means..go and sin no more.
I encourage you to take an inwards look and take a self inventory..before you accuse anyone here of deception. I do not recall hearing this gent speak anything of five point calvinism,which is a false gospel.
You've been warned..
 
May 2, 2011
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#20
pretty hard to agree with the standingthegap crowd...they deny it is The Lord's Righteousness.

Adam and Eve given the promise of a redeemer....given animal skins the Lord killed...for them...and on and on.
the Gospel of God's Work in reconciling us to Himself is pushed aside, even though it is EVERYWHERE in the real Testimony of Him Who died for us.

it is another gospel.

Sometimes I think posts here are in reference to a person's doctrinal position based on past posts. I sometimes get lost in the context of the current thread or post when a claim is made about something that seems to be implied. Surely when a person has a doctrinal position their other posts may allude to previous posts on that position. However, in order to address each doctrine or issue as it is presented I try to address the issue at hand (* with doctrinal prejudices in mind that may bend or twist a concept).

There is a thread on here that relates to Paul's being 'all things to all people' which I thought was good. I will find and post it if anyone is interested.

Sometimes I actually think that there are entire groups of people that are indeed 'totally depraved' and 'born in sin' as these people are in false religions and false belief systems and cults. When speaking to them, some address them in that way. Unfortunately they preach that same gospel to the broadcast world without context or affirmation that not everyone is in such a system. For example, most denominational religions are off base and are thus 'born into a sinful system' and a core of that error is a depravity of truth. I think entire nations, as an entity are that way, the UK among them based on culture and leadership, organizations and practices within such a nation or culture - St Andrews Cross indeed!

Sadly, I don't think the Calvinists can get out of or past their own self deceptions and delusions in order to be able to reach others. I believe John MacArthur is one of the greater teachers of our time (a time coming to an end). Yet, I hold that while he is outside the Baptist-Calvinist approach, he holds to a Calvinistic view in many teachings. Unlike a Charles Stanley Baptist type preaching tho, where each sermon seems 90 percent ok, 5 percent questionable and 5 percent wrong ... MacArthur's teachings as an entirety appear to be 95 percent correct on major doctrines, and 5 percent incorrect in particular areas (e.g. see above in re:Calvinism and past discussions on Benjamin Warfield and MacArthur's affirmations).

If we hold this thread to the doctrine of Repentance, perhaps we can come to the title of the thread:
: A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance

That may require from time to time a mid course correction on frame of reference and context ...