A Study of Acts 15 (by 119 Ministries)

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,975
5,016
113
#41
love your neighbor isn't one of the 10 commandments
Then why would Paul say that love is the fulfilling of the Law with reference to the Ten Commandments?

Did you not read what was stated in Romans 13? And there was certainly no bad spelling by Paul or myself!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
8,502
113
#42
Then why would Paul say that love is the fulfilling of the Law with reference to the Ten Commandments?

Did you not read what was stated in Romans 13? And there was certainly no bad spelling by Paul or myself!
you mean the part where Paul quoted Leviticus 19:18?
saying ((rather transcendentally)) that whoever keeps it fulfills all the law?

named as examples a few famous laws, then said "and if there be any other law"?

yes, i read it :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,537
7,836
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#44
Please don't presume to lecture me Dino or know what vetting I've done. Why don't you ask me first and I'll tell you. I personally noted the error of 1 John 4:23 but that didn't detract from the point being made because of the first supporting passage of Deuteronomy 30:11-16, provided. Did it negate his point or the supporting passage of Deuteronomy? Does a secondary reference error negate an entire study? I can count in a single thread on this site multiple citation errors. But if we negated every post or reply based on human error there would be maybe 5 posts on this entire website.

And to the blunt response; surely you've been here long enough to know so I don't have to tell you the basic rules of a thread. I can care less who disagrees with the video or the study or a group who makes the study, but I will be respected here as equally as you or anyone here who doesn't agree with me, and I have full authority to call you or anyone out on it, full, not just as a christian, or as a contributing member here of 4 years, but with it being *my* thread. And it's no less of a right to criticize than you think you have to post this reply to me.

Truth slices both ways, so let's stop defending the unrighteous here.

I appreciate you taking the time to watch what of the study you have.
Since you knew about the erroneous citation, you should have noted it in your OP. Otherwise it's the same as consciously hiding it. You could have simply noted, "there is an unfortunate error of citation at around 11:20..." and given the verse it should have cited (if one exists at all).

Yes, there are lots of citation errors on this discussion board. Many of them are simple keying errors, where the correct passage is easily determined. Such is not the case here. I'm not aware offhand of any verse that says anything of the sort in the NT. Further, the presenter not only spoke the erroneous verse address, it was printed on screen. That's a lot of conscious effort. I noticed that he didn't quote anything for it though; that would have either identified the correct citation or betrayed the absence of one.

I consider it important because I don't think the passage in Deuteronomy gives enough context to support the interpretation as presented in the video. There is one phrase; not even an entire sentence. The rest of the context deals with the Law being accessible rather than unknowable. Without the supporting passage, the point is rather weak, and it is a foundational point to the whole argument.

One more thought: your default to "rules" about the thread is unfortunately consistent with a legalistic mindset about the Christian life. There's a better way. :)
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,764
354
83
#45
Since you knew about the erroneous citation, you should have noted it in your OP. Otherwise it's the same as consciously hiding it. You could have simply noted, "there is an unfortunate error of citation at around 11:20..." and given the verse it should have cited (if one exists at all).

Yes, there are lots of citation errors on this discussion board. Many of them are simple keying errors, where the correct passage is easily determined. Such is not the case here. I'm not aware offhand of any verse that says anything of the sort in the NT. Further, the presenter not only spoke the erroneous verse address, it was printed on screen. That's a lot of conscious effort. I noticed that he didn't quote anything for it though; that would have either identified the correct citation or betrayed the absence of one.

I consider it important because I don't think the passage in Deuteronomy gives enough context to support the interpretation as presented in the video. There is one phrase; not even an entire sentence. The rest of the context deals with the Law being accessible rather than unknowable. Without the supporting passage, the point is rather weak, and it is a foundational point to the whole argument.

One more thought: your default to "rules" about the thread is unfortunately consistent with a legalistic mindset about the Christian life. There's a better way. :)
What can I say Dino...my zeal for obedience is apparent in my entire walk. But your aversion to the rules here is duly noted?? I wonder if the admins here also subscribe to your "better way" of running threads than rules. ;) Those legalists...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,537
7,836
113
#46
What can I say Dino...my zeal for obedience is apparent in my entire walk. But your aversion to the rules here is duly noted?? I wonder if the admins here also subscribe to your "better way" of running threads than rules. ;) Those legalists...
Did I say anything about a better way to run threads? No.

