A house divided will not stand

[roaringkitten]

But according to you if they later rely on works they will go to hell. By your own words you have contradicted yourself. And who are you to judge who is saved and not saved?

A person who genuinely gets saved(believes in Christ ALONE) wont even think their good works in any part of their lives keeps them saved......I did not contradict myself. I think you are confused. When I said "add works" its means exactly that, they trusted partly in themselves to get saved(not in Christ ALONE)......You wont get genuinely saved and then one point in your life declare your good works get you into heaven! That would be the ultimate contradiction!

 

[MahogonySnail]

Roaring I'm curious as to where in the bible it says that if a person believes partly in their own works to save them, will be going to the lake of fire? They believe in Jesus, I thought that's all the bible says is required to be saved.

 

[roaringkitten]

Roaring I'm curious as to where in the bible it says that if a person believes partly in their own works to save them, will be going to the lake of fire? They believe in Jesus, I thought that's all the bible says is required to be saved.

I think you 100% understand my position but are here to just debate for the sake of arguing.....


“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” Galatians 1:6-9

I think you know where this is headed. There is ONE gospel.....Does this gospel have ANYWHERE in it where it says our merits(good works) come into play? Saying I believe in Christ and my good works for salvation is utterly rejecting Jesus for believing ANOTHER gospel(In other words they accepted "another Jesus" as 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 explains).....The Word makes it very clear without a shadow of a doubt that our good works do not save us or have ANY part in our salvation.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:6

The Scriptures speak for themselves...Romans 11:6 doesn't allow for it to be PARTLY works and PARTLY grace.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The Word makes it very clear without a shadow of a doubt that our good works do not save us or have ANY part in our salvation.

But faith if it has no works is dead, and that faith cannot save (see James).
So clearly, works does have some part in our salvation.

Is it right for you to take a particular situation in the church at Galatia (specifically, circumcision, observing of feasts etc), and apply it to all or any types of works?

 

[Rosinsky]

I think the whole debate on faith vs. works is really pointless. When you really listen to both sides, they are saying exactly the same thing just from a different angle.

It is clear that we are saved by faith, not by works. However, faith is not faith if it is not accompanied by good works. From reading this thread as well as many other ones in regards to faith and works, it seems that each side goes to the extreme to argue their points in trying to convince the other one to believe their version.

In the end? Both believe that you we are saved by faith and that faith produces works.

I think, and this is only my opinion, that roaringkitten and sinner need to stop as they have turned far too many topics into a faith vs. works debate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getting back on the topic, I totally agree with KingdomGeneration about the division among God's people. I am reminded of this passage in Matthew when I see people who think it is their God given duty to divide between those who they think, based on their understanding of the scriptures, preach or believe another gospel.

Yes, the bible says in Matthew 7 that it is not everyone who is saying "Lord" who is a child of God. But I am reminded of how Jesus instructed to handle this issue. It was not a division.

Matthew 13:24-30 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”

 

[BLC]

The word of God asks a question in (Amos 3:3), 'Can two walk together unless they be agreed'? In relationship to the household and family of God, how can we walk together unless we be agreed? Can a man walk with God if they are not agreed? What does it mean to have agreement? What does it mean to agree with God?

