A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance

rauleetoe · Jan 18, 2013

Your whole theory of repentance is way off, since you believe mankind in born depraved and unable to repent, original sin is a false pagan teachings, which has been covered well on these liberal posts!

Would do you some good to see your error and then get real repentance and faith right, all through the word of God, Its repentance unto salvation, another words you do not get saved as a vile sinner as you allude to, then repent sometime later, NO WAY!

Hope this helps!

When they say Repent

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Luke24:47
In the Present Day Church System Repentance has come to mean something Entirely different than the Bible definition. When they say ‘Repent’ (and many of them have eliminated the word from their vocabulary) it suggests a ‘TRUSTING’ in some kind of theological arrangement that fits into their systematic understanding of Scripture. In reality this is far removed from what Jesus and the Apostles Preached for the remission of Sins.
The Solid Foundation of following Christ is a Departure from Sin. (2Tim2:19) Remove this fundamental Premise from Repentance and you negate the entire process. Under Present theology man is Born a sinner having been imputed with the guilt of Adam and thereby incapable of free will. Thus this necessitates the creation of ‘Doctrine’ to bring about his Salvation apart from any effort on his part. So Repenting (if preached at all) means an Apology for ‘a nature’ you have no control over. The Best God can do is Save you ‘in your sins’, impute you with the Righteousness and Obedience of Jesus and then Pretend you’re no longer a vile sinner because you’re under Grace.
Since you Can’t forsake a ‘Nature’ (inbred into your flesh) a ‘Willingness’ to stop sinning qualifies for real Salvation. As long as you’re ‘Coming out’ of your sins, gradually, sinning less and less, it qualifies for real Salvation. Although in an effort to protest their faulty theology many preachers will say that the lack of fruit bearing translates into a false conversion. (Obvious Contradiction!) But bottom line they all insist that Salvation is ‘Not of Works’ (Eph2:8-9) and no one can Judge, so they well NEVER actually tell anyone that their behavior may jeopardize the outcome of their Salvation. Again, you’re ‘willingness’ is enough. You express that with a sorrowful apology and God will forgive.
However the Repentance in Scripture uses an ENTIRELY different language that’s completely foreign to Present day theology. First of all the Message is always addressed to the human Mind under the full assumption of Free Will ability to respond. God Does Not Coerce, He invites man to make a Choice. That’s why He Demands that Repentance and Faith be Proven by DEEDS! (Acts26:18) Notice the Vast difference in verbal communication:
”Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord”
”Listen and TURN from your evil ways!”
”Amend your ways and your doings and Obey the Lord!”
”He who covers his sins shall not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them shall find mercy.”
”Come Out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord!”

No one in genuine repentance Presumes upon the Lord. They seek Reconciliation in brokenness and humility expecting nothing. Note the King of Nineveh directing his city to Turn:
Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? Jonah3:7-9.

When the Lord Himself spoke of Repentance in Matt12:38-42, he compared the Present Message preached to the message of Jonah, which includes an obvious departure from Sin in the Repentance Process. There wasn’t merely a ‘Willingness’ to Stop Sinning in Nineveh or some kind of apology to God for being sinful. The People got CLEAR of their Wrong Doing and Cried out to the Lord. They Obeyed the voice of the Prophet and PROVED it by their Deeds. This Matches Perfectly with the Model of Repentance explained in 2Cor7:10-11……

For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Real Repentance Produces an Outcome:
Diligence to DO what is Right!
Clearing of Wrong Doing!
Fear of God
Vehement Desire Change
And PURITY of Heart
WHERE is any of this in the ‘TRUST’ Model?
You Apologize for being a sinner
Repeat some words
Then Trust you have Received Jesus into your heart
The Sin remains. The Bondage stays put. You’re a Slave to Who you Obey convinced you’re a child of God by proxy. (John8:39) Yet NO WHERE did Jesus EVER tell anyone to ‘Trust’ in His finished Work and Receive Him as their Personal Savior! Instead He told them to:

