a Question for the Premillennialists
- Thread starter cronjecj
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
so you think the Holy Spirit will be removed from the Earth with the whole rapture thing?
hmm..... So if people stage a fake rapture, then the people left have no hope of redemption of getting the Holy Spirit. wonderful.
lets just address this one statement:
1. Where is the TEMPLE Located? IN HEAVEN and the Hearts of men or in the physical world in a building built by men?
2. the abomination of desolation is the destruction of the Babylon the Whore, who sinned against God by marrying a lot of pagan wives and chasing after their gods. As shown in SOLOMON.
3. where is this found in Thess? why do you think this refers to the beast from the sea? or the false prophet?
the beast from the sea is not a man but made up of alot of people and nations. its a spiritual creature. so is the false prophet. both have been tossed into the fire.
SATAN was bound and is now has been or will soon be released to deceive the nations and gather them for war against GOD. you'll see it in a global world religion, preaching "tolerance" and acceptance for everyone except those who don't agree to give up their "divisive" doctrines.
hmm..... So if people stage a fake rapture, then the people left have no hope of redemption of getting the Holy Spirit. wonderful.
lets just address this one statement:
1. Here is this man, declaring himself to be God, standing in the temple. Doing what?
2. Committing the abomination of desolation. As spoken of by daniel and Christ himself.
3. Which is why he must destroy the "woman" or "babylon" because it would be the only thing strong enough to appose him.
2. Committing the abomination of desolation. As spoken of by daniel and Christ himself.
3. Which is why he must destroy the "woman" or "babylon" because it would be the only thing strong enough to appose him.
2. the abomination of desolation is the destruction of the Babylon the Whore, who sinned against God by marrying a lot of pagan wives and chasing after their gods. As shown in SOLOMON.
3. where is this found in Thess? why do you think this refers to the beast from the sea? or the false prophet?
the beast from the sea is not a man but made up of alot of people and nations. its a spiritual creature. so is the false prophet. both have been tossed into the fire.
SATAN was bound and is now has been or will soon be released to deceive the nations and gather them for war against GOD. you'll see it in a global world religion, preaching "tolerance" and acceptance for everyone except those who don't agree to give up their "divisive" doctrines.
E
I've read the count is from the decree to Jesus birth is 69 weeks and starts the 70th set of sevens.
even if it would be correct. if Christ birth was the START of the 70 set of sevens. Jesus would be 7 years old when he was "cut off' (killed) the temple was destroyed. the abomination. the many many wars and desolations. etc etc. We all know that is not true.
so we would have to literally take the first 69 weeks as fulfilled. And somehow spiritualize the last week of sevens (7 years) and make it go on to be not 7 but over 70 years. why would we do this?
E
so you think the Holy Spirit will be removed from the Earth with the whole rapture thing?
hmm..... So if people stage a fake rapture, then the people left have no hope of redemption of getting the Holy Spirit. wonderful.
lets just address this one statement:
1. Where is the TEMPLE Located? IN HEAVEN and the Hearts of men or in the physical world in a building built by men?
1. Where is the TEMPLE Located? IN HEAVEN and the Hearts of men or in the physical world in a building built by men?
Can the man of sin enter the temple in heaven and declare himself to be God and the people of the earth worship him and take his mark?
2. the abomination of desolation is the destruction of the Babylon the Whore, who sinned against God by marrying a lot of pagan wives and chasing after their gods. As shown in SOLOMON.
3. where is this found in Thess? why do you think this refers to the beast from the sea? or the false prophet?
lets take a look.
2 thess 2:
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Rev 19: 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.
sounds like the same people. Works signs and wonder, according to the power of satan, and this causes people to believe he is God and truth, so they accept his mark. and worship his image, because God sent a strong dilusion.
the beast from the sea is not a man but made up of alot of people and nations. its a spiritual creature. so is the false prophet. both have been tossed into the fire.
SATAN was bound and is now has been or will soon be released to deceive the nations and gather them for war against GOD. you'll see it in a global world religion, preaching "tolerance" and acceptance for everyone except those who don't agree to give up their "divisive" doctrines.
A
The Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Land are not people anymore then the Harlot of Babylonian or the Woman with the twelve stars or CHrist's Bride are a single person.
The BIBLE says they are spiritual beings not men as we know men.
The Beast from the sea:
are these the same beast?
