A Distinction Between Tongues

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Where are the signs and wonders in the Epistles? It means God already started removing the gifts.
No, it does not. That is an assertion.

James chapter five clearly refutes that claim.

James 5:13-15 ESV
"13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven".

1cor 12: 1

"Now concerning[a] spiritual gifts,[b] brothers,[c] I do not want you to be uninformed."

Why would he inform the church of spiritual gifts that were not to be continued? and then end the context with:

1cor 14:39 "So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But all things should be done decently and in order."

Paul wasted his breath to even say that because it all ends in 1cor 13:8-10.

Rom 12:6
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;

Heb 2:4
while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

These are teaching not to the Apostles only but they are to the church as a whole Past, present, and future.

If you do not see that then you don't.
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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The Holy Spirit revealed HIM through the preaching of the Gospel. 1cor 1:21

" For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

For your information Paul did not have a New Testament to read from. Nor did the early church of Acts. They had only the Old Testament and what ? The Eyewitnesses and testimony of them that Preached to those we see in Acts chapter 2 as Jesus commanded them to "GO and Preach the Gospel" . Thats how. And guess what, The Gifts of the Holy Spirit was with them and the Holy Spirit is with us to Today and so are HIS Gifts even the ones you hate. :)
We are not in the first century apostolic church. We have the complete canon of scripture, the perfect of which Paul said would come.

Once again I state clearly that only three gifts have ended not all the gifts. The problem is that you want tongues to continue no matter what the word of God declares.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

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May 17, 2013
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Notuptome 1cor 13:8-10 which I have read many times does not say " The gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease". You and those like you interjected that into the scripture and verse because of your bias against the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
You persist in making statements that have never represented what I have claimed from scripture. Do you have a bias against the truth?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 17, 2020
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No, it does not. That is an assertion.

James chapter five clearly refutes that claim.

James 5:13-15 ESV
"13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven".

1cor 12: 1

"Now concerning[a] spiritual gifts,[b] brothers,[c] I do not want you to be uninformed."

Why would he inform the church of spiritual gifts that were not to be continued? and then end the context with:

1cor 14:39 "So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But all things should be done decently and in order."

Paul wasted his breath to even say that because it all ends in 1cor 13:8-10.

Rom 12:6
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;

Heb 2:4
while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

These are teaching not to the Apostles only but they are to the church as a whole Past, present, and future.

If you do not see that then you don't.
We still have the prayer of faith that heals the sick. But the signs and wonders expired just as they did with Moses, after they served their purpose.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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The biblical record expresses that everyone must receive the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into their body. This occurs via the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:1, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6) These recorded events depict how and when the Holy Spirit is given to mankind by God. Apostle Paul makes this clear to the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:2-6. Paul's first words upon approaching the individuals is "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed." His comment expresses that belief in the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit take place separately.
infiltration of the Holy Spirit? That is wrong on so many levels. The Holy Spirit does not Infiltrate a person.

YOu don't know what you are saying.

Jesus said He the Holy Spirit is a comforter. In the Greek is the Parkeltertos the one who comes alongside to help John chapter 14

Jesus said HE the Holy Spirit "Comforter in John 14 would be with you and IN YOU. Not infiltrate.

The Holy Spirit is not looking to hide inside.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Again, rightly dividing the word of truth comes into play in order to gain correct understanding.

There is a difference between ministry gifts given by Jesus during His ascension (Eph 4:8-13), and Spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12 & 14).

Ministry gifts, ie, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher require one's ordination through the laying on of hands. This concept is seen in scriptures such as, 1 Timothy 4:14, 2 Tim. 1:6, Titus 1:5, Acts 6:6, 13:3.

Scripture confirms Timothy was a minister/pastor and an evangelist. And Titus was sent as the Apostle Paul's delegate to Corinth. And later traveled with Paul to Crete and stayed there to assist churches and ordain elders. These tasks are associated with the office of apostle, evangelist, and pastor.

Spiritual gifts are distributed by the Holy Spirit and do not require the laying on of hands:

"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." 1 Cor 12:8-11
The Spirit used the Apostles. It's not what you've been taught.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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You persist in making statements that have never represented what I have claimed from scripture. Do you have a bias against the truth?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Just prove your false point with the word of God I don't need your conjecture about 1cor 13:8-10. You have not proven your point biblically the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased and continued to deflect to false narratives when you are called on it. YOu are not the truth you are not the authority of the word of God you are a prideful man who has in the past stated you have never been corrected. If one does not agree with you then they are not in the truth ..... Your truth. Well, scubala to that.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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No, it does not. That is an assertion.

