A Toughy

greatblue · Jan 28, 2012

Ecc 1:14 "I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind."

Our bent toward curiosity was indeed our downfall in the beginning. One foothold was all it took. In that moment, not only did we "disobey" God, but we opened ourselves up to disprove God. Gen 3:4 "But the serpent said to the woman, 'You will surely not die". Understand, this is the voice and posture of science today.

Anything that causes stumbling and division is sin, see Gen 3:4. Man's interpretation is the enemy of God, "Well maybe He didn't really mean we would surely die?" Assume that there was plenty of rationalizing before the bite.

This is not a toughy. We're all born to die. For all our time will but last a flicker of a moment. The toughy is denying self in all forms. Thinking about creation dates is utterly self-foolishness and an obvious slap in God's face. Senseless thing for something with an 80-90 year lifespan to even question the fabric of time and space as God created it. Again, it is a stumbling block and we're tiptoeing around a weed that corrupted us in the garden.

Trust God. Learn from our mistakes. We can remember that it took one act of disobedience. No modern voice is any more seductive than that first voice of unbelief in the garden. Know that voice, how to hear it and how it comes at you. If you are a believer it will come, a lot. You simply say, I am not of Adam, I am of Christ. Battle won. Eternity is with the King. Don't go back to wondering about how the earth was created, how long ago, whether science says this or that. Science is Gen 3:4; get away from it.

Learn from Solomon.

A-Omega · Jan 28, 2012

greatblue said:

Ecc 1:14 "I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind."

Our bent toward curiosity was indeed our downfall in the beginning. One foothold was all it took. In that moment, not only did we "disobey" God, but we opened ourselves up to disprove God. Gen 3:4 "But the serpent said to the woman, 'You will surely not die". Understand, this is the voice and posture of science today.

Anything that causes stumbling and division is sin, see Gen 3:4. Man's interpretation is the enemy of God, "Well maybe He didn't really mean we would surely die?" Assume that there was plenty of rationalizing before the bite.

This is not a toughy. We're all born to die. For all our time will but last a flicker of a moment. The toughy is denying self in all forms. Thinking about creation dates is utterly self-foolishness and an obvious slap in God's face. Senseless thing for something with an 80-90 year lifespan to even question the fabric of time and space as God created it. Again, it is a stumbling block and we're tiptoeing around a weed that corrupted us in the garden.

Trust God. Learn from our mistakes. We can remember that it took one act of disobedience. No modern voice is any more seductive than that first voice of unbelief in the garden. Know that voice, how to hear it and how it comes at you. If you are a believer it will come, a lot. You simply say, I am not of Adam, I am of Christ. Battle won. Eternity is with the King. Don't go back to wondering about how the earth was created, how long ago, whether science says this or that. Science is Gen 3:4; get away from it.

Learn from Solomon.

Thinking about creation dates is sin? Where in the Bible does it say this? Where is curiousity a sin? Eve did not believe God and chose to break His stated law. That is not curiousity. That is disobedience and rebellion.

2knowhim · Jan 28, 2012

greatblue said:

I Could'nt agree more. The natural mind is the enemy of God, and the natural mind
doesn't do anything to cause us to grow in Christ, we must put on The Mind of Christ
in order to grow.

We are to keep our minds on things above and NOT on things of this earth.
To be carnally minded is DEATH, it is NOT subject to God.
This kind of mind set causes divisions constantly. Unity happens ONLY in The Spirit of Christ.

God's Word is Spirit and Life.
If Christ is not the focus of every topic, and seeing Him in and through His finished Work,
It is nothing but Confusion, Babylon.

Amen, GET AWAY FROM IT, And Again I say AMEN.

Blessings to you

Saul_Durian · Jan 28, 2012

My biggest problem with this is that evidence is overwhelming on the side of science in almost every case on the earth's age. The only thing that the bible has backing it up (if you adopt the 6-7 thousand years idea) is the bible. In order to fit science into the 6,000 year idea, we have suspend natural law and provable facts.

Sure God could have made it in a way that things just appear to be really old...but why would he? That doesn't make any sense.

I mean really think about this for a second, is it more believable that God would be consistent, and factually accurate in maintaining a natural order to the universe, thus making the universe possibly billions of years old? Or that the men who were "inspired" to write about Genesis did not have a clear way to explain the vast time frames that passed in the universes' creation.

Saul_Durian · Jan 28, 2012

2knowhim said:

I Could'nt agree more. The natural mind is the enemy of God, and the natural mind
doesn't do anything to cause us to grow in Christ, we must put on The Mind of Christ
in order to grow.

We are to keep our minds on things above and NOT on things of this earth.
To be carnally minded is DEATH, it is NOT subject to God.
This kind of mind set causes divisions constantly. Unity happens ONLY in The Spirit of Christ.

God's Word is Spirit and Life.
If Christ is not the focus of every topic, and seeing Him in and through His finished Work,
It is nothing but Confusion, Babylon.

Amen, GET AWAY FROM IT, And Again I say AMEN.

Blessings to you

This is exactly the kind of thinking that threw us into the dark ages after Christianity first hit the scene.

2knowhim · Jan 28, 2012

Saul_Durian said:

I Believe that Christ is The Light of the World, If I walk in Him, The darkness
Is none of my concern, He leads and guides.

And if any darkness is in me then it is exsposed by that same Light.

I don't know about "the dark ages" that you spoke of, that is the past,
I live in Him today, Now.

Blessings

eternally-gratefull · Jan 28, 2012

I think peter answers this well.

3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”

This is exactly what is happening today. Science tells us things today are the same as it was on the first day of creation. Thus the laws of physics and whatever other scientific laws which are in practice today must be followed on the first day of creation. Thus we have what Peter calls "scoffers" or more literally a mocker or a deceiver. Science is using itself to disprove God. to say the earth must be older than 6000 years. That Man was not created, but transformed or evolved from muck. etc etc. Unfortunately. many in the church believe this too.

What does scripture show? It shows mankind has been on this earth for 6000 years or so.

when does scripture say mankind was created?

It says he was created on day six.

Where these days thousands of yeasrs in length like many want to say? or was it a literal 24 hour period as we know it today?

The evening and the morning should give us that clue. He was not talking about years, but a literal solar day.

babyboyblue · Jan 28, 2012

I am a believer that the earth is literally around 6000 years old for several reasons.

God can do all things and is not bound by time or law. He created gravity and distance and light and whatever else. He is capable of creating the earth in 6 literal 24hr periods. Since the bible is the inspired word of God we should go to it for answers.

Humans were created on the six day, if you count backward -

From Us to Jesus was approximately 2,000 years.
From Jesus to the Flood was approximately 2,000.
From the Flood to Adam was approximately 2,000 years.

There was nothing before Adam except for 5 days. Prior to that the earth was not formed.

God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. God has also commanded Humans to work 6 days (as He did) and rest the 7th (as He did). The bible says 1000 yrs is as a day to the God (Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8)The bible also says that the saints will live and reign with God for 1000 years. God will continue his work to save all who would be saved, but there is coming a Sabbath. A day (to God) of rest. For 6 days God worked (6,000 years to men) to save men and will rest on the 7th (1,000 years to me). We are nearing the end of the 6th day. Soon God will come.

CBM82 · Jan 28, 2012

greatblue said:

Ecc 1:14 "I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind."

Our bent toward curiosity was indeed our downfall in the beginning. One foothold was all it took. In that moment, not only did we "disobey" God, but we opened ourselves up to disprove God. Gen 3:4 "But the serpent said to the woman, 'You will surely not die". Understand, this is the voice and posture of science today.

Anything that causes stumbling and division is sin, see Gen 3:4. Man's interpretation is the enemy of God, "Well maybe He didn't really mean we would surely die?" Assume that there was plenty of rationalizing before the bite.

This is not a toughy. We're all born to die. For all our time will but last a flicker of a moment. The toughy is denying self in all forms. Thinking about creation dates is utterly self-foolishness and an obvious slap in God's face. Senseless thing for something with an 80-90 year lifespan to even question the fabric of time and space as God created it. Again, it is a stumbling block and we're tiptoeing around a weed that corrupted us in the garden.

Trust God. Learn from our mistakes. We can remember that it took one act of disobedience. No modern voice is any more seductive than that first voice of unbelief in the garden. Know that voice, how to hear it and how it comes at you. If you are a believer it will come, a lot. You simply say, I am not of Adam, I am of Christ. Battle won. Eternity is with the King. Don't go back to wondering about how the earth was created, how long ago, whether science says this or that. Science is Gen 3:4; get away from it.