OBEY His Commands, Keep His Word, Put their hand to the Plow, Count the Cost, Take up your Cross, Be DOERS of the Word! Go and Sin no more. Deny yourself, Follow Me!
HOW Does any of this Translate into ‘Trust’ ? Is a Person trying to ‘Save themselves’ by Obeying God, Or Doing the Works of Righteousness? (1John3:7-8) It’s easy to be a hypocrite and follow the crowd down the wide Road to Destruction. You believe your preachers are saying all the Right things and they have your best interest at heart. But the Message is founded in Error based on a theology that Promises you Liberty in your sin. (2Pet2:18) In Salvation you Remain a Self-Confessed: ‘Wretched Man’, ‘Chief’ of Sinners, Double Minded, COVERED by Grace!
Instead of Repentance proven by Deeds, you TRUSTED in a Doctrine invented by men. In the Manner which you heard the message it ‘seems’ you have something. BUT what you have is Shifting Sands that will taken away at the Judgment. (Lk8:32)
Today’s Professing Christians are Vile and full of evil dispositions. They will not yield to Biblical truth
or crucify the passions and desires of their flesh. The preachers have them convinced that God will forgive all their sins because of Grace. They read the Bible but remain Blind to its precepts. (Never able to come to a knowledge of the truth! 2Tim3:7)
They have fallen Prey to Strong Delusion and given in to the error of the wicked. They Seem to have the upper hand with a Fashion of Christianity, but it’s a complete counterfeit. You’re only chance to escape these lies is to Come Out Now or be Judged with them. www.standingthegap.org

Sadly I find with many calvinists is that they are more interested in Parroting the five points aka 'the doctrines of grace' than ever becoming a disciple..and bearing fruit. Alas, one must pray for them..you warned them..you told them..they will be without excuse now.

Tan · Jan 18, 2013

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul said, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. (Hebrews 10: 26)

SarahM777 · Jan 18, 2013

rauleetoe said:

On this we do agree but we do need to remember we have not made it yet. If we can get these four things and that to know Him more,to Love Him more,to trust Him more and to obey Him you have the heart and soul of what God has been trying to get through to us on. And we are to hold on to Jesus with out that part we're in trouble. Because He is the straight gate,the narrow door,and the only way to the Father

rauleetoe · Jan 18, 2013

SarahM777 said:

And that is all I am implying Sarah!
Many will misunderstand my emphasis..thats fine..they know not where I have been nor know why its of such importance to me. We can make it..and need not become weary in well doing because right now some of us have not fully attained it all..What did Paul say? He pressed on..and pressed forward toward the calling..towards Christ..forgetting the past(i at times am haunted by the past, my struggle) But we are to push all that aside..and live as strongly as we can(in him only of course) each day..
why some despise me for saying this..i will never get that.

Ariel82 · Jan 18, 2013

alright begin with the false statements about others beliefs.. you should repent for bearing false witness...

Tommy4Christ said:

under line is lie number 1: no one says that men have no control over their sinful nature. it is merely stated that you must ask God to help you overcome that nature. without God it is all futile. it is not an apology but a cry for help.

lie number 2. you don't pretend to no longer be a vile sinner. you accept being washed clean and try and live your life under the direction of God's Holy Spirit being convicted by His Holy Spirit if you stumble off the narrow path. You ARE a new creation.

Ariel82 · Jan 18, 2013

perhaps because your message is mixed with judgemental statements and lies about others beliefs?

here I'll point out the obvious lies in RED.

rauleetoe said:

90 percent you say?

and you wonder why people might react negatively to your message?

hmmm...

ps. don't most people depise you, most don't even know you. they probably just despise the lies they see you trapped in.

if you don't understand what true divine election means than I would not despise you, just pray that God will one day open your eyes to see His peace and His promises concerning that topic.

rauleetoe · Jan 18, 2013

Ariel82 said:

The word is clear..that he who says he is a christian ought to walk as Christ walked..
The elect are these who walk with God..not according to five point calvinism,which says how you walk does not matter at all. I know enough about calvinism and possibly know more about it than many here, and know that there are dangers of antinomianism that lie within it. So, i reject it.
What lies do you speak of? Living for God, That God is holy? What bible do you refer to?
He is Holy..he does require us to walk with him..what part of this do you reject?
Sorry if it offends your reformed tradition..but I would rather you be offended and think of the possible implications of reform theology and what it teaches(that God is a respector of persons,that you can sin to your hearts content..that God is not sincere when he said to choose life,because you cannot choose on your own)
I can do this all day..
What i read in the Bible is that he is not a respector of persons..and each man will get his due.
collosians 3:25..
Whatever a man sows..that and that alone he shall reap..
galatians 6:7-8
so..let us not be weary in well doing..for in due season we shall reap(if we faint not)verse 9 of that chapter..