James chapter five clearly refutes that claim.

James 5:13-15 ESV
"13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven".

1cor 12: 1

"Now concerning[a] spiritual gifts,[b] brothers,[c] I do not want you to be uninformed."

Why would he inform the church of spiritual gifts that were not to be continued? and then end the context with:

1cor 14:39 "So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But all things should be done decently and in order."

Paul wasted his breath to even say that because it all ends in 1cor 13:8-10.

Rom 12:6
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;

Heb 2:4
while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

These are teaching not to the Apostles only but they are to the church as a whole Past, present, and future.

If you do not see that then you don't.
Why then this teaching came up in 1901 and is not found and taught during whole churchhistory? Speaking in tongues is taught since 1901 as a sign for be baptised with the Holy Spirit. But you cant find this teaching with Paul. Paul teaches that speaking in tongues is a gift like each other. And he mentioned it as smallest gift. Since 1901 it became the most important gift and make the differenz between a "real" believer and and believer.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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infiltration of the Holy Spirit? That is wrong on so many levels. The Holy Spirit does not Infiltrate a person.

YOu don't know what you are saying.

Jesus said He the Holy Spirit is a comforter. In the Greek is the Parkeltertos the one who comes alongside to help John chapter 14

Jesus said HE the Holy Spirit "Comforter in John 14 would be with you and IN YOU. Not infiltrate.

The Holy Spirit is not looking to hide inside.
Woops. I used the wrong word. I meant the Holy Spirit fills the human body entirely.

Thank you for pointing out my error.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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We are not in the first century apostolic church. We have the complete canon of scripture, the perfect of which Paul said would come.

Once again I state clearly that only three gifts have ended not all the gifts. The problem is that you want tongues to continue no matter what the word of God declares.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
no, he did not say that and you can't prove that you assume that God's word is and has always been perfect.
No, it is not that I want tongues to continue as you falsely claim. The truth is the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have not stopped.

Your pride and arrogance cause you to say things LIKE " when as the dead been raised, who has been healed. Then when those provide the context to the story where such things have happened you mock, scoff and lambast. Why? because you think your knowledge of the word of God makes you better than the rest of us. You are hypocrite, that is what you say pentecostal do because they speak in tongues. You both are wrong.

Eph 4:11-13
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

That has not happened and the gifts have not ceased and the Edifying of the BODY of Christ continues.

2 Tim 2:1-7

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. (the Holy Spirit)And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That about sums it up right there :)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Just prove your false point with the word of God I don't need your conjecture about 1cor 13:8-10. You have not proven your point biblically the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased and continued to deflect to false narratives when you are called on it. YOu are not the truth you are not the authority of the word of God you are a prideful man who has in the past stated you have never been corrected. If one does not agree with you then they are not in the truth ..... Your truth. Well, scubala to that.
Still you continue to make statements that are based on personal opinion and dislike for me. I have stated that scripture declares that three gifts ended with the completion of the NT.

What does scripture say of those who claim a false gift? Proverbs 25:14

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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The biblical record expresses that everyone must receive the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into their body. This occurs via the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:1, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6) These recorded events depict how and when the Holy Spirit is given to mankind by God. Apostle Paul makes this clear to the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:2-6. Paul's first words upon approaching the individuals is "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed." His comment expresses that belief in the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit take place separately.
Should have stated everyone must receive the infilling, not infiltration, of God's Holy Spirit into their body.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Still you continue to make statements that are based on personal opinion and dislike for me. I have stated that scripture declares that three gifts ended with the completion of the NT.

What does scripture say of those who claim a false gift? Proverbs 25:14

For the cause of Christ
Roger
LOL Nope not at all you can't read where they scriptures were properly used for the Biblical understanding I have :)> and dislike nope. I the problem you have is you associate false gifts with all and then do as the Pharisees did yo Jesu on the Cross or after HE fed the thousands with a few fish and bread Show us a miracle. Then when one is given you try to disprove with you human reasoning LOL.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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no, he did not say that and you can't prove that you assume that God's word is and has always been perfect.
No, it is not that I want tongues to continue as you falsely claim. The truth is the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have not stopped.