One says it comes out of the sea, the other out of the bottomless pit. I've read that the sea is sometimes referred to as a bottomless pit, but hey the person could have been making that up.
the second is pretty obviously NOT a man but makes up of the souls of many men and is a spiritual creature. Its says that beast's seven heads are seven different kings.
i'm pretty sure Satan IS out and about but you have not convinced me he was not bound in the past and has been released.
The BIBLE says they are spiritual beings not men as we know men.
The Beast from the sea:
Revelation 13
The Beast from the Sea
1 Then I[a] stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 17
7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[c]
9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on[d] the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
The Beast from the Sea
1 Then I[a] stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 17
7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[c]
9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on[d] the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
are these the same beast?
One says it comes out of the sea, the other out of the bottomless pit. I've read that the sea is sometimes referred to as a bottomless pit, but hey the person could have been making that up.
the second is pretty obviously NOT a man but makes up of the souls of many men and is a spiritual creature. Its says that beast's seven heads are seven different kings.
i'm pretty sure Satan IS out and about but you have not convinced me he was not bound in the past and has been released.
Last edited:
A
Ok i was told to think...ill try. The Holyspirit being removed as a restrainer is difficult for
me due to the nature of God not having location. Also man left to himself cannot attain
saving faith. Besides it isnt so much satan even deceiving man as it is God giving them
over to a delusion prior to believing the lie.
Satan is to be loosed for a little season, which lines up with thess 2 and rev 20.
I understand you can do a word search and divide up these things and figure the
opposing view is stretching things a bit. But i also see the same thing done in the
premil camp.
I understand also when youve taken it for granted there will be a 1000 earthly kingdom
it all fits and make sence. Yes it fits rather nicely. Although at this point im not
too sure its the correct view. Mostly because it doesnt fit the gospels or epistles.
When it comes down to it i spose its all about how you interpret rev 20.
Dan.70 weeks is no problem to me, neither are any old testament prophecies.
Thats also all in how you view scripture and deal with the literal/figurative words.
Awhile back i did a study with rev 19 and rev 20 and ezek gog/magog war. I had it
on papers all layed out......it appeared it was the exact same war.
Ill say this much....this is fun to toss around...and to pose questions about.
But to do more than pose views and toss things around..I doubt anyone will
profit much when they are claiming to hold fast to their own view. Its not so
much that we shouldnt hold to our faith strongly...that i do believe in. But some
parts of the bible could have been cleared up with just a few more statements from the
Holyspirit..they are not there...therefore i think we were to study and be wise about it.
me due to the nature of God not having location. Also man left to himself cannot attain
saving faith. Besides it isnt so much satan even deceiving man as it is God giving them
over to a delusion prior to believing the lie.
Satan is to be loosed for a little season, which lines up with thess 2 and rev 20.
I understand you can do a word search and divide up these things and figure the
opposing view is stretching things a bit. But i also see the same thing done in the
premil camp.
I understand also when youve taken it for granted there will be a 1000 earthly kingdom
it all fits and make sence. Yes it fits rather nicely. Although at this point im not
too sure its the correct view. Mostly because it doesnt fit the gospels or epistles.
When it comes down to it i spose its all about how you interpret rev 20.
Dan.70 weeks is no problem to me, neither are any old testament prophecies.
Thats also all in how you view scripture and deal with the literal/figurative words.
Awhile back i did a study with rev 19 and rev 20 and ezek gog/magog war. I had it
on papers all layed out......it appeared it was the exact same war.
Ill say this much....this is fun to toss around...and to pose questions about.
But to do more than pose views and toss things around..I doubt anyone will
profit much when they are claiming to hold fast to their own view. Its not so
much that we shouldnt hold to our faith strongly...that i do believe in. But some
parts of the bible could have been cleared up with just a few more statements from the
Holyspirit..they are not there...therefore i think we were to study and be wise about it.
A
I have read this theory also. But I can't agree with it, it makes no sense. plus the time does not add up. it would be approximately 33 years before the correct time. If you want, When I get home and get the actual count I will post it. Remember, messiah the prince means when he is made king. When he rode in on the donkey, what did they praise him as?? less than a week later these same people were calling out to crucify him. This is when messiah the prince is "cut off" or killed. The timeline is way off if we make it his birth. Remember the most common mistake when adding years comes is when we use the roman calander (365 days/year plus leap year) and not the jewish calendar which daniel would have used which is 360 days/year plus the sabbath year (7th year) when we use this time period. the day to restor, and the day Jesus enters is exactly 69 weeks.
even if it would be correct. if Christ birth was the START of the 70 set of sevens. Jesus would be 7 years old when he was "cut off' (killed) the temple was destroyed. the abomination. the many many wars and desolations. etc etc. We all know that is not true.
so we would have to literally take the first 69 weeks as fulfilled. And somehow spiritualize the last week of sevens (7 years) and make it go on to be not 7 but over 70 years. why would we do this?
even if it would be correct. if Christ birth was the START of the 70 set of sevens. Jesus would be 7 years old when he was "cut off' (killed) the temple was destroyed. the abomination. the many many wars and desolations. etc etc. We all know that is not true.
so we would have to literally take the first 69 weeks as fulfilled. And somehow spiritualize the last week of sevens (7 years) and make it go on to be not 7 but over 70 years. why would we do this?
another one I read was (i don't really like numbers but anyways) that Jesus was baptized and given power when he was thirty. Preached for 3.5 years and was cruxified then spent 3.5 years after His resurrection teaching His disciples.
what I don't get is why is there a gap between the first 69 set of sevens and the last set of sevens?
E
The Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Land are not people anymore then the Harlot of Babylonian or the Woman with the twelve stars or CHrist's Bride are a single person.
The BIBLE says they are spiritual beings not men as we know men.
The Beast from the sea:
are these the same beast?
One says it comes out of the sea, the other out of the bottomless pit. I've read that the sea is sometimes referred to as a bottomless pit, but hey the person could have been making that up.
the second is pretty obviously NOT a man but makes up of the souls of many men and is a spiritual creature. Its says that beast's seven heads are seven different kings.
i'm pretty sure Satan IS out and about but you have not convinced me he was not bound in the past and has been released.
The BIBLE says they are spiritual beings not men as we know men.
The Beast from the sea:
are these the same beast?
One says it comes out of the sea, the other out of the bottomless pit. I've read that the sea is sometimes referred to as a bottomless pit, but hey the person could have been making that up.
the second is pretty obviously NOT a man but makes up of the souls of many men and is a spiritual creature. Its says that beast's seven heads are seven different kings.
i'm pretty sure Satan IS out and about but you have not convinced me he was not bound in the past and has been released.
It all makes sense. Who destroyed the temple and city? The romans, daniels 4th empire.
who are we told will commit the abomination: The future prince of the people (empire) who destroys the temple.
babylon (the woman) rides on this empire (rome) and is destroyed before this future leader commits the abomination of desolation and sets himself up as God. Why? She would never follow him. why? She is a copy of that which is true. and thinks herself to be the true bride. and would never accept herself as HIS bride. remember in rev 17. She has the power of kings and peoples. They would follow her before they followed him, we know this because they mourn at her death.
again, it all makes sense when we put it all together.
if you look at what you posted. it is quite clear.
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
It is quite clear from this passage.
1. HE is a man
2. He is given authority to rule ALL the nations (He is a world leader under a one world government) which comes out of the revised roman empire. (europe)
3. He is given this authority for 3 1/2 years (after the abomination of desolation)
4. The whole world will worship HIM
5. He blasphemes God, his name and his temple (thus the abomination)
6. He also blasphemes those who dwell in heaven. by blaspheming the very God who saved them. and the angels who did not fall when he fell.
7. He also goes after and blasphemes those on earth who follow God, because they will never follow him or receive his mark (all who are not written in the book of the lamb)
7. Conclusion. This is the man of sin spoken of in thess 2. which we have already discussed.
E
Ok i was told to think...ill try. The Holyspirit being removed as a restrainer is difficult for
me due to the nature of God not having location. Also man left to himself cannot attain
saving faith. Besides it isnt so much satan even deceiving man as it is God giving them
over to a delusion prior to believing the lie.
Satan is to be loosed for a little season, which lines up with thess 2 and rev 20.
I understand you can do a word search and divide up these things and figure the
opposing view is stretching things a bit. But i also see the same thing done in the
premil camp.
me due to the nature of God not having location. Also man left to himself cannot attain
saving faith. Besides it isnt so much satan even deceiving man as it is God giving them
over to a delusion prior to believing the lie.
Satan is to be loosed for a little season, which lines up with thess 2 and rev 20.
I understand you can do a word search and divide up these things and figure the
opposing view is stretching things a bit. But i also see the same thing done in the
premil camp.
1. Anyone who looks at the worlds history over the last 2000 years and think Satan has not had any control or ability to deceive nations is either blind or ignorant. Satan not only decieved leaders of the church to form a false church based on pagan ritual and belief which comes from babylon herself. But he has also used these people to enforce his new false religion on the whole world. He has also used leaders of many nations to kill Gods people. since that time (hitler and the jews, and islam in the present day) Not to mention communism, in which no christian entity is allowed to worship anything. Satan has had a great many victories, just as God said he would. The only thing he has been restrained from is having his way by ruling the whole world. As rev, daniel, and even Christ said he will when this restraint is removed.
I understand also when youve taken it for granted there will be a 1000 earthly kingdom
it all fits and make sence. Yes it fits rather nicely. Although at this point im not
too sure its the correct view. Mostly because it doesnt fit the gospels or epistles.
When it comes down to it i spose its all about how you interpret rev 20.
it all fits and make sence. Yes it fits rather nicely. Although at this point im not
too sure its the correct view. Mostly because it doesnt fit the gospels or epistles.
When it comes down to it i spose its all about how you interpret rev 20.
Dan.70 weeks is no problem to me, neither are any old testament prophecies.
Thats also all in how you view scripture and deal with the literal/figurative words.
Awhile back i did a study with rev 19 and rev 20 and ezek gog/magog war. I had it
on papers all layed out......it appeared it was the exact same war.
Thats also all in how you view scripture and deal with the literal/figurative words.
Awhile back i did a study with rev 19 and rev 20 and ezek gog/magog war. I had it
on papers all layed out......it appeared it was the exact same war.
Ill say this much....this is fun to toss around...and to pose questions about.
But to do more than pose views and toss things around..I doubt anyone will
profit much when they are claiming to hold fast to their own view. Its not so
much that we shouldnt hold to our faith strongly...that i do believe in. But some
parts of the bible could have been cleared up with just a few more statements from the
Holyspirit..they are not there...therefore i think we were to study and be wise about it.
But to do more than pose views and toss things around..I doubt anyone will
profit much when they are claiming to hold fast to their own view. Its not so
much that we shouldnt hold to our faith strongly...that i do believe in. But some
parts of the bible could have been cleared up with just a few more statements from the
Holyspirit..they are not there...therefore i think we were to study and be wise about it.
E
a set of seven is a set of seven, why could it not be a set of 10 years?
if we want to interpret what daniel say and understood. we have to put ourselves in his shoes. Daniel would have undersatood this 70 set of sevens as either seven weeks of days (makes no sense) or 70 weeks of years. he woul dnever have though of anything other than this.
another one I read was (i don't really like numbers but anyways) that Jesus was baptized and given power when he was thirty. Preached for 3.5 years and was cruxified then spent 3.5 years after His resurrection teaching His disciples.
what I don't get is why is there a gap between the first 69 set of sevens and the last set of sevens?
what I don't get is why is there a gap between the first 69 set of sevens and the last set of sevens?
as for the time gap, we have a gap no matter which side of the spectrum you are on.
Your belief has a gap between the coming of messiah and the destruction of the temple. (69 weeks literally fulfilled, and then 70th week at an unknown number of years. or a gap between the 69th week and completion of the 70th week)
My belief has a gap between the coming of messiah and the start of the 70th week.
yet again, I have shown this even in daniels interpretation.
starting with verse 25. we have 69 weeks until messiah the prince (fulfilled either at his birth, his baptism or his triumphant entry into jerusalem on a donkey, which ever belief you hold)
following this we have:
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Christ is killed. But nor for himself (for the whole world) happened on week after his entry to Jerusalem)
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Happened in 70 AD. when the "people of the prince who will come (future prince) destroyed the temple and jerusalem) (thus we already have a gap, or non literal fulfillment of the 70th week no matter what belief you hold to)
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
This time period will continue until the end of desolations are determined (determined By God) Until then there will be many wars of many nations, which has happened and is continuing today
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
He, (the prince of the people who destroyed jerusalem, or world leader at this time) confims this seven year covenant. This is the start of the 70th week. and also the day the "man of sin is revealed"
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
In the middle of this weak. He will claim himself to be God, and blaspheme God and those who follow him in heaven and earth
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
This time of the rule of this prince claiming to be God will continue until the time God pours out his wrath on the desolate, or the return of Christ.
again, if we take the first 69 weeks literally. we MUST take the 70th literally as well. No other interpretation allows for a literal fulfillment of the 70th week.