Can anyone explain the agreement in the following verse and how it applies to believers?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1John 5:8 'And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one'.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does the trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit agree in one? [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And what about; 2Cor 6:16, '[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And what [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]agreement [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people'. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul wrote to the church at Corinth concerning many matters that were causing strife and division. In (1Cor 1:10) Paul writes this; 'Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]How about this portion of scripture; Phil 2:1-5 'If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus'. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are saved and cleansed of sin because we agree that Jesus Christ shed His blood and sacrificed His life for our sins and the sins of the world. If some of us did not agree that Christ did that for us, then we would be in unbelief, not cleansed of sin, not having the salvation of Christ and without receiving the Holy Spirit of God. We would be separated from one another, because we do not agree and that is unbelief. Now, if we agree about the cross, the blood and salvation that is provided by the Lamb of God, how much more should we agree on the doctrine of Christ and every word of God that has been left us. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are told to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Should we only agree on the gospel and neglect the doctrine of Christ? Jesus said that the scripture can not be broken (John 10:35). We were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, how much more shall we be saved by His life (Rom 5:10). His life is the word that He speaks to us, which is Spirit and life (John 6:63). We hide that word in our heart that we might not sin against God (Psalm 119:11). Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I believe that Christ is coming back, for His bride (the church) before the seven year tribulation and you believe He is coming after the tribulation, we do not agree and we are divided in our mind, our understanding and in our hearts. I would be looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to come back to take us up at any time, but you would be looking for the tribulation first, not knowing exactly when that seven years started and have to go through the wrath of God's tribulation upon the earth. Has God not delivered us from the wrath to come (1Thes 1:10)? It is not the mind of Christ that we be divided. Division will always cause strife. Where there is strife, there is confusion and every evil work (James 3:16). God is not the author of confusion (1Cor 14:33).[/FONT]

 

[roaringkitten]

ecumenism is of the devil.....compromise compromise compromise......Apostasy....Dont support the ecumenism movement!

 

[MahogonySnail]

Of course there is going to be compromise.

It's people sticking to their fundamentalist beliefs (many of which are only trivial or minor interpretations of the same fundamental doctrine) that cause the problem and divisions in the first place.

 

[MahogonySnail]

And the question is can we be spiritual and mature enough to put the differences aside for the sake of unity. Because if we can't do it here on earth, we'll certainly have to in heaven.

 

[roaringkitten]

It starts with the gospel.......I will never unify with anyone who preaches another gospel......That's for starters..

 

[MahogonySnail]

Well you'll have to sooner or later.

 

[roaringkitten]

What do you mean I will have to soon or later?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Well you might get a surprise who you meet in heaven. And you'll either have to put up with it, or leave.

 

[roaringkitten]

The only people I will meet in heaven are those who trusted Jesus Christ as their Savior.....Those who didn't think they earned heaven by their own merits....I dont believe the joke that only baptists will be in heaven......I even know some people who profess to be catholics who dont even follow the catholic system, but they believe in Christ alone for salvation based upon their testimonies.....

 

[alien]

As for me i believe that the body of christ is only divided based on public opinion, and if we are all trying to reach one goal and step in to Christ as believers why do we have our this is that and that is this, this is true and this is a lie opinions, IF we all believe Jesus Christ is lord and He raised on the 3rd why should anyones opinion are tought be wrong are false. I'll say if im wrong and you know right show me in the word of God where it is and this is true then i will know i was wrong but if whats true for you is whats true for you and whats for me is whats true for me, well what if my true says yours is a lie. we have to both REBUKE!!... pride in the name of JESUS and come together and find the truth from the word of the true living GOD however do it out of love pride will only cause a quarrel and we are all the body of Christ who said who said Christ should punch his self in the chest attacking the heart you mite as well be hurting Gods heart when his children are fighting with in each other. Who really whats to do that

Romans 13:8-14

8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.[c]

1 Corinthians 10:31-33 (New International Version)


31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

[Cookie38115]

Last night I had the pleasure of attending a church service that was held at a local high school where several churches across several denominations (methodists, pentecostals, different forms of baptists) who decided to put aside doctrinal differences and gather together to worship God together in spirit and in truth. During the course of this service the pressence of the Holy Spirit could be felt very strongly. I have been to several different kinds of churches individually and have yet to experience that level the anointing that I witnessed last night on an individual basis. God is definitely up to something in that town. Praise the Lord!

Anyway, the point I would like to make is this. In this forum there is a lot of denominational bickering and banter against other churches. People of this belief declaring that people of that belief are basically going to hell. While I agree that certain churches have strayed somewhat here or there, the truth is, while there doctrine may not be completely sound, we can not condemn an entire congregation. Each congregation, regardless of what denomination, are made up of several individuals. Who are we to judge an entire congregation the spiritual state of every individual according to a distorted lines of doctrine that many may not even be aware of? We can't because we are not the judge. The job belongs to Jesus Christ and Christ alone.

