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B
Well, what does the Bible say?
The Bible's recommendation is to avoid all appearance of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22).
The Bible also says "let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor" and "do all for the glory of God" (1Corinthians 10).
Living together without being married is an open invitation to gossip, to ill thoughts, even to encourage the corruption of others.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, "Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father" (Colossians 3:17). How would you explain to a younger sister that it's okay for her to have a live-in boyfriend as long as she do this in the name of Jesus?
The Lord Jesus Himself said famous words in red, "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 5:15). Perhaps the situation is not about living together, but really about why aren't you both committing to being married?
In conclusion, the consistent theme of the Bible is for Heaven and Earth to glorify God most Holy Sovereign because God alone is good and all things beautiful. May you too find treasure in glorifying God in all that you do.
The Bible's recommendation is to avoid all appearance of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22).
The Bible also says "let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor" and "do all for the glory of God" (1Corinthians 10).
Living together without being married is an open invitation to gossip, to ill thoughts, even to encourage the corruption of others.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, "Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father" (Colossians 3:17). How would you explain to a younger sister that it's okay for her to have a live-in boyfriend as long as she do this in the name of Jesus?
The Lord Jesus Himself said famous words in red, "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 5:15). Perhaps the situation is not about living together, but really about why aren't you both committing to being married?
In conclusion, the consistent theme of the Bible is for Heaven and Earth to glorify God most Holy Sovereign because God alone is good and all things beautiful. May you too find treasure in glorifying God in all that you do.
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T
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience,
ye sin against Christ
I made the word "SIN" in bold, so you can see it better.
What I posted is clear. Are you trying to justify the issue for your own reasons?
There isn't any legit reason why you should fail to see it.
ye sin against Christ
I made the word "SIN" in bold, so you can see it better.
What I posted is clear. Are you trying to justify the issue for your own reasons?
There isn't any legit reason why you should fail to see it.
vs what you "want it to say".
So, marriage is evil? REALLY?
if the cohabitate and have sex, they are married. That isn't evil last time I checked.
Not only are you against marriage, but you don't want married folks living next to you?
Wait, so you think the GOVERNMENT decides for GOD who is married? Where do you get that information from? A piece of paper from the justice of the peace has no meaning to GOD for a marriage commitment.
They would certainly be married in His name and in His eyes.
How would you explain to a younger sister that it's okay for her to have a live-in boyfriend as long as she do this in the name of Jesus?
I'd be proud if she listened and didn't have a marriage that had no God or commitment and resulted in divorce.
They live together, and commit their light is shining.
Presumption.
In conclusion, the consistent theme of the Bible is for Heaven and Earth to glorify God most Holy Sovereign because God alone is good and all things beautiful. May you too find treasure in glorifying God in all that you do.
Ok, is ENGLISH not your native tongue?
Is there a reading or comprehension impediment I need to know about?
What is the sin?
You presume it's a sin.
They are married the minute they have sex.
Period.
ENd of story.
Sin issues wouldn't pop up unless there was an adulterous situation, at least in terms of "married or not".
So, you can keep pretending to be GOD and writing new sins on the faith because..... ummmm.... we....... YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE! OR, you can stick to what the Bible actually says.
Is there a reading or comprehension impediment I need to know about?
What is the sin?
You presume it's a sin.
They are married the minute they have sex.
Period.
ENd of story.
Sin issues wouldn't pop up unless there was an adulterous situation, at least in terms of "married or not".
So, you can keep pretending to be GOD and writing new sins on the faith because..... ummmm.... we....... YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE! OR, you can stick to what the Bible actually says.
HAD you read, or addressed any of this>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<
You PRESUME IT IS A SIN FIRST, to declare it is a bad behavior.
You haven't proven anything.
IT IS NOT A SIN, necessarily, therefore the example would not necessarily be bad.
For you to determine it is a sin for HER, would mean you judge her knowing absolutely nothing about her.
If she lives with him, and they pretend to be bunny rabbits in heat, it is still not a sin, If they honor that commitment to each other. Because for all intents and purposes to GOD they are then........
wait for it..........
hold on......
MARRIED!
If you think having a State's government issued piece of paper admitting you made a commitment to each other is relevant to GOD, Well, I'd like to introduce you to GOD!!!
