A Distinction Between Tongues

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CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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This is how an apostate operates. Youmay choose to be reprobate from the truth but it will not be because I failed to warn you.

Christ is the complete focus of the scriptures. Tongues are of no value in proclaiming Christ. It no longer requires knowledge gifted and not learned to proclaim Christ. All the prophecy has been given.

Some speak with swelling words but are like clouds and wind without rain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
yes I know that is how an apostate operates I'm glad you know yourself very well :). And it seems you are getting a little muddled.
yes, a reprobate from YOUR Truth, Yep I don't read the gospel of "notuptome". You have not failed to warn anyone you are not a Prophet that office is done away with remember !!!? Long with all the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for your edification :)
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,417
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The bible says that three gifts ended. You cannot change that proclamation from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
really? Too bad you don't have any Biblical support of your conjecture.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,509
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Don't make insults just provide the Biblical Proof where it says " the Gift of the Holy Spirit have ceased" or The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today". OK do that way you and I don't have to worry about muddled and assert your false and I'm false OK.

BIBle
But you are not able to answer my post. Ignoring is also an good answer.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,858
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History does not change. Study Wm. Seymour and Azusa Street before you say too much.

history is constantly rewritten

or don't you keep up with politics? :LOL:

other than that, you are often attempting to overwrite scripture

notice I said attempting
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,858
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Well the point is that if anyone was filled with the Holy Spirit 100% of the time, it was Christ. Yet he spoke only Aramaic (and Hebrew when necessary). The same would apply to John the Baptizer.

I don't believe Christ spoke in tongues but since the Holy Spirit was sent to each believer AFTER Christ ascended, and Christ was the one who said He had to leave so the Spirit could be sent....

well duh
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I have no issue with your opinion that the gifts have ceased, what I will not put up with is people saying it is demonic, related to sex and slavery. Again if you don't believe in miracles, you're entitled to your opinion. I believe many a person here can testify to miracles done in their lives,as I have my own. If you don't believe God is powerful enough to heal then you won't see a miracle. That's a box of your own making, I leave you to it. But sex, slavery and voodoo, no, that is utter nonsense and I will not let that pass without comment.
the devil really hates genuine tongues

and he is not going to speak pretty through anyone who chooses to follow his well laid path
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,858
4,336
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If you had the gifts, you would be a world wide top story.

and maybe get yourself crucified

oops

or how 'bout those Israelites with all those miracles and making themselves an idol the moment they had a moment to themselves

you know little about human nature, sin or the fallen world in which we live

you sure do have a big opinion though

They didn't mock Peter, or Paul when working miracles.
and the story goes Peter was crucified upside down and Paul was imprisoned

you do not understand the hatred people have for God
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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This was in Acts. The Epistles show an absence of the gifts.

“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
If what you are arguing about is whether all Christians in the Bible were all constantly healthy, you would have a valid argument.

As I have pointed out repeatedly, Paul got sick and the sickness led him to Galatia. They would have removed their eyes and given them to him. So he probably had an eye disease. The churches planted in Acts 14 are probably the recipients of the epistle to Galatia. If not, Acts 16 specifically tells us that he went to Galatia. So Paul's eye disease occurred at least before Acts 16.

The great miracles worked through Paul, such as cloths from his body being brought to the sick and their being healed, happened later in Acts AFTER Paul got sick and which caused him to first visit Galatia. Healing all the sick brought to him on an island happened near the end of the book of Acts.

We just have evidence that sometimes the apostles and their coworkers got sick. If you think spiritual gifts were superpowers used at will, that disproves your point of view, unless you think Paul just wanted himself or others sick. You could argue with these verses against some Charismatics positions on health and healing, but they in no way support your theory of gifts related to healing going away in the first century, since Paul did miracles after he was sick or injured.

And we are not given details. It could be that Epaphroditus was healed from a sickness to the point of death after Paul or someone else laid hands on him. God had mercy on him. We do not know if the healing was instant or gradual, but we should be thankful to God no matter how He heals.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,836
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If what you are arguing about is whether all Christians in the Bible were all constantly healthy, you would have a valid argument.

As I have pointed out repeatedly, Paul got sick and the sickness led him to Galatia. They would have removed their eyes and given them to him. So he probably had an eye disease. The churches planted in Acts 14 are probably the recipients of the epistle to Galatia. If not, Acts 16 specifically tells us that he went to Galatia. So Paul's eye disease occurred at least before Acts 16.

The great miracles worked through Paul, such as cloths from his body being brought to the sick and their being healed, happened later in Acts AFTER Paul got sick and which caused him to first visit Galatia. Healing all the sick brought to him on an island happened near the end of the book of Acts.

We just have evidence that sometimes the apostles and their coworkers got sick. If you think spiritual gifts were superpowers used at will, that disproves your point of view, unless you think Paul just wanted himself or others sick. You could argue with these verses against some Charismatics positions on health and healing, but they in no way support your theory of gifts related to healing going away in the first century, since Paul did miracles after he was sick or injured.