Learn from Solomon.

God gave us brains. Its not a sin to use them

2knowhim · Jan 28, 2012

CBM82 said:

Do you think the Crown of Thorns was just decoration they placed on His Head?

Do you think it's a coincidence that the place He was crucified is called The place
of The Scull?

Do you think that Paul said to be Carnally minded is Death,.. in Vain?

And last but not least, do you think it's a coincidence that "The Enmity" which is
The Carnal mind "brains" as you say, is an Enemy to God?

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Hos 13:2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.

greatblue · Jan 28, 2012

I never directly stated that curiosity in and of itself is sin. I did intimate that it was curiosity that lead to sin in Gen 3:4. We see that disobedience didn't come before curiosity, but curiosity before disobedience. We constantly forget just how simple, how plain God made it for us. Our entire state of depravity is solely rooted in one disobedient act where we allowed our mind to trump God's mind. The major problem is that we've let the beginning become archaic in light of a modern perspective. We started with the truth, in the truth. From the bite, we began running, tumbling from the truth. You have to fight to hold to it, regardless of what technology does, or science does. Through Jesus we are led back to the garden, back to God's original command not to eat, and...well...do we eat? Have we learned? Through Christ we are redeemed, yes. But have we learned?

CBM82 said:

Especially when those brains are aligned to Christ. I'm not saying it is "sin" to wonder or think about the creation of the earth. I said it is a slap in God's face, ultimately because there is absolutely no point for me to question or wonder about times and dates (and I'm really pulling in the mind of Solomon here). And I admit that I have no biblical basis for saying God is unhappy when we think about creation's form. Obviously if we are giving Him glory, then he his pleased! My whole response is that it is not a "toughy". If it is a "toughy", then we should take that as conviction of something we need to stay clear of.

What is the benefit of entertaining ideas about the earth's age? Is it a hobby? Apologies for sarcasm. But christians have allowed their views of Genesis and the Word to skew in light of modern science. If the goal and fight is to hold to the truth, then I'm saying to myself and others that we need to ignore anything that causes further separation. Now...obviously thinking about scientific advancements and even marveling at them is fine...but if the marvel leads to, "Yeah I don't know this is looking pretty convincing now in 2012."...well we should remember the Gen 3:4 writing on the wall, and remove ourselves from the conversation.

So...long-winded apologies...but if I'm starting to let science enter my internal discourse on God, change the biblical foundation, or dictate my future thinking...then I'm running from it. Hopefully, I'll know enough to want to...and that's the real toughy.

CBM82 · Jan 28, 2012

Well, if I ever come to a fork in the road where I have to choose between science and God, I'm gonna choose God without hesitation a 100% of the time. But I'm not someone who thinks all science is the devil and is just an evil ploy to stir us away from the truth. Is there bad science (evolution)? You bet, but there is bad theology as well. I think its funny to think that if anyone thinks about the age of the earth or considers the idea that the earth is old is slapping God in the face, denying his word, and allowing the devil a.k.a. science to brain wash them. I think science is good when we use it to prove that God and his word is true. Science only becomes a problem when people try and use it to disprove God and his word.

CBM82 · Jan 28, 2012

2knowhim said:

The crown of thorns has to do with the fact that God cursed the ground after the fall and it brought forth thorns and thistles. Its got nothing to do with the brain or thinking lol

Its believed by some that the place Jesus was crucified was called Golgotha (place of the skull) because it was on a hill or near a rock shaped like a skull. What does that have to do with being curious and thinking lol?

And yes it is wrong to be sinful minded

2knowhim · Jan 28, 2012

CBM82 said:

And you just proved my point, these things are Spiritually Discerned and you can only see
the natural, physical, literal letter, surface of the Word, as of now.

There is so much more to Thorns and Thistles than what you can preceive.
If you were to do a study on the subject you might come to see why they were
placed on His head.