>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<
Which dealt the answer to your last post before you posted it. You wouldn't look s silly right now.
You just decided I couldn't be right, perhaps? Therefore what I said didn't matter so you didn't even pretend to read it or deal with the positions it explained.
How do you feel when you say something, and yo uare ignored and told yo uare wrong.
THen you answer and show you aren't wrong, and they pretend nothing was said and tell you that you are wrong.
then you answer that comment as well, remind them of the first comment they still haven't addressed,
but they pretend you said nothing and they just repeat, you are wrong.
That's what you are doing here.
I did nothing to you to deserve that sort of disrespect. I understand it is typical Christian behavior. But I'm asking you to step up and be more than normal.
>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<
You PRESUME IT IS A SIN FIRST, to declare it is a bad behavior.
You haven't proven anything.
IT IS NOT A SIN, necessarily, therefore the example would not necessarily be bad.
For you to determine it is a sin for HER, would mean you judge her knowing absolutely nothing about her.
If she lives with him, and they pretend to be bunny rabbits in heat, it is still not a sin, If they honor that commitment to each other. Because for all intents and purposes to GOD they are then........
wait for it..........
hold on......
MARRIED!
If you think having a State's government issued piece of paper admitting you made a commitment to each other is relevant to GOD, Well, I'd like to introduce you to GOD!!!
>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<
Which dealt the answer to your last post before you posted it. You wouldn't look s silly right now.
You just decided I couldn't be right, perhaps? Therefore what I said didn't matter so you didn't even pretend to read it or deal with the positions it explained.
How do you feel when you say something, and yo uare ignored and told yo uare wrong.
THen you answer and show you aren't wrong, and they pretend nothing was said and tell you that you are wrong.
then you answer that comment as well, remind them of the first comment they still haven't addressed,
but they pretend you said nothing and they just repeat, you are wrong.
That's what you are doing here.
I did nothing to you to deserve that sort of disrespect. I understand it is typical Christian behavior. But I'm asking you to step up and be more than normal.
B
Leaving one wrong situation to enter into another wrong situation is never a good solution.
The gal should remain at home and block all abuse, or at the next abuse, she should immediately report the abuse to the authorities. The gal should be immediately involved in a church that she may eventually move out of her current home to dorm with a godly, responsible family from church. Perhaps a family with good testimony would board her.
As for the boyfriend, he may just as well be taking advantage of the girlfriend's home situation by bringing her shame to even suggest they live together. Shame on him!
A man who truly wants to protect his woman does so by protecting her reputation in all honorable ways. He either needs to marry the girl and bring her to dorm with him wherever he lives, or he may ask one of his relatives (aunt, grandmother, mother) to dorm the girl as long as it's not in the same house where he dwells. He can start paying for the girl's living expenses if he really cares for his girlfriend. ...just saying.
The gal should remain at home and block all abuse, or at the next abuse, she should immediately report the abuse to the authorities. The gal should be immediately involved in a church that she may eventually move out of her current home to dorm with a godly, responsible family from church. Perhaps a family with good testimony would board her.
As for the boyfriend, he may just as well be taking advantage of the girlfriend's home situation by bringing her shame to even suggest they live together. Shame on him!
A man who truly wants to protect his woman does so by protecting her reputation in all honorable ways. He either needs to marry the girl and bring her to dorm with him wherever he lives, or he may ask one of his relatives (aunt, grandmother, mother) to dorm the girl as long as it's not in the same house where he dwells. He can start paying for the girl's living expenses if he really cares for his girlfriend. ...just saying.
C
There are some who are teaching that having sex with the opposite gender qualifies that couple as being married in the eyes of God.
But yet,
Having sex "makes you one flesh", and that is something that should be reserved for marriage.
As for Mark 10: "a man shall...be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh". That's two things that should happen, not one.
Still yet:
Jesus does not seem to consider merely being with a man to make him your husband.
John 4:16-19 (DRA)
But yet,
- Old Testament Law says that a man who has sex with an unmarried woman has to marry her. That would be unnecessary if having sex made them married.
- If that were the case, some teacher somewhere would be reminding people that they had to treat the people they had sex with as if they were wives.
- Tamar has sex with Judah because he won't consent to give her to his son in marriage. After they have sex, there is no thought that they are married. Judah relents and allows Tamar to marry his son.