And we are not given details. It could be that Epaphroditus was healed from a sickness to the point of death after Paul or someone else laid hands on him. God had mercy on him. We do not know if the healing was instant or gradual, but we should be thankful to God no matter how He heals.
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10)

Paul was there and didn't heal anyone. He told Timothy to take medicine. = the gifts were mostly gone by then.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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But many saw it. Nobody sees what you claim.
If you'll read the research multitudes of people believe in miracles, say God heals, they have experienced it, etc. in surveys. There are accounts of miracles throughout history.

Are you being disingenuous with your response or did you actually go through YouTube and examine all the healings from crusades and street ministers? Did you read _Miracles_ by Keener and can you refute his claim that the argument of Hume that miracles are inconsistent with human experience is false? Are you going to refute all his evidence for miracles in historical and contemporary times? Or are you just blowing out hot air out of your hinder parts and spewing it on the forum?
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
2,836
466
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If you'll read the research multitudes of people believe in miracles, say God heals, they have experienced it, etc. in surveys. There are accounts of miracles throughout history.

Are you being disingenuous with your response or did you actually go through YouTube and examine all the healings from crusades and street ministers? Did you read _Miracles_ by Keener and can you refute his claim that the argument of Hume that miracles are inconsistent with human experience is false? Are you going to refute all his evidence for miracles in historical and contemporary times? Or are you just blowing out hot air out of your hinder parts and spewing it on the forum?
None of it stands up. The church would be doing miracles all along if they were still in place. A few fringe groups pretend to have them but none of that stands up either.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,163
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None of it stands up. The church would be doing miracles all along if they were still in place. A few fringe groups pretend to have them but none of that stands up either.
I think you are referring to healing as signs and wonders, as done in the 4 Gospels and Acts.

That type of healing has now ceased, for a very good reason, those are done to authenticate the Gospel of the Kingdom.

But Israel has rejected their Messiah
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,526
465
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I think you are referring to healing as signs and wonders, as done in the 4 Gospels and Acts.

That type of healing has now ceased, for a very good reason, those are done to authenticate the Gospel of the Kingdom.

But Israel has rejected their Messiah
One knows authentic healing still occurs because people are still becoming believers. Jesus, Himself said: "...signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:15-18

Jesus' statement is confirmed in the Book of Acts. The record provides illustration of Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritan's speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:1, 8: 12-17, 10:44-48, etc.) Paul is used to heal Jews, Gentiles, etc. by laying hands on the sick. (Acts 14:10, 19:11-12, 20:10-12, 28:8) Paul is unharmed after being bitten by a serpent. (Acts 28:5) And, demons are cast out. (Acts 16:18)

Jesus does not lie and He said: "Truly, truly, I tell you, WHOEVER believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son..." John 14:12-13
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,163
576
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One knows authentic healing still occurs because people are still becoming believers. Jesus, Himself said: "...signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:15-18

Jesus' statement is confirmed in the Book of Acts. The record provides illustration of Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritan's speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:1, 8: 12-17, 10:44-48, etc.) Paul is used to heal Jews, Gentiles, etc. by laying hands on the sick. (Acts 14:10, 19:11-12, 20:10-12, 28:8) Paul is unharmed after being bitten by a serpent. (Acts 28:5) And, demons are cast out. (Acts 16:18)

Jesus does not lie and He said: "Truly, truly, I tell you, WHOEVER believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son..." John 14:12-13
I repeat, signs and wonders are done to authenticate the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The Jewish leaders repeatedly reject the Holy Spirit, who was the member of the Trinity responsible for these signs and wonders in Acts.

Acts 4 The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

16 “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. 17 But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.”

Peter witnessed for himself how, despite the Holy Spirit giving them signs and wonders to verify their message to the Jewish nation, the leaders are determined to reject God. Peter also knew what happened to Stephen in Acts 6 and 7

8 Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people. 9 Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)—Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asia—who began to argue with Stephen. 10 But they could not stand up against the wisdom the Spirit gave him as he spoke.

15 All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen, and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel.

Acts 7
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
====

When Peter heard of this account, I strongly suspect he sensed that the Jewish nation is determined to reject what the Holy Spirit is doing in Israel through them. The Great Commission that Jesus gave them in Matthew 28 was not going to be fulfilled, the Jewish leaders are committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by rejecting their message, which under the Law of Moses, was an unforgivable sin.

By the time Peter witnessed in Acts 10 that God is granting the Gentiles the Holy Spirit, indicating that God is now saving Gentiles without them having to do what Peter believed must be done in Acts 2:38, that is to repent and be baptized, Peter could sense that God is phasing out the Kingdom gospel to usher in a new program, which we now know as the Gospel of Grace.