Blessings

iamsoandso · Jan 28, 2012

in gen.1;3-5 god said let there be light,,and it divided the light from the darkness he called the light day,and the darkness he called night.,,,but notice then again in verse 14-16,,,,,,,,,,on the "fourth day",,,,and so three full days had already come to pass the evening and the morning,,,and then god made lights(plural),,,not like in the beginning,,,,,, light (singular),,,,,but these lights (plural) more than one ,,are for "signs and seasons and for days and years",,,(verse 14),,,,,,,so if you notice the keeping of time did not began until the fourth day of creation.(that is the measurement of it",notice that the tree's and fruit ect. were created in the third day before the creation of the different types of light used to measure time,,,sun,moon, stars ect.,,,,so then the "first three days" then are not,,,"measured using the same standard of time " god said in verse 5,,,,and the evening and the morning were he first day,,,,but notice in verse 14 the earth was not yet in orbit around the sun and the moon was not yet in orbit around the earth,,,nor were the stars,,,,so the reckoning of time until verse 14 had not yet begun to be used as a "clock" until verse 14,,,,,they did not exist yet.,,,,,that is as we(mankind)recon time ....the earth orbits around the sun and in its orbit it rotates giving us years and days and mounts and the stars also move in their orbits in aspect to the earth...so there was/is another light that it was measured with until verse 14.so we assume that the first three days were the same in time as the days 4,5,6,7,,,,,,,,,but if the first light was way farther out in orbit than (our sun) then in the first day the earth may have taken 20 million years to complete its it's path and it's rotation the evening and the morning on the first,second and third day.
now remember that when the "boxing day earthquake" took place in in Indonesia astronomers and scientist using gps satellites proved that for a fraction of (time) the earth stopped in its orbit,,,doesn't seem to make any difference at first,,,but notice this,,,,,,,if you take a simple math problem
if you take a circle one inch and draw a line up and down and across its center then you have four 90 degree angles,,,if you measure 17.5 thousandths of an inch in "one inch" that is 1 degree of angularity,,,,,if you continue that one inch line out for two inches it is still one degree but it is not 17.5. inches anymore between the two lines if you continue out five inches and so on outward as if you were aiming at a "star in the Orion's" then if the earth stopped in it's tracks for a "millisecond" the we the people of earth that use the "clock" day,orbit,24 hours,,ect. were just thrown off by a million miles,,,,,,,,,and if the time that is was "paused",,,,,,,,,and there were many earth quakes from the beginning of the "fourth day till now",,,,,,,,,,then "time as we know it"(arbitrary to the earth) in its axis and orbit,is off an unknown amount,,,,,,,,,but notice the spring still comes in the spring and the summer in the summer ect.ect.,,,,,,,,,,but the "scientist and the astrolagers" will tell you that it did do this when in fact it could have not.,if you take a pice of paper and make a circle and put lines in it and form 4 pies and then draw one line out of it some where close to 1 degree and aim it at a star you'll see what i'm getting to.
a while ago there was a man in the news and he said he reckoned that the earth would end "may something",,,it didn't he redid his math it didn't again "i thought,,,,god stopped the sun in the sky,,,,and then again he stopped it and it went back in the sky,,,,,,"remember "Joshua",,,,,now that i thought was "a wonderful work of god to consider it" because if the sun stoped and the stars kept going,,,,,,,,then it was winter,,,,,,,,,,and that afternoon spring. god works great works he knows each time the earth stopped (earthquake) ,,,,,,(he stopped the sun),,,,,,,,,and must have stopped every star and planet in its tracks at the same time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and then told them again "go",,,,,,,,,,,,what a "beautiful mighty god",,,all powerful,,,,,,to say go and they all move and then stop and they all obey.,,well the scientist can tell you all about the earth "stopping in it's tracks",,,,,,but none of them can tell you how the stars and the moon brought it back up in time with them.....

CBM82 · Jan 28, 2012

2knowhim said:

There is such a thing as reading the text and there is such a thing as reading into the text. You can begin to try and over spiritualize everything. Make a metaphor out of everything. Where do you draw the line?

I see what you were getting at...but sometimes you try and make connections that arent there. Associating the crown of thorns and Golgotha with being curious mined or a person who likes to think, is just bizarre in my opinion.

2knowhim · Jan 28, 2012

CBM82 said:

See that's just it, I am not capable of making those connections only The Holy Spirit can.
So be careful of who you mock.

And by the way, Gods word is Spirit.
And His thoughts are Higher than ours.

And I'm sure it does sound bizarre to you.

CBM82 · Jan 28, 2012

2knowhim said:

I'm not mocking the Holy spirit and I'm not mocking you either. I just don't agree with your interpretations sometimes.

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