- As pointed out elsewhere, fornication and adultery would both be non-existent events if the act of sex made you married.
- David has sex with Bathsheba, and then later marries her. Also unnecessary if the sex made them married.
Having sex "makes you one flesh", and that is something that should be reserved for marriage.
As for Mark 10: "a man shall...be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh". That's two things that should happen, not one.
Still yet:
Jesus does not seem to consider merely being with a man to make him your husband.
John 4:16-19 (DRA)
16 Jesus saith to her: Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
17 The woman answered, and said: I have no husband. Jesus said to her: Thou hast said well, I have no husband:
18 For thou hast had five husbands: and he whom thou now hast, is not thy husband. This thou hast said truly.
19 The woman saith to him: Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
17 The woman answered, and said: I have no husband. Jesus said to her: Thou hast said well, I have no husband:
18 For thou hast had five husbands: and he whom thou now hast, is not thy husband. This thou hast said truly.
19 The woman saith to him: Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
OK let's do it your way....
Since they didn't have a state government to go to, who gave them their marriage license???
No one.
What DID they do?
The Groom gave the Bride's father some goats, gold and other gifts to buy his daughter.
The daughter may or may not come with a dowry.
Do it your way.
OH and it was a contract between families.
ANd it was celebrated with three days of feasting and such.
So let's americanize it and be efficient. They live together, have sex, and have both families over for a meal. POOF, marriage.
happy?
Since they didn't have a state government to go to, who gave them their marriage license???
No one.
What DID they do?
The Groom gave the Bride's father some goats, gold and other gifts to buy his daughter.
The daughter may or may not come with a dowry.
Do it your way.
OH and it was a contract between families.
ANd it was celebrated with three days of feasting and such.
So let's americanize it and be efficient. They live together, have sex, and have both families over for a meal. POOF, marriage.
happy?
Hospitalpharmacist, I'm sorry you are in such a difficult situation. This sounds a lot more complicated than what can be appropriately addressed in this forum. As an abuse victim, the first thing you need to do is to protect yourself. Talk to your pastor or a good counsellor who can help you come up with a plan for escaping your current situation. File police reports or complaints, if applicable. Once you are safe, you can start the path to healing and building a new life.
If you need to stay with the boyfriend for a couple of days while you get some things sorted, just do so with caution. It is not a wise long-term solution. Jumping from abuse to a co-dependent relationship will only complicate matters and slow your healing process, even though it may look like your only way out at this time. You and God can handle this without needing a man to rescue you.
If you need to stay with the boyfriend for a couple of days while you get some things sorted, just do so with caution. It is not a wise long-term solution. Jumping from abuse to a co-dependent relationship will only complicate matters and slow your healing process, even though it may look like your only way out at this time. You and God can handle this without needing a man to rescue you.
THIS is a book that deals with a lot of the issues of abuse, but it's written to the sexually abused. LOTS of cross over. It's a man with Doctorate in Psychology, and Masters in Theology.
Wounded Heart. Allender. Click here...
Wounded Heart. Allender. Click here...
Regardless of what customary ceremony takes place to make a couple married, there must be SOME ceremony other than just having sex, TannarDarr. A legal one - as those you mentioned in biblical times were considered binding legally. The Bible is pretty clear that sex and marriage are TWO separate things. Paul speaks of marrying rather than burning with lust. "Fornication" is spoken of all over the place. Jesus tells the woman at the well that she's had five husbands, and the man she is with now is NOT her husband. Your point of view is NOT the end of the story.
Heavy sarcasm duly noted.
Heavy sarcasm duly noted.
I
since the Bible is a guide on HOW TO LIVE, it makes it pretty clear in Genesis (not sure if already brought up)
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
reading this, it makes it pretty clear that you wait til you are married to leave your parents and become ONE with your wife / husband.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
reading this, it makes it pretty clear that you wait til you are married to leave your parents and become ONE with your wife / husband.
H
thank you to you and to everyone who are supporting here. I can say that, thanks to your replies, now this issue is clearer to me. I understood it's not wise to cohabitate with a boyfriend because of temptation and possible gossip even if my opinion is that gossiping is a way to judge so it's against what Christ taught us. But I agree when you talked about children because we need to protect children by the evil and the bad behaviours and even if I and my boyfriend live in chastity, this can't be known by children and they could think that living together and having sex before marriage is ok. On the other hand living together permit to know better each other and I suppose help to understand if a marriage can work.