Your pride and arrogance cause you to say things LIKE " when as the dead been raised, who has been healed. Then when those provide the context to the story where such things have happened you mock, scoff and lambast. Why? because you think your knowledge of the word of God makes you better than the rest of us. You are hypocrite, that is what you say pentecostal do because they speak in tongues. You both are wrong.

Eph 4:11-13
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

That has not happened and the gifts have not ceased and the Edifying of the BODY of Christ continues.

2 Tim 2:1-7

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. (the Holy Spirit)And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That about sums it up right there :)
Now you are deflecting and sidestepping the issue. No one is averring that Ephesians 4 ended nor 2 Tim 2. The gifts of the Holy Spirit continue except the three Paul listed in 1 Cor 13. You can only change that by cutting that section of scripture from your bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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LOL Nope not at all you can't read where they scriptures were properly used for the Biblical understanding I have :)> and dislike nope. I the problem you have is you associate false gifts with all and then do as the Pharisees did yo Jesu on the Cross or after HE fed the thousands with a few fish and bread Show us a miracle. Then when one is given you try to disprove with you human reasoning LOL.
Is your mind really as muddled as this post reveals? You make up so many false arguments that are not even germane to the subject I doubt that even you can read your posts and glean what you are trying to say.

Good luck.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Now you are deflecting and sidestepping the issue. No one is averring that Ephesians 4 ended nor 2 Tim 2. The gifts of the Holy Spirit continue except the three Paul listed in 1 Cor 13. You can only change that by cutting that section of scripture from your bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Please you have in the past tried this foolish attempt. AS you know or should know. that 1cor chapter 12 through the end of chapter 14 are unit chapters. If you remove the chapters and verses as it was originally written with them. The context is clearly seen. If you think that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased based on 1cor 13:8-10 you don't know how to read your Bible in context. Has knowledge vanished away?
the word "Perfect" inverse 10 But when that which is perfect is come, meaning the canonized Bible removes the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is laughable. And it would not be the hated tongues you so much have issues with it would mean the gifts.

There is no healing
tongues
word of knowledge
word of wisdom
gift of faith
working of miracles;
prophecy;
discerning of spirits;
divers kinds of tongues;
interpretation of tongues:

all of that is no more you say?

wow, Sorry guys just rip out chapters 12 and 14 of 1cor because they are not contextual by this guys standard.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
6,751
1,900
113
Is your mind really as muddled as this post reveals? You make up so many false arguments that are not even germane to the subject I doubt that even you can read your posts and glean what you are trying to say.

Good luck.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Don't make insults just provide the Biblical Proof where it says " the Gift of the Holy Spirit have ceased" or The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today". OK do that way you and I don't have to worry about muddled and assert your false and I'm false OK.

BIBle
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
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Please you have in the past tried this foolish attempt. AS you know or should know. that 1cor chapter 12 through the end of chapter 14 are unit chapters. If you remove the chapters and verses as it was originally written with them. The context is clearly seen. If you think that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased based on 1cor 13:8-10 you don't know how to read your Bible in context. Has knowledge vanished away?
the word "Perfect" inverse 10 But when that which is perfect is come, meaning the canonized Bible removes the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is laughable. And it would not be the hated tongues you so much have issues with it would mean the gifts.

There is no healing
tongues
word of knowledge
word of wisdom
gift of faith
working of miracles;
prophecy;
discerning of spirits;
divers kinds of tongues;
interpretation of tongues:

all of that is no more you say?

wow, Sorry guys just rip out chapters 12 and 14 of 1cor because they are not contextual by this guys standard.
This is how an apostate operates. Youmay choose to be reprobate from the truth but it will not be because I failed to warn you.

Christ is the complete focus of the scriptures. Tongues are of no value in proclaiming Christ. It no longer requires knowledge gifted and not learned to proclaim Christ. All the prophecy has been given.

Some speak with swelling words but are like clouds and wind without rain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
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Don't make insults just provide the Biblical Proof where it says " the Gift of the Holy Spirit have ceased" or The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today". OK do that way you and I don't have to worry about muddled and assert your false and I'm false OK.

BIBle
The bible says that three gifts ended. You cannot change that proclamation from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger