A thread we can all agree on!

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2015

Exactly and the scriptures I gave that you reposted in post 1358 contradict your conclusion....my bible says that Christ was a ransom for ALL MEN 1st Timothy 2:6...ALL MEN = ALL MEN

How is it that you cannot understand this....

Your Corinthian reference has nothing to do with the discussion found here and in POST 1358....It is quite simple...Christ paid the price for ALL humanity and the sins of HUMANITY except the sin of unbelief (into JESUS) The entire sin debt of humanity has been nailed to the cross, but will only be applied unto those who exercise faith into Jesus...The condemnation of God presently hangs over the heads of all who do not believe.....

Your Corinthian reference.....The natural man cannot receive the things of God, cannot know the things of God because they are spiritually discerned...this does not alleviate the fact that every man has built into their being the ability to believe ( a measure of faith), but unless they exercise that faith, believe they will NEVER BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND the word of God on a spiritual LEVEL...it is not that difficult BRO....

dcontroversal · Feb 7, 2015

forsha said:

Another comment based upon ignorance of what I believe.......I have NEVER given man the glory for what Christ has done....Come on DUDE instead of falsely ACCUSING me of the above falsehoods...go read the threads I have written in...geesh...!

forsha · Feb 7, 2015

dcontroversal said:

It would help if you would back your statements up with scripture, such as the statement, "this does not alleviate the fact that every man has built into their being the ability to believe." If you insist on giving the carnal man a (measure of faith) it will just not harmonize with 1 Cor 2:14. sorry, but I don't know why you do not understand that scripture. It's not that difficult BRO. What is your explanation of John 6:39?

forsha · Feb 7, 2015

dcontroversal said:

All I'm saying is that you are giving the carnal man the ability to believe, which allows him to gain his eternal salvation, instead of giving God credit for putting his Spirit in the carnal man giving him the fruit of that Spirit, which is "FAITH". I am hoping that we can continue to discuss scriptures without getting to disturbed. I don't know what ...geesh...means.

forsha · Feb 7, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Exactly and the scriptures I gave that you reposted in post 1358 contradict your conclusion....my bible says that Christ was a ransom for ALL MEN 1st Timothy 2:6...ALL MEN = ALL MEN

How is it that you cannot understand this....

Your Corinthian reference has nothing to do with the discussion found here and in POST 1358....It is quite simple...Christ paid the price for ALL humanity and the sins of HUMANITY except the sin of unbelief (into JESUS) The entire sin debt of humanity has been nailed to the cross, but will only be applied unto those who exercise faith into Jesus...The condemnation of God presently hangs over the heads of all who do not believe.....

Your Corinthian reference.....The natural man cannot receive the things of God, cannot know the things of God because they are spiritually discerned...this does not alleviate the fact that every man has built into their being the ability to believe ( a measure of faith), but unless they exercise that faith, believe they will NEVER BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND the word of God on a spiritual LEVEL...it is not that difficult BRO....

Does 1 Tim 2:6's "all men" harmonize with John 6:39?

Marian29 · Feb 8, 2015

dcontroversal said:

True!... I watched a movie about the fascinating creation of the Lord, and some intriguing animals designed by the hands of our Lord... their behaviours and body building are described by a cientist who used to be an evolucionist, but after studying so many incredible animals couldn't continue belileving in the evolution as it doensn't explain with so much details the live of these intriguing animals... I wanna share it soon here at CC.

God bless!

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

Marian29 said:

No doubt...I stand amazed at creation....having spent quite a bit of time in the (woods) hunting, fishing etc....I have seen some things that points to the fact that creation has come from the MIND of ONE who is beyond any understanding of intelligence that we have........for sure God is an awesome God........!

forsha · Feb 8, 2015

,UOTE=dcontroversal;1890141]Another comment based upon ignorance of what I believe.......I have NEVER given man the glory for what Christ has done....Come on DUDE instead of falsely ACCUSING me of the above falsehoods...go read the threads I have written in...geesh...![/QUOTE]

Can you tell me this one thing, in John 6:39, who did Jesus die for? Was it for all mankind, or was it for those his Father has given him? It has to be one of the two, and I don't see how you can make that verse include all mankind.

dcontroversal · Feb 8, 2015

forsha said:

Can you tell me this one thing, in John 6:39, who did Jesus die for? Was it for all mankind, or was it for those his Father has given him? It has to be one of the two, and I don't see how you can make that verse include all mankind.[/QUOTE]

How about I ask You a question.....I gave you how many scriptures in context that prove that Jesus paid the price for everyone, all of creation and the whole order of things....do you think that ONE verse alleviates all of the other verses in context?

Google it, look it up in a concordance or open your Greek New testament....the word is KOSMOS (sometimes I type COSMOS) and means the whole order of things....God loved everything that he made.....

1. ALL OF CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS waiting for the adoption!
2. ALL things will be made NEW
3. In due time CHRIST died for THE UNGODLY
4. God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
5. ...God who is the savior of ALL MEN, specially of those that BELIEVE
6. To wit, God was in CHRIST, reconciling the WORLD unto himself
7. And having made peace through the bold of the cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF; by him I say, whether they be things IN THE EARTH, or things in HEAVEN

The word is clear....no offence, but I suggest you adjust your theology as the words ALL MEN, ALL THINGS, THE WORLD, THE UNGODLY, ALL of CREATION, THE KOSMOS are clear...........

posthuman · Feb 8, 2015

i believe we all agree on this!!

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them -- bringing swift destruction on themselves.
(2 Peter 2:1)

so i hope we all agree on this:

reading the epistles leaves no doubt that false teaching was pervading the church even while the apostles still lived! so appealing to 'early church fathers' is not a sure testimony of truth; it must be tested against the scripture.

forsha · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

How about I ask You a question.....I gave you how many scriptures in context that prove that Jesus paid the price for everyone, all of creation and the whole order of things....do you think that ONE verse alleviates all of the other verses in context?

Google it, look it up in a concordance or open your Greek New testament....the word is KOSMOS (sometimes I type COSMOS) and means the whole order of things....God loved everything that he made.....

1. ALL OF CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS waiting for the adoption!
2. ALL things will be made NEW
3. In due time CHRIST died for THE UNGODLY
4. God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
5. ...God who is the savior of ALL MEN, specially of those that BELIEVE
6. To wit, God was in CHRIST, reconciling the WORLD unto himself
7. And having made peace through the bold of the cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF; by him I say, whether they be things IN THE EARTH, or things in HEAVEN

The word is clear....no offence, but I suggest you adjust your theology as the words ALL MEN, ALL THINGS, THE WORLD, THE UNGODLY, ALL of CREATION, THE KOSMOS are clear...........[/QUOTE]

I have attempted to interpret all of the scriptures that you have given me without any of them contradicting each other, can you do the same? I don not think that any verse alleviates other verses in context and have explained to you how they all fit together in perfect harmony. Can you, with the way you interpret scripture, make all of them harmonize without any contradictions? Such as, John 6:39, 1 Cor 2:14, Dan 4:35, Rom 9:11-13, 1 Pet 1:1-4, Rom 9:21-23, Eph 1:4-6, Rom 8:7-9, John 17:2, just to name a few.

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

forsha said:

I have attempted to interpret all of the scriptures that you have given me without any of them contradicting each other, can you do the same? I don not think that any verse alleviates other verses in context and have explained to you how they all fit together in perfect harmony. Can you, with the way you interpret scripture, make all of them harmonize without any contradictions? Such as, John 6:39, 1 Cor 2:14, Dan 4:35, Rom 9:11-13, 1 Pet 1:1-4, Rom 9:21-23, Eph 1:4-6, Rom 8:7-9, John 17:2, just to name a few.[/QUOTE]

Look bro...this is a dead end with you.....the words bolded above and below prove my point sufficiently

ALL<--creation groans and travails waiting for the adoption
ALL<--things will be made new
THE UNGODLY<---Christ died for THE ungodly<--definite article is indicative of ALL of the ungodly
ALL men<--God would have ALL be saved...not possible unless Christ died for ALL MEN
ALL MEN<--Chris is the savior of ALL MEN<---but APPLIED to those who believe<--point above made
THE WORLD<--Christ reconciled the ENTIRE WORLD UNTO HIMSLF
ALL THINGS<---ON EARYT and IN HEAVEN is indicative of ALL THINGS not some...Reconciled by the blood and peace of the cross

It is rather simple....Christ paid the entire debt, check, what was due for ALL THINGS, ALL OF HUMANITY, THE ENTIRE EARTH and reconciled it all unto HIMSELF and THE FATHER.....THE SALVATION, justification and sanctification that is found within Christ is offered unto ALL who will believe it by faith......

What is so hard to understand about that.........It is a blending of what we both are saying....No view can chunk the words found in bold above......ever....! The language is clear.....

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

posthuman said:

i believe we all agree on this!!

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them -- bringing swift destruction on themselves.
(2 Peter 2:1)

so i hope we all agree on this:

reading the epistles leaves no doubt that false teaching was pervading the church even while the apostles still lived! so appealing to 'early church fathers' is not a sure testimony of truth; it must be tested against the scripture.

Amen to this and it seems the Pharisees are still around under the banner of different names.........

forsha · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Look bro...this is a dead end with you.....the words bolded above and below prove my point sufficiently

ALL<--creation groans and travails waiting for the adoption
ALL<--things will be made new
THE UNGODLY<---Christ died for THE ungodly<--definite article is indicative of ALL of the ungodly
ALL men<--God would have ALL be saved...not possible unless Christ died for ALL MEN
ALL MEN<--Chris is the savior of ALL MEN<---but APPLIED to those who believe<--point above made
THE WORLD<--Christ reconciled the ENTIRE WORLD UNTO HIMSLF
ALL THINGS<---ON EARYT and IN HEAVEN is indicative of ALL THINGS not some...Reconciled by the blood and peace of the cross

It is rather simple....Christ paid the entire debt, check, what was due for ALL THINGS, ALL OF HUMANITY, THE ENTIRE EARTH and reconciled it all unto HIMSELF and THE FATHER.....THE SALVATION, justification and sanctification that is found within Christ is offered unto ALL who will believe it by faith......

What is so hard to understand about that.........It is a blending of what we both are saying....No view can chunk the words found in bold above......ever....! The language is clear.....[/QUOTE]

If you would check back in the thread, you would find that I interpreted all of the scriptures in bold above. How about you letting me know how you interpret the ones that I have given you, is the reason you have not attempted to interpret them because you do not know how to interpret them and you just stick them back in a corner and avoid them? All scripture must harmonize, or you don't have the truth and are promoting a false doctrine.

forsha · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Look bro...this is a dead end with you.....the words bolded above and below prove my point sufficiently

ALL<--creation groans and travails waiting for the adoption
ALL<--things will be made new
THE UNGODLY<---Christ died for THE ungodly<--definite article is indicative of ALL of the ungodly
ALL men<--God would have ALL be saved...not possible unless Christ died for ALL MEN
ALL MEN<--Chris is the savior of ALL MEN<---but APPLIED to those who believe<--point above made
THE WORLD<--Christ reconciled the ENTIRE WORLD UNTO HIMSLF
ALL THINGS<---ON EARYT and IN HEAVEN is indicative of ALL THINGS not some...Reconciled by the blood and peace of the cross

It is rather simple....Christ paid the entire debt, check, what was due for ALL THINGS, ALL OF HUMANITY, THE ENTIRE EARTH and reconciled it all unto HIMSELF and THE FATHER.....THE SALVATION, justification and sanctification that is found within Christ is offered unto ALL who will believe it by faith......

What is so hard to understand about that.........It is a blending of what we both are saying....No view can chunk the words found in bold above......ever....! The language is clear.....[/QUOTE]

I do not know why you do not try to explain to me what you think about the nine scriptures above. You have not touched on any of them, do you not know that those nine scriptures will have to harmonize with the explanation of the scriptures you have given to me. Lets discuss and see if we can get them to harmonize.

Reborn · Feb 9, 2015

Maybe you should start a Part 2 to this thread brother DCon?
We all could use some peace right about now?

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Reborn said:

HAHAH I agree........PEACE OUT brother HHAHHA....The peace of God which passes all understanding HAAHHAH

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 9, 2015

I'm wondering who thought this thread was going to spark "agreement" throughout? The OP?

Wild-eyed optimism, huh?

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

For the most part except for a few knee jerk statements it has been fairly smooth and in agreement HAHAHAHAH

forsha · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Look bro...this is a dead end with you.....the words bolded above and below prove my point sufficiently

ALL<--creation groans and travails waiting for the adoption
ALL<--things will be made new
THE UNGODLY<---Christ died for THE ungodly<--definite article is indicative of ALL of the ungodly
ALL men<--God would have ALL be saved...not possible unless Christ died for ALL MEN
ALL MEN<--Chris is the savior of ALL MEN<---but APPLIED to those who believe<--point above made
THE WORLD<--Christ reconciled the ENTIRE WORLD UNTO HIMSLF
ALL THINGS<---ON EARYT and IN HEAVEN is indicative of ALL THINGS not some...Reconciled by the blood and peace of the cross

It is rather simple....Christ paid the entire debt, check, what was due for ALL THINGS, ALL OF HUMANITY, THE ENTIRE EARTH and reconciled it all unto HIMSELF and THE FATHER.....THE SALVATION, justification and sanctification that is found within Christ is offered unto ALL who will believe it by faith......

What is so hard to understand about that.........It is a blending of what we both are saying....No view can chunk the words found in bold above......ever....! The language is clear.....[/QUOTE]

I think that you have no intention of trying to explain the scriptures that I have presented to you because they contradict your way of thinking and you can not make them harmonize with your false interpretations, so you just avoid all scripture that does not agree with you. All throughout the bible Jesus is instructing God's children to "deny themselves" and that's where you are falling short by insisting that man plays a part in his eternal salvation. As long as you do not deny yourself, you will continue to have scriptures that you don't know how to explain. I am beginning to understand why you are avoiding many scriptures because you simply do not have an explanation for them.

A thread we can all agree on!

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