A
This beast is the roman empire. It was, it was not (was splintered) and was again. If you look at daniels prophesies concerning the last empire, you will see this was prophesied to happen. The beast who makes war would be the ruler of this revised empire.
It all makes sense. Who destroyed the temple and city? The romans, daniels 4th empire.
who are we told will commit the abomination: The future prince of the people (empire) who destroys the temple.
who are we told will commit the abomination: The future prince of the people (empire) who destroys the temple.
babylon (the woman) rides on this empire (rome) and is destroyed before this future leader commits the abomination of desolation and sets himself up as God. Why? She would never follow him. why? She is a copy of that which is true. and thinks herself to be the true bride. and would never accept herself as HIS bride. remember in rev 17. She has the power of kings and peoples. They would follow her before they followed him, we know this because they mourn at her death.
again, it all makes sense when we put it all together.
if you look at what you posted. it is quite clear.
if you look at what you posted. it is quite clear.
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
It is quite clear from this passage.
1. HE is a man
1. HE is a man
2. He is given authority to rule ALL the nations (He is a world leader under a one world government) which comes out of the revised roman empire. (europe)
3. He is given this authority for 3 1/2 years (after the abomination of desolation)
4. The whole world will worship HIM
5. He blasphemes God, his name and his temple (thus the abomination)
6. He also blasphemes those who dwell in heaven. by blaspheming the very God who saved them. and the angels who did not fall when he fell.
3. He is given this authority for 3 1/2 years (after the abomination of desolation)
4. The whole world will worship HIM
5. He blasphemes God, his name and his temple (thus the abomination)
6. He also blasphemes those who dwell in heaven. by blaspheming the very God who saved them. and the angels who did not fall when he fell.
7. He also goes after and blasphemes those on earth who follow God, because they will never follow him or receive his mark (all who are not written in the book of the lamb)
7. Conclusion. This is the man of sin spoken of in thess 2. which we have already discussed.
7. Conclusion. This is the man of sin spoken of in thess 2. which we have already discussed.
A
again, if we take the first 69 weeks literally. we MUST take the 70th literally as well. No other interpretation allows for a literal fulfillment of the 70th week.
the 70 weeks were fulfilled with the destruction of the temple at 70 AD.
the question asked by Daniel was:
Daniel 9
Daniel’s Prayer for the People
1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
Daniel’s Prayer for the People
1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!
16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”
E
ok so we agree on that point, the Beast is the Roman Empire....
now you are going to twist what you just said to make the beast a man and the people or empire Roman two different things....
yes unfaithful Israel nation is the WHORE. she thinks herself as the TRUE BRIDE to whom?
The roman catholic church is. Imagine how the would would mourn if the roman church was destroyed. Remember, rome has great power in the world today. Most free nations are catholic christian. Not protestant Christian.
Isreal does not think she is the bride of anyone. She thinks she is the children of God.
and this is where we differ, your reading of this passage makes no sense.
Again. God has always used symbolic things such as animals and other things to represent literal things (IE beast represents rome, and Rome will literally do the things God said he would do.
no it doesn't you just said the beast was the Roman empire, how do you get he is just a man again?
you just said when HE fell meaning you think he was in Heaven at some point, but the Bible says he comes out of the sea for the beast in Rev. 13 or if you mean the beast the Harlot rides (if you don't think they are the same) then he comes out of the bottomless pit.
so do you think they are the same beast? does the sea refer to the bottomless pit?[/quote]
The sea is also used of the peoples of the earth. He comes out from the people of the earth (Sea) and the kingdom of rome is restored (see daniel about the 4 beasts or kingdoms of the earth, especially the last beast)
think about it sis. What does it say about this time? People can not BUY or SELL unless they have the mark of the beast. what does this signify? A one world government and one world banking system (currency) Something is going to happen to allow this future prince power to take over the world, and make a one government. what could that be? The collapse of the worlds banking system?? We are getting near to this time now sis. We need to be prepared. we can not be prepared if we do not think it will happen or has already happened.
A bottomless pit is not a sea. A bottomless pit is a place where there is no way out.