Did I say anything negative about the site rules? No.

Have I contravened the rules of this site in some way by my interaction on "your" thread? No.

Zeal for obedience is fine, I guess, if that floats your boat.

It's just that my Bible just doesn't contain the phrase, "It is for obedience that Christ has set you free." :)
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,137
494
83
#48
Did I say anything about a better way to run threads? No.

Did I say anything negative about the site rules? No.

Have I contravened the rules of this site in some way by my interaction on "your" thread? No.

Zeal for obedience is fine, I guess, if that floats your boat.

It's just that my Bible just doesn't contain the phrase, "It is for obedience that Christ has set you free." :)
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is every one who hangeth on a tree”),
ASV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
AMP
Christ purchased our freedom and redeemed us from the curse of the Law and its condemnation by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs [crucified] on a tree (cross)”—
AMPC
Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);
BRG
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
CSB
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
CEB
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us—because it is written, Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.
CJB
The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.”
CEV
But Christ rescued us from the Law’s curse, when he became a curse in our place. This is because the Scriptures say that anyone who is nailed to a tree is under a curse.
DARBY
Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, (for it is written, Cursed [is] every one hanged upon a tree,)
DLNT
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us— because it has been written, “Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree” [Deut 21:23]—
DRA
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written: Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
ERV
The law says we are under a curse for not always obeying it. But Christ took away that curse. He changed places with us and put himself under that curse. The Scriptures say, “Anyone who is hung on a tree is under a curse.”
EHV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. As it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.”
ESV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
ESVUK
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
EXB
Christ ·took away [redeemed us from; bought our freedom from] the curse ·the law put on us [L of the law]. ·He changed places with us and put himself under that curse [L …by becoming a curse for us]. [L For; Because] It is written in the Scriptures, “Anyone ·whose body is displayed [L who is hung] on a tree is
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,764
354
83
#49
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is every one who hangeth on a tree”),
ASV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
AMP
Christ purchased our freedom and redeemed us from the curse of the Law and its condemnation by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs [crucified] on a tree (cross)”—
AMPC
Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);
BRG
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
CSB
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
CEB
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us—because it is written, Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.
CJB
The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.”
CEV
But Christ rescued us from the Law’s curse, when he became a curse in our place. This is because the Scriptures say that anyone who is nailed to a tree is under a curse.
DARBY
Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, (for it is written, Cursed [is] every one hanged upon a tree,)
DLNT
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us— because it has been written, “Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree” [Deut 21:23]—
DRA
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written: Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
ERV
The law says we are under a curse for not always obeying it. But Christ took away that curse. He changed places with us and put himself under that curse. The Scriptures say, “Anyone who is hung on a tree is under a curse.”
EHV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. As it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.”
ESV
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
ESVUK
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
EXB
Christ ·took away [redeemed us from; bought our freedom from] the curse ·the law put on us [L of the law]. ·He changed places with us and put himself under that curse [L …by becoming a curse for us]. [L For; Because] It is written in the Scriptures, “Anyone ·whose body is displayed [L who is hung] on a tree is
"Must spread around reputation first before giving more to member."

^_^
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,137
494
83
#50
How is it possible to read the Scriptures and walk away saying the commandments were all nailed to the cross? But then, I guess that's the majority rule, as we can see by the state of the world we live in.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,534
993
113
#51
How is it possible to read the Scriptures and walk away saying the commandments were all nailed to the cross? But then, I guess that's the majority rule, as we can see by the state of the world we live in.
Col 2:14(KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,537
7,836
113
#52
Col 2:14(KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Boom! :)
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,137
494
83
#53
Col 2:14(KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
So Christ speaking (Sermon on the mount) means nothing?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,764
354
83
#54
Acts 15 council broken down into its parts...


Acts 15:1-2
And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.


The Question: Is circumcision required FOR SALVATION
Group 1: Certain men from Judea (for "circumcision = salvation") teaching gentile converts in area
Group 2: Paul & Barnabas (against "circumcision = salvation") teaching same gentile converts in area


Acts 15:3-4
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.


^So both groups made their way to Jerusalem declaring how gentiles have believed on Christ with joy, being received of the assembly to decide on the question.


Acts 15:5-6
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.


Group 3: Certain sect of Pharisees believers in Christ (for "circumcision and law-keeping = still important") rose up in Jerusalem.The matter is heard and testimony is given...


Acts 15:7-11
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


^So Peter says...
1) Remember (back in Acts 2) how gentiles of many nations heard the gospel and believed (Pentecost).

2) Yah gave these gentiles the Holy Spirit as proof of conversion (i.e. proof of salvation)

3) We're all the same (referencing Peter's experience with his dream and Cornelius; Acts 10)

4) Why put an unbearable yoke of "Salvation By Works" - in context - on the disciples?

The context of the question remains: "circumcision and law-keeping = salvation???"

The question is not: "circumcision & law-keeping at all??? after salvation???"


Acts 15:12
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them


^so then Paul and Barnabas share their testimony...


Acts 15:13-18
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will (re)build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.


Finally James shares...
1) What Peter is talking about regarding the gentiles is fulfillment of Amos 9:11 (recall that the House of Israel was scattered among the gentiles, becoming gentiles themselves)

2) Yah knows all of his works (said in relation to point 1; Yah doesn't do anything without first revealing it to his prophets. There is no event not first revealed in prophecy)


Acts 15:19-21
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read (present tense) in the synagogues every sabbath day.


^So James pronounces judgment on the matter...

Again the matter is: "circumcision and law-keeping = salvation???"

The matter is not: "law-keeping at all??? after salvation???"

1) Don't trouble them with circumcision

2) Instruct them in the following the 4 rules...

3) ...Because Moses (the law) is taught "to Jew & gentile specifically" - in context - in the synagogues every Sabbath

---

So James' final judgment that the council agrees on concludes the matter of "circumcision & law-keeping for salvation"; a judgment that actually supports law-keeping in obedience after salvation, doesn't it?

[hmm...my formatting may be confusing to the eyes. Apologies if it is.]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,537
7,836
113
#55
So Christ speaking (Sermon on the mount) means nothing?
Context. Always context. Under which covenant was Jesus teaching?

If you want to adhere to the Law, you go right ahead. Just remember this: you have to obey ALL of it for ANY of it to benefit you (Gal. 3:10; 5:2-3). Good luck finding a temple at which to make your offerings, and good luck finding a consecrated priest to receive them.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,807
473
83
#56
Well I think I've finally found a sect of Christianity that I identify with. For anyone who needs a label for me, just call me a "119istariansee" I guess (....I tease).

But seriously though, this guy does a really good study on the debate found in Acts 15 regarding Salvation, Obedience to Yah's law and Legalism that I think will really help believers here to understand the judgment that was passed at that council. His illustrated charts really help maintain the context of all parties involved. It's around 40 mins but flows pretty quickly.



Disclaimer: I have only vetted a few of their videos and the group's statement of faith, chief of which states that "salvation is by faith alone".

Be careful.

Word twisters.


They believe:

The food laws of Judaism
Keeping the law of Moses



JPT
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,764
354
83
#57
Context. Always context. Under which covenant was Jesus teaching?

If you want to adhere to the Law, you go right ahead. Just remember this: you have to obey ALL of it for ANY of it to benefit you (Gal. 3:10; 5:2-3).

Good luck finding a temple at which to make your offerings
points.gif pointing-to-self-gif-7.gif

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


...and good luck finding a consecrated priest to receive them.
pointing-to-self-gif-7.gif points.gif

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,537
7,836
113
#59
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
The verses you quoted relate to the new covenant in Christ's blood, not the covenant of Sinai.

"When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete." (Hebrews 8:13).
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,196
1,426
113
#60
Just after the council in chapter 15, Paul himself circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:3). Did he just purposely make Christ of no value to Tim? There has to be something else we're misunderstanding from the council. And the key - I believe - is found in the words of Acts 15:1:

"circumcision for salvation" was the view of the certain men.
Many did not separate the ceremonial laws as shadows from the moral laws like circumcision or a Sabbath according as to how we are to walk by faith in respect to the unseen eternal . Ignoring the law (2 Corintians 4;18) as to how we can walk by faith the unseen eternal and not by sight after the temporal things seen. It simply leaves a person blind to the end of the matter

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corintians 4;18

This is still happening today with baptism, a ceriminmoinal law as a another shadow that points to the eternal washing and renewing of the Holy Spirit the unseen baptism .

Makes me wonder according to the query in Luke.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?