To reply to "You are a 41 year old woman who is a pharmacist, right? Can you rent an apartment and live there by yourself?"
Yes this is the truth but when you don't work it's difficult to have enough money to live by yourself.
Thank you to alla again I appreciated very much your answers.
To reply to "You are a 41 year old woman who is a pharmacist, right? Can you rent an apartment and live there by yourself?"
Yes this is the truth but when you don't work it's difficult to have enough money to live by yourself.
Thank you to alla again I appreciated very much your answers.
Not according to what the Bible teaches. They gather together as one, they are married. Period. Jesus don't lie. Consult the samaritan woman at the well, I believe that is ONE location that point is made. But I haven't verified. If you need me to, I will dig in and find a ton of references for you.
That's a stretch. A big stretch, but not technically untrue. It was a contract between two families. NO GOVERNMENT WAS INVOLVED! A piece of paper, a ceremony, those are irrelevant.
Look I'm only addressing what the Bible says. MOST people who cohabitate are not willing to make a marital commitment. BUT most people who get legally married aren't either! Cohabitation, when committed has a higher success rate than than those that get married.
Yet Most Adults Still Want to Be Married (And Fail At It)
Agreed, however that doesn't mean that if you have sex, God doesn't see you as married, as ONE, because he does.
Which of these do you think applies to the OP? Fornication? raw lusty sex? which one applies to the conversation this thread is having? I don't see anything in this bit that applies. I'm not pickin' I"m serious.
IF, AS DESCRIBED, they make a commitment to each other, publically announce it, have sex, in God's eyes, like the samaritan woman's, they are married. THEY ARE UNITED AS ONE. That isn't a pretty, cliche, pet phrase. It's how it is. Now, to be married in God's province does not require a governmental approval, anymore than a baptism does. JUST because generations of people have asssumed it was so, doesn't make it so.
Yes it was sorta sarcastic. More HYPERBOLE than sarcasm, but really a bastardization of the two. but it did directly address the issue as to what a marriage looked like back then. I TRY to take some of the heat out, seriousness out of some of these discussions with some smirky humor in there. It's a fault of mine I guess.
So:
Given they make a commitment for life with each other.
ANd they move in with out a marriage license.
And they have sex and complete the claim.
Do you argue more is needed for them to be married in God's eyes?
That's a stretch. A big stretch, but not technically untrue. It was a contract between two families. NO GOVERNMENT WAS INVOLVED! A piece of paper, a ceremony, those are irrelevant.
Look I'm only addressing what the Bible says. MOST people who cohabitate are not willing to make a marital commitment. BUT most people who get legally married aren't either! Cohabitation, when committed has a higher success rate than than those that get married.
Yet Most Adults Still Want to Be Married (And Fail At It)
- Percentage of people who have ever been married by the age of 55: Both males and females: 95%
- Percentage of first marriages that end in divorce in 1997: 50% (This is only an estimate, but everyone uses it as fact)
- Percentage of remarriages that end in divorce in 1997: 60-70% (estimated)
- Percentage of couples living together for more than five years who eventually marry as of 1995: 70%
- Percentage of married people who reach anniversaries:
5th: 82%
10th: 65%
15th: 52%
25th: 33%
35th: 20%
50th: 5%
Agreed, however that doesn't mean that if you have sex, God doesn't see you as married, as ONE, because he does.
Which of these do you think applies to the OP? Fornication? raw lusty sex? which one applies to the conversation this thread is having? I don't see anything in this bit that applies. I'm not pickin' I"m serious.
IF, AS DESCRIBED, they make a commitment to each other, publically announce it, have sex, in God's eyes, like the samaritan woman's, they are married. THEY ARE UNITED AS ONE. That isn't a pretty, cliche, pet phrase. It's how it is. Now, to be married in God's province does not require a governmental approval, anymore than a baptism does. JUST because generations of people have asssumed it was so, doesn't make it so.
Yes it was sorta sarcastic. More HYPERBOLE than sarcasm, but really a bastardization of the two. but it did directly address the issue as to what a marriage looked like back then. I TRY to take some of the heat out, seriousness out of some of these discussions with some smirky humor in there. It's a fault of mine I guess.