A
Is 457 B.C. the right date? Is it the starting point of the great time prophecies? As I've said before, it makes sense to me. Coupled with the fulfilment of the Messiah coming 483 years later, being cut off in the midst of the final week of the 490 year prophecy, causing ceremonial sacrifices to cease. To me there is no question. The beginning point for the "seventy weeks", according to the historical-Messianic interpretation, is the "going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem" (Dan. 9:25). The 69 weeks or 483 years, takes us to the anointing of Messiah the Prince, at His baptism in 27 A.D. in the 15th year of the Roman emperor Tiberius (Luke 3:5)
Messiah is "cut off" for our transgressions (Isaiah 53:8) in the midst of the "week" or after three and a half years, 31 A.D. Then, at the end of the 490 years allotted to Israel, we see them launch their attack against Christians (against Christ) with the stoning of Stephen. Thus ends the "time given to Israel" as a nation (though as individuals God sees neither Jew nor Gentile, all who come to Him in sincere faith are His children)
In 457 B.C. they did not have calendars like we have. This fact can give room for doubts and arguments on the exactness of the date. Different nations used different ways to figure the years of the kings' reigns.
Ezra 7:7-8 tells us the decree was issued in the 7th year of Artaxerxes I. The seventh year of Artaxerxes I is relatively sure as being in 458/457.
(Remember years run backward in B.C.)
That means the seventh year of Artaxerxes started in the fall of 458 and ran through to the summer of 457.
Several historians say that the seventh year of Artaxerxes extended from the fall of 458 to the fall of 457 B.C. or 458/457.
Ezra returned to Palestine in 457 B.C.
Ezra's journey to Jerusalem began in Nisan and ended in Ab of 457 B.C. (Ezra 7:8-9). Thus, according to our months, Ezra's trip lasted from April to late July 457 B.C.
The decree of Artaxerxes I went into effect after Ezra's arrival in Palestine in the early fall—or late summer—of 457 B.C. This was "the going forth" of the decree recoded in Daniel 9:25-26
The Year 457 B.C. and it's Importance.
Messiah is "cut off" for our transgressions (Isaiah 53:8) in the midst of the "week" or after three and a half years, 31 A.D. Then, at the end of the 490 years allotted to Israel, we see them launch their attack against Christians (against Christ) with the stoning of Stephen. Thus ends the "time given to Israel" as a nation (though as individuals God sees neither Jew nor Gentile, all who come to Him in sincere faith are His children)
In 457 B.C. they did not have calendars like we have. This fact can give room for doubts and arguments on the exactness of the date. Different nations used different ways to figure the years of the kings' reigns.
Ezra 7:7-8 tells us the decree was issued in the 7th year of Artaxerxes I. The seventh year of Artaxerxes I is relatively sure as being in 458/457.
(Remember years run backward in B.C.)
That means the seventh year of Artaxerxes started in the fall of 458 and ran through to the summer of 457.
Several historians say that the seventh year of Artaxerxes extended from the fall of 458 to the fall of 457 B.C. or 458/457.
Ezra returned to Palestine in 457 B.C.
Ezra's journey to Jerusalem began in Nisan and ended in Ab of 457 B.C. (Ezra 7:8-9). Thus, according to our months, Ezra's trip lasted from April to late July 457 B.C.
The decree of Artaxerxes I went into effect after Ezra's arrival in Palestine in the early fall—or late summer—of 457 B.C. This was "the going forth" of the decree recoded in Daniel 9:25-26
The Year 457 B.C. and it's Importance.
Abiding right we can't convince each other exactly but more importantly how does our varying readings of Revelation makes us behave today and how does it affect how we view the upcoming events in the future.
I believe that Satan will deceive the nations with whatever means he can. that the beast, the false prophet and the Harlot have been taken care of but Satan will still raise up an army with God and Magog and seek to destroy God's people.
I also believe that DEATH and HADES are still loose in the world and were loose even during the 1000 year reign because according to Revelation 20 they are not bound until AFTER the 1000 years and the white throne judgment. therefore this idealized picture of the 1000 year reign on Earth is false and JESUS and His saints reign NOW in Heaven and Satan will deceive the nations and seek to get more angels to fall for his lies and attack God's throne in Heaven again because that is where God's beloved city is right now, IN HEAVEN. the city does not descend to Earth until after Satan is defeated again, the world is destroyed and replaced with a New Heaven and New Earth.
This happens AFTER the 1000 years and to believe that Satan is going to use a tactic he tried and failed with is to blind oneself to the other avenue of attack he will use instead.
A
A bottomless pit is not a sea. A bottomless pit is a place where there is no way out.