Hebrews 3:14 We are partakers of Christ, IF(and only if) we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast until the end!(the end meaning finishing well..as Paul did)

Romans 11:21..for if God did not spare the natural branches..take heed..lest he also spare not thee.
hmm..that means we need not point to an election and only to this 'place' and not seek to work out our salvation with fear and trembling..phillipians 2:12-13 which is the work of God in you(lest you resist it)
and that you may be(here goes the kicker) blameless! and without rebuke! verse 15..in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation..

so..what part of this do you disagree with again? Because i do not advocate the simply believe but believe that true belief requires a sincere and real response?

Ariel82 · Jan 18, 2013

you don't read real well do you?

I'll keep it simple:

LIE: Calvinism = antinomianism

*you got a real axe to grind with Calvin don't you?

Lie: 90% of the people on here meet the description you painted. I don't even know of one who meets the following false accusations you have made:

1. they vehemently hate the holy life that God offers to all christians..
2. their God is their stomach..
3. 'alleged election' is a fruitless fig tree ready to be cursed by Jesus and to be dried up at the roots.
4. they hate all that is holy.
5. they merely want to sin as much as possible..

You have falsely accused at least 90% of the people on this chat site and you should repent and apologize. However I doubt your pride will you allow you to admit you misspoke.

Instead you will try to change your stance and pretend you never sinned in the first place.

I'm not going to get into it with you. Just clarifying my meaning.

SarahM777 · Jan 18, 2013

Tommy4Christ said:

John 6

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”

32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Romans 10

10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”[a] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

1 John 5

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

John 11

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

John 12

44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

John 14

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

John 16

“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4 I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, 5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

John 20

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

I don't know I thought this was pretty clear,and if we believe we will obey out of love because of what Jesus
did for us. Which should be the motive of the heart.

Ariel82 · Jan 18, 2013

tribesman said:

The Apostle Paul illustrates this clearly in Philippians 3:3-10. In true Gospel faith and repentance a sinner comes to see and trust that Christ’s righteousness alone entitles him to all of salvation, including the subjective work of the Spirit, before he makes any efforts to obey God and persevere. In this specific light, he comes to see that before faith, his best efforts at obedience, all that he highly esteemed and thought was profitable in recommending him unto God, is now “loss,” no more than “dung” (Philippians 3:7-8) in light of Christ’s obedience and death. What he before thought was pleasing unto God and works of the Spirit, he now sees as “flesh” (Philippians 3:3-4). What he once highly esteemed, he is now ashamed of it (Romans 6:21) and now, in light of the Gospel, counts it as fruit unto death, dead works, and evil deeds. He now sees that before faith, before believing that Christ’s righteousness alone entitled him to all of salvation, his thoughts of God were all wrong and that the god he worshipped and served then is an idol. Therefore, in repentance, he turns from that idol to serve the true and living God (1 Thessalonians 1:9).

A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance « Jesus is Lord! <- link

this paragraph should be examined in more detail by those who continually misunderstand the message of how Jesus cleanses versus self righteous works salvation.

zone · Jan 18, 2013

good posts sarah

SarahM777 · Jan 18, 2013

Thanks Zone,

John is my favorite Gospel.

zone · Jan 18, 2013

SarahM777 said:

mine too, by far

SarahM777 · Jan 19, 2013

Jesus also said other things that imply trust. How many times did He talk about our Father in Heaven? Didn't He also say this

Matthew 18

18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Matthew 19

13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Little children trust their parents. We would better understand if in most cases we would read where Jesus says believe in me and replace it with trust in me. Trust goes into the motives of the heart. Belief can be just a head knowledge. Trust goes much deeper then just believe.

Believe just means this

a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2
: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3
: to hold an opinion

Trust on the other hand means this

1
a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something
b : one in which confidence is placed
2
a : dependence on something future or contingent : hope
b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered : credit <bought furniture on trust>
3
a : a property interest held by one person for the benefit of another
b : a combination of firms or corporations formed by a legal agreement; especially : one that reduces or threatens to reduce competition
4
archaic : trustworthiness
5
a (1) : a charge or duty imposed in faith or confidence or as a condition of some relationship (2) : something committed or entrusted to one to be used or cared for in the interest of another
b : responsible charge or office

Trust is much higher and deeper then just believe is. And that is something the Lord taught me over the years. I believed for a long time,I always knew it was true. I was raised Lutheran,and went to a Lutheran school for 9 years. I was taught it every day. I accepted it as being true but that in and of itself can not change the heart. There's a big difference between accepting it as true and becoming reliant on Him,depending on His strength,character,ability,and having confidence in Him which is exactly what is asking for.See when James says the demons believe they accept it as being true,but that's as far as it goes.

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A Clear Understanding of Gospel Repentance

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