So:
Given they make a commitment for life with each other.
ANd they move in with out a marriage license.
And they have sex and complete the claim.
Do you argue more is needed for them to be married in God's eyes?
Forgive me, let's look at the verse....
man leaves family.
CLEAVES TO HIS WIFE. Odd word cleave. Think cleavage, where two things come together.
[h=2]Definition of CLEAVE[/h]: to adhere firmly and closely or loyally and unwaveringly
transitive verb
1
: to divide by or as if by a cutting blow : split
2
: to separate into distinct parts and especially into groups having divergent views
The hebrew word means much the same.
They are joined, like with glue together. Or, they become one.
What happens to become one?
Either the CLEAVE, come together, means fit like a puzzle, or it means a commitment to each other. Either way the OP meets the standard.
man leaves family.
CLEAVES TO HIS WIFE. Odd word cleave. Think cleavage, where two things come together.
[h=2]Definition of CLEAVE[/h]: to adhere firmly and closely or loyally and unwaveringly
transitive verb
1
: to divide by or as if by a cutting blow : split
2
: to separate into distinct parts and especially into groups having divergent views
The hebrew word means much the same.
They are joined, like with glue together. Or, they become one.
What happens to become one?
Either the CLEAVE, come together, means fit like a puzzle, or it means a commitment to each other. Either way the OP meets the standard.
Yes, please.
I don't believe either of us have really kept this thread on-track as far as the OP's original question.
This isn't really what you said before though. You said (not a direct quote since it's on the page before and inaccessible to me at the mo) that as soon as they hit the sheets, they were married - simple as that. Which is a pretty slippery slope. It suggests that there's no need for a ceremony, a commitment, a legal document - just have sex. That isn't God's idea of marriage any more than it is mine. A marriage DOES biblically include a ceremony between two people, two families. There are many references in the Bible about weddings, brides and bridegrooms.
The danger here is that what you say insinuates that all we need to "marry" in God's eyes is to have sex. (Sex, which is a sin before marriage.) It suggests that this is right and good in God's eyes. I agree that sex joins people together, and is not looked on lightly by God. I will even agree that once two people have begun living together as a married couple, God may recognize them them as married. But I cannot agree that he considers two people married just because they have sex (with no commitment to one another), and I do not see any scriptural evidence to suggest it either.
Your brand of sarcasm seems designed to belittle others, which is why I find it inappropriate. If it were self-directed, perhaps I'd feel differently, but it is always outwardly directed, in this thread and others.
If this is a Christian couple who want to do everything in a way that glorifies the Lord, then I do not see why they wouldn't legally marry one another. I can agree that if ALL of this is done, God may view them as married, but I do not believe that he would be pleased with their rebellious spirit in avoiding a legal marriage that would honor and glorify him.
I don't believe either of us have really kept this thread on-track as far as the OP's original question.
This isn't really what you said before though. You said (not a direct quote since it's on the page before and inaccessible to me at the mo) that as soon as they hit the sheets, they were married - simple as that. Which is a pretty slippery slope. It suggests that there's no need for a ceremony, a commitment, a legal document - just have sex. That isn't God's idea of marriage any more than it is mine. A marriage DOES biblically include a ceremony between two people, two families. There are many references in the Bible about weddings, brides and bridegrooms.
The danger here is that what you say insinuates that all we need to "marry" in God's eyes is to have sex. (Sex, which is a sin before marriage.) It suggests that this is right and good in God's eyes. I agree that sex joins people together, and is not looked on lightly by God. I will even agree that once two people have begun living together as a married couple, God may recognize them them as married. But I cannot agree that he considers two people married just because they have sex (with no commitment to one another), and I do not see any scriptural evidence to suggest it either.
Your brand of sarcasm seems designed to belittle others, which is why I find it inappropriate. If it were self-directed, perhaps I'd feel differently, but it is always outwardly directed, in this thread and others.
If this is a Christian couple who want to do everything in a way that glorifies the Lord, then I do not see why they wouldn't legally marry one another. I can agree that if ALL of this is done, God may view them as married, but I do not believe that he would be pleased with their rebellious spirit in avoiding a legal marriage that would honor and glorify him.