Revelation 20:3
and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Revelation 9
Fifth Trumpet: The Locusts from the Bottomless Pit
1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
Fifth Trumpet: The Locusts from the Bottomless Pit
1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
Revelation 11:7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
anyway I'll keep my eye out for the global banking system and such, but there are NOT two different convenant and NO Earthly Jerusalem, just a HEAVENLY one that will descend after the destruction of this world and establishment of NEW Heaven and NEW Earth.
all other "holy cities" are fakes.
E
neither does it allow for a large gap.
And it allows for a large gap. Because the world has been at war since it has happened. Thus the "wars of desolations" are still in existance. the end has not been determined. The covenant does not occure until after these 'wars and desolations" are determined.
the 70 weeks were fulfilled with the destruction of the temple at 70 AD.
the question asked by Daniel was:
Jer 25:
3 “From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, even to this day, this is the twenty-third year in which the word of the LORD has come to me; and I have spoken to you, rising early and speaking, but you have not listened. 4 And the LORD has sent to you all His servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, but you have not listened nor inclined your ear to hear. 5 They said, ‘Repent now everyone of his evil way and his evil doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD has given to you and your fathers forever and ever. 6 Do not go after other gods to serve them and worship them, and do not provoke Me to anger with the works of your hands; and I will not harm you.’ 7 Yet you have not listened to Me,” says the LORD, “that you might provoke Me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
8 “Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘Because you have not heard My words, 9 behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the LORD, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations. 10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
The end of this 70 years was up. Daniel knew it. which is WHY he prayed for HIS PEOPLE!
Daniel 9:
I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
see the connection now?
what was daniels prayer?
Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the LORD my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
1. Daniel was making confession to his people!
2. Who was his people? "men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them"
3. He was admitting what Jeremiah the prophet said, and why they were in the situation they were in (Babylonian captivity) was because of the sin of the nation of Israel.
then Daniel goes on!
8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
1. Confirms that God has done what he said in the law of moses "the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us,
which is what?
lev 26, the final judgment for disobaying Gods law:
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, 28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;and My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas. 32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste. 34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
which is exactly what jeremiah prophesied.
Daniel goes on: (this is what he was praying for!!)
16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate.(He asked for the temple to be rebuilt) 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.” (he asked for the city to be rebuilt, and for God to forgive HIS People WHO HAVE SINNED AGAINST HIM))
He prayed for the nation of Isreal (his people, The temple and the city.
what was Gods answer?
24 “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
Again, Who is Daniels people who he prayed for?? "men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them"
so the answer MUST be concerning THESE PEOPLE.
we should look at Jeremiah's prophecy and see what it says.. but this tells us that God has made Jerusalem desolatethis tells us why because Judah and the inhabitants and Israel were unfaithful and they have been scattered in countries all over the world.
Daniel was praying BECAUSE the 70 YEARS WER ALMOST UP and ISREAL HAD NOT YET REPENTED.
the answer is concerning this.
shows repentance
ask God for forgiveness and then we get the angel and the 70 weeks and it tells us when GOD will restore Israel and forgive them. HE DID THIS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. JESUS called out the remnant and destroyed the enemies of GOD who claimed to be of Israel but were NOT with the destruction of the temple at 70 AD.
Last edited by a moderator:
E
as I said I would do when I got home:
The start of the 70 weeks.
there were many commands (decree's) which had to do with Israels return to jeruslaem following Babylonian captivity.
Decrees of Cyurus in 2 chron 36: 22-23, and Ezra 1: 1-3 and the decree of Darius in Ezra 6: 3-8. And artaxerxes in Ezra 7: 7, but these all had to do with the temple, and not the city proper (in fact rebuilding was halted in Ezra 4: 1-4 because they were trying to rebuild the city, which was forbidden.
In non of these decrees was the conditions of daniel 9 met.
The decree of artaxes, recorded in Neh 2: 1-8 is the first decree which gives permission to rebuild the city.
Neh 2
1 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.”
So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?”
4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”
So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”
6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.
7 Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[a] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, 8 and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple, for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.
so what is the date?
according to nehemiah, the month is nisan, Many historians have held that this date was the first of nisan in the year 445 (which is when artaxes held power) which would make it march 14, 445.
The completion of the first 69 weeks. "messiah the prince"
what day Did Jesus enter jerusalem? He entered 6 days before passover.
History shows the pashal supper, which was eaten before Jesus left, was 9 Nisaan. Jesus spent the sabbath with martha's house where the supper was which was the 9th of nissan. Thus he probably entered jerusalem the next day, on the 10th of nissan, as scripture records.