It's time to grow up people. You can continue to argue and cause division all you like but as for me, I put my trust and faith in the Lord that He has a plan for His people in these days. I'm sure that plan involves a church that pure like a virgin bride. Not a church that is filthy and saturated with personal pride.

What happen to the orginal post?? You guys have turn it into something it was not meant to be!

 

[roaringkitten]

What happen to the orginal post?? You guys have turn it into something it was not meant to be!

When it comes to salvation, I hate false gospels which masquerade as the truth. I will expose and report all salvation heresy.....churches that preach a false gospel are spiriutally dead churches. I will never compromise Christianity with a church that cant even understand salvation. That is what ticks me off...professing Christians who do not even understand salvation, and pervert it! Then go around and teach it as if it were the truth! There are many who have no right to even teach anyone because they cant even understand the simple gospel! I feel the words of this verse right now:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:6-9

I am deeply troubled as a believer. That a lot of people are going around teaching a false gospel. Gospels where man has to complete good works to get salvation, that salvation can be lost by Christians, etc....It just frightens me which Jesus people are actually believing!!!(2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...Because the Jesus I know completely saves, and if every Christian could be lost again, then why did Christ even have to die? You know what all other false religions in this world(including catholicism) have in common with each other? Man works his way into heaven, its contingent on man to keep his salvation......People degrade Christianity by saying God will cast off his born again believers into hell if they do not work hard enough(works gospel)....Christ is fully sufficient for us! Is Jesus really a Savior if we can all be lost again? Does it concern anybody on CC what type of witness we give anyone else when so many think Jesus can lose Christians to hell? God have mercy on us!

 

[BLC]

I am deeply troubled as a believer. That a lot of people are going around teaching a false gospel. Gospels where man has to complete good works to get salvation, that salvation can be lost by Christians, etc....It just frightens me which Jesus people are actually believing!!!(2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...Because the Jesus I know completely saves, and if every Christian could be lost again, then why did Christ even have to die? You know what all other false religions in this world(including catholicism) have in common with each other? Man works his way into heaven, its contingent on man to keep his salvation......People degrade Christianity by saying God will cast off his born again believers into hell if they do not work hard enough(works gospel)....Christ is fully sufficient for us! Is Jesus really a Savior if we can all be lost again? Does it concern anybody on CC what type of witness we give anyone else when so many think Jesus can lose Christians to hell? God have mercy on us!

Instead of spending so much energy exposing and reproving these false gospels, take that energy and go and preach the gospel as you know it to be and as God has showed you in your heart and spirit. Maybe you already are, and if your heart is burning with love to win lost souls, continue in that love. Redeem the time for the days are evil. God will take care of all those that preach another Christ and have another spirit or gospel(2Cor 10:16), but don't give up the good fight either. Take the glorious gospel of His grace into all the world. That is what Christ has commanded us to do, and don't look to the right or left put press forward and finish the race, looking for the mercy of our LORD Jesus Christ. According to 'The World Factbook' every 2.4 seconds someone dies and enters into eternity, that is 25 souls every minute or 36,000 every day. The next time you get on your knees to pray, even for just 10 minutes, 250 souls have died and most of them will perish as lost souls. And as you stand before God ask these questions. Did they hear the right gospel? What could I have done to make a difference? How shall they hear without a preacher? Who shall I send and who will go for us (Isaiah 6:8)?

 

[Cookie38115]

God's Gospel, was never intened to divided us, it was intent to make us stronger. What is going on in here is not of God! Because if it was, we would be delived and set free. I Love you all, and want you all to have your own relationship with The Father. Please search your hearts and ask Him is this the path He wants you to take in how we deal with each other and our different beliefs. I believe In One God. I believe that Jesus Christ if my Savior! My Father is so big He shows us different sides of Himself.

Show each other how great our Father is. Be good to each and respect each other.