The julian date of 10 nissan is sunday april 6 ad 32.
looking at it. The dates from march 14, 445 (1 nissan) intil April 6 32 AD (10 nissan) is exactly 173, 880 days, or 7 times 69 years of sevens (360 days according to jewish tradition and calendar)
Start: 14 march BC 445 decree goes out.
end: 6 April 32 AD
Inbetween
476 years plus 24 days (according to Julian callendar)
but 465 years times 365 days (days in year) = 173,740 days.
Ad time from 14 March to 16 April = 24 days
add for leap years = 116 days
total = 173,880 days
using jewish calendar. 69 times 7 (69 weeks of 7 years) times 360 (360 days in jewish year) = 173,880 days.
Thus daniel prophesy of messiah being introduced at the end of 69 weeks is fulfilled.
Which Jesus even declares it. "saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes."
The start of the 70 weeks.
there were many commands (decree's) which had to do with Israels return to jeruslaem following Babylonian captivity.
Decrees of Cyurus in 2 chron 36: 22-23, and Ezra 1: 1-3 and the decree of Darius in Ezra 6: 3-8. And artaxerxes in Ezra 7: 7, but these all had to do with the temple, and not the city proper (in fact rebuilding was halted in Ezra 4: 1-4 because they were trying to rebuild the city, which was forbidden.
In non of these decrees was the conditions of daniel 9 met.
The decree of artaxes, recorded in Neh 2: 1-8 is the first decree which gives permission to rebuild the city.
Neh 2
1 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.”
So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?”
4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”
So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”
6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.
7 Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[a] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, 8 and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple, for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.
so what is the date?
according to nehemiah, the month is nisan, Many historians have held that this date was the first of nisan in the year 445 (which is when artaxes held power) which would make it march 14, 445.
The completion of the first 69 weeks. "messiah the prince"
what day Did Jesus enter jerusalem? He entered 6 days before passover.
History shows the pashal supper, which was eaten before Jesus left, was 9 Nisaan. Jesus spent the sabbath with martha's house where the supper was which was the 9th of nissan. Thus he probably entered jerusalem the next day, on the 10th of nissan, as scripture records.
The julian date of 10 nissan is sunday april 6 ad 32.
looking at it. The dates from march 14, 445 (1 nissan) intil April 6 32 AD (10 nissan) is exactly 173, 880 days, or 7 times 69 years of sevens (360 days according to jewish tradition and calendar)
Start: 14 march BC 445 decree goes out.
end: 6 April 32 AD
Inbetween
476 years plus 24 days (according to Julian callendar)
but 465 years times 365 days (days in year) = 173,740 days.
Ad time from 14 March to 16 April = 24 days
add for leap years = 116 days
total = 173,880 days
using jewish calendar. 69 times 7 (69 weeks of 7 years) times 360 (360 days in jewish year) = 173,880 days.
Thus daniel prophesy of messiah being introduced at the end of 69 weeks is fulfilled.
Which Jesus even declares it. "saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes."
L
Scripture tells us that Jesus died at the end of 69 weeks! I'm not making this up!
Daniel 9:26-27
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 27 gives more info on verse 26, Jesus died in the midst of the week 31 AD
A
Daniel 9:26-27
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 27 gives more info on verse 26, Jesus died in the midst of the week 31 AD
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 27 gives more info on verse 26, Jesus died in the midst of the week 31 AD
Personally I believe its talking about Jesus who confirmed the new covenant for a week and in the midst of the 70th week was cut off and that caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and because of the overspreading of abominations He allowed the temple and the people desolate until the Consummation of the bethrothal (or the wedding feast) which redeemed the desolate people and recoiled them with God. which is spoken of in Revelation 19
I believe that verses 26 and 27 are speaking about the same set of events.
However I do see the other side and it would make sense if you believed that God promised an Earthly Kingdom before the establishment of the NEW Earth and NEW Heaven, but I don't think there is scripture that truly support that notion. Most of what I read talks about Jesus having a SPIRITUAL Kingdom until the destruction of this world after the final judgement after Satan is released and has his last chance to deceive the nations after he was first bound after the wedding feast and the battle where the false prophet and beast were thrown in to the fire.
whether you think the battle between the false prophet, beast, their armies and Jesus is past, present or future. Satan will still have another battle after that one and it is not until then that this wicked world is destroyed and the NEW Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. The NEW Jerusalem is the blessed city, not a city built by the hands of men but by the hands of GOD Himself made up of His chosen people., redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.
Last edited: