A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

bikerchaz · Sep 11, 2016

lol I knew that his post would be misunderstood no worries I got you buddy. He was saying that that because of his love and grace we don't have to fear being condemned to hell whenever we sin. Many use the fear of hell to keep people in line some preachers are very into using hell to scare people into faith as they think well fear of God is better than none of God but how can one know him out of fear of going to hell every time they sin?

Yeah, but dose that mean when they sin they shrug it off and don't care?

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

I believe the best answer I can give is this, I have relationship with God. Because Jesus made me sin free, Holy Spirit abides with me, if He didn't I wouldn't be united with Holy Spirit. His first name is Holy for a reason.

Because I have been washed, cleansed, and justified. I can have relationship with God. Like ANY relationship if I do something that hurts the other party I apologize. I don't for fear of going to hell, but because I love the other party. I love Him because He loved (and loves) me first. So to minimize His love for me or for others doesn't actually draw me closer to Him. That's a stumbling block many trip on.

bikerchaz said:

voiceinthewild · Sep 11, 2016

bikerchaz said:

I know you're asking him, but I'll answer for me.

I cuss more frequently than I'd like and I feel convicted about it as well, but the Lord knows it's something I struggle with (the light of the world shouldn't be swearing like a stranded sailor). Me personally, I know the worst possible outcome of my cussing will be to turn someone away from Christ. Because I love people and want them to know Christ and be saved, it's consequence is worse than some secret sin which no one knows about. I'm not going to "Hell" because I cuss, and I know His grace covers me, but I do feel like I disappoint my Heavenly Father and I disappoint myself when I cuss.

Then I repent and move forward in faith, determined to do better. Can't change the past.

bikerchaz · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

So should you fall, bang yer head and stand on a nail and cuss because your human you would say sorry, is this what you are saying? because it seems to me its what I do. You can't say sorry without acknowledging the offence, then moving forward in thankfulness for what we have in Jesus? if this is so for all of us then why do we call each other and accuse each other of being in fear of hell?

Or is it that the words Jesus spoke don't mean that much and I am twisting them?

Blain · Sep 11, 2016

bikerchaz said:

if they shrug it off and don't care then they don't understand grace and are misusing it. the important thing is a repentant heart if one doesn't have repentant then yes they shrug it off and don't really care only a repentant heart can use and understand grace fully one with such a heart would never misuse grace like that

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

True grace doesn't not permit us to stay the same; after we know we are not condemned because we are in Christ - it empowers us to change and to do good works from the life of Christ in us.

Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as true grace after knowing acceptance grace and having this truth cemented in our hearts - it is then that God's empowerment is released through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.

When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know that we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own self-effort and strength but we surely desire to live this life that is in us in Christ - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.

PollyAnna · Sep 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

When someone never talks about Jesus and His love and grace but in all posts there is nothing but condemnation, demonic, death, sin and accursedness and evil and hatred - there is something wrong.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is never spoken of - the Lord Jesus and His beauty is never spoken about. All this speaks volumes to me.

Jesus in His own words had this to say about "this spirit".

Luke 9:54-56 (NASB)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"

[SUP]55 [/SUP] But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

[SUP]56 [/SUP] for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

Was Jesus polite to false teachers? Your credibility has been washed down the drain, in my opinion, by your defending Joseph Prince alone.

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

You're looking at the "action" which can be religion.
I am looking at the "heart" which is relationship.

Two people can do the EXACT same things, but one be in the wrong.

Did you notice that Jesus always addressed people's hearts? That He rarely answered a question directly? That He said out of the "heart" man is defiled? I am simply saying this, I have relationship with God because of the great sacrifice He made. And that relationship looks differently to each person. If you simply follow what I do without relationship behind it you're following religion.

The idea that we are going to hell if we swear is interesting:

Scripture says we are washed, cleansed, and justified. We know this because we are united with God. We are not united with God by our actions. But because of Christ. This is the same illustration given of a High Priest in the OT.

Scripture also tells us to "love one another". If we are going to repent about anything, this is actually what we should truly repent about.

Does this mean swearing because I hit my thumb with a hammer is right? No it doesn't. When Paul said he counted everything as "dung" you do realize that "dung" wasn't a very clean term back then? And when Isaiah said our righteousness is "filthy rags" you do realize that would be considered swearing in his day? Were they wrong? Some would say no because their words are written in the Bible others would say yes because they were "offensive" or "unclean".

You do realize that Jesus said it is our words that would condemn? That Jesus said how you treat one another is how you will be judged? That the law that you exert on others is the law that you will be judged with? So whatever your answer is to these questions shows what you will be judged with yourself.

Of course, if you want to give up any and all self-righteousness then we are judged by Jesus' perfect work. And then because of this, we can come into the throne of grace with boldness. And we can have an actual relationship with the Living God. And if He convicts you of swearing then, AMEN, repent and grow in your relationship with Him.

But do you realize Scripture says that something as simply as eating meat can go against a weak conscience? So it's not the eating of meat that matters, but the conscience. Because it's about RELATIONSHIP.

So while we ourselves are to be judged by no one because we are spiritual (another Scripture) we are also to not judge the Lord's servants ourselves (another Scripture). Why? Because we have been given mercy.

Why am I writing all this to such a seemingly simple question? Because it's about RELATIONSHIP. So what is right for you, might not be right for me, and what is right for me, might not be right for you. But what we can agree is this: we have access to God by Christ. Not by our actions. And it is because of this access we can have relationship with Him. And HE will uphold us. (another Scripture).

bikerchaz said:

PollyAnna · Sep 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Is that supposed to be a heavy weight statement? LOL
This site appears to be (Ive been combing the threads as far back as I can go) full of many people that revere the likes of Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen, and many many more. "The wisdom is in the multitude of men "who actually study like bereans in the spirit of truth

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

And in case you're thinking, oh he's just justifying swearing, let me answer you directly now. I rarely if ever swear (even if I hit my thumb with a hammer) and people generally apologize when they accidentally swear around me. Why do I not swear? Not because I'm afraid of hell, but because I choose not to swear. I don't have any desire to do it. Because God transformed me when I became united with His Spirit.

bikerchaz · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

You're looking at the "action" which can be religion.
I am looking at the "heart" which is relationship.

Two people can do the EXACT same things, but one be in the wrong.

Did you notice that Jesus always addressed people's hearts? That He rarely answered a question directly? That He said out of the "heart" man is defiled? I am simply saying this, I have relationship with God because of the great sacrifice He made. And that relationship looks differently to each person. If you simply follow what I do without relationship behind it you're following religion.

The idea that we are going to hell if we swear is interesting:

Scripture says we are washed, cleansed, and justified. We know this because we are united with God. We are not united with God by our actions. But because of Christ. This is the same illustration given of a High Priest in the OT.

Scripture also tells us to "love one another". If we are going to repent about anything, this is actually what we should truly repent about.

Does this mean swearing because I hit my thumb with a hammer is right? No it doesn't. When Paul said he counted everything as "dung" you do realize that "dung" wasn't a very clean term back then? And when Isaiah said our righteousness is "filthy rags" you do realize that would be considered swearing in his day? Were they wrong? Some would say no because their words are written in the Bible others would say yes because they were "offensive" or "unclean".

You do realize that Jesus said it is our words that would condemn? That Jesus said how you treat one another is how you will be judged? That the law that you exert on others is the law that you will be judged with? So whatever your answer is to these questions shows what you will be judged with yourself.

Of course, if you want to give up any and all self-righteousness then we are judged by Jesus' perfect work. And then because of this, we can come into the throne of grace with boldness. And we can have an actual relationship with the Living God. And if He convicts you of swearing then, AMEN, repent and grow in your relationship with Him.

But do you realize Scripture says that something as simply as eating meat can go against a weak conscience? So it's not the eating of meat that matters, but the conscience. Because it's about RELATIONSHIP.

So while we ourselves are to be judged by no one because we are spiritual (another Scripture) we are also to not judge the Lord's servants ourselves (another Scripture). Why? Because we have been given mercy.

Why am I writing all this to such a seemingly simple question? Because it's about RELATIONSHIP. So what is right for you, might not be right for me, and what is right for me, might not be right for you. But what we can agree is this: we have access to God by Christ. Not by our actions. And it is because of this access we can have relationship with Him. And HE will uphold us. (another Scripture).

I do agree we stand or fall by our own conscience as His servants. I was not trying to trick you with craftiness, I have been told I am as crafty as a slug is quick. i truly wanted to know how you dealt with stuff, like one bloke to another, having a chat I was not trying to catch you out.

What comes to mind are "always be ready to give account of our faith"

God bless.

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

PollyAnna said:

"who actually study like bereans"

1. You insinuate he doesn't study Scripture (passive-aggressiveness)
2. You slander him in other posts (which is a work of the flesh)
3. You laugh at him rudely (which is a work of the flesh)
4. You lift yourself up as a Berean against him (which is a work of the flesh)
5. You don't actually know what a Berean is according to Scripture (which betrays your actual Scripture understanding).

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

What is hate according to Scripture?

PeterJens · Sep 11, 2016

voiceinthewild said:

This is a good question. It goes to the heart of what sin is.

Is sin just part of the nature of man, part of his state and creation or a reflection of a problem
that can be solved?

God is saying the problem with sin is because of not knowing God, and love, and our own hearts.
God is the source of life, cut Him off, and we die. You cannot hack a branch from a tree and
expect it to live.

But once broken, how can this relationship be reestablished and how can life begin to flow again?
Becoming a jew was part of the idea, understanding the law and righteousness, and having faith
in the author. But all this was a shadow of Gods heart. Jesus represents the ultimate statement
of love and who God is. Jesus gives us the faith and confidence to know the foundation on which
we stand.

So saying you can have this relationship, in its purest form, its most open declaration and still sin,
is to deny the very nature of the statement of Christ.

People use the word sin like it is something singular, but it is very much many different issues.
Equally resolution is not a simple case of simplicity, but of reconciliation, honesty, openness.

Peter denied Jesus, but there is not a definition of this break in the law, but it was very real.
Judas did completely break his relationship, but again there is no definition in law about this.

So the law is limited, though fantastic, it is a pointer of issues rather than a definer of them or
even a resolver.

Now the true legalists go fear is evil, lack of faith is evil, and probably many other things that I
am not aware of, but which you could argue is a problem.

But in the end God is saying "Do you love me, Do you repent and want to walk in my ways?"

So using the law as more than a guide of principle becomes failure, and reject it completely and
conviction of sin, is also wrong.

Now we all experience relationship problems when we upset others. So upsetting the Lord matters,
and I know many miss-use His words, disown His principles, which upset Him. But if you have no
sensitivity to this or a possibility things are wrong, it is likely you have become hard hearted and fallen
into error.

Does this answer your question?

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

I actually didn't think you were trying to catch me out

I gave you a simple answer first, but then you said something along the lines of "ignoring Jesus".

So I figured you wanted a Scriptural answer. Which was a little more indepth and took several Scriptures together.

Bless you too brother.

C.

bikerchaz said:

Blain · Sep 11, 2016

I don't think we sin as believers because of a lack of faith or love for God I think it has to do with several factors human imperfection obviously but also just as people have different standards and deal with things differently I think we also sin and deal with sin differently, honestly I sin far more than I should self control is not my strong suit but my love and desire for God is very abundant others may not sin as much as me but may deal with it in a way I don't.

Some people have more self control than others and have standards that morally in their hearts prevents them from sinning as much but they themselves may be very lacking in love and may not even know God that much. Honestly there are many different factors of what sin is to people how they deal with sin and who they are as both Christians and sinners

PeterJens · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

Amen. Jesus is about the heart and how real we are, without kinks or hidden hurts, without
contradictions or self deceptions, like a clean crystal, simple and open.

When I was much younger I thought along these lines. The bible is great but unless its meaning
dwells within me, it is just a book, and I am just a human. I can read a sentence, but unless all
the connected meaning forms a clear whole, then it gets lost, and I can go astray.

In all camps, in all avenues of life some understand about the heart, and some hide from it because
it is a place of fear and monsters, with hurts and wounds they are scared will rip them apart.
PTSD is said to be a raw as the incident that caused the emotional wound.

I believe walking deeply with the Lord is about unraveling these issues and them being healed.
I know this is dangerous territory, but Christ brought us love, something eternal, something powerful,
something that conquers. Yet often people who talk about miracles as a sign, seem to shy away from
things within.

So I rejoice Cee with your emphasis on these things, because this is where my heart is.
And it is also where my heart says, if we can be healed, cleansed and straightened, then walking like
Christ should be our inheritence. I would suggest we rarely see a glimpse of this because so many
emotional barriers and complexities often take it away from us.

But I know my Lord, and this seems to be His promise, to set the prisoner free, to bring the slave into
glorious freedom of righteousness. But so many seem unable to even see the end of the tunnel, or
even believe it is anything but deception.

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

Beautifully said my friend.

We don't have to agree on everything to be brothers in the Lord.

But everything you have written here, I do agree with, and I rejoice with you in. My heart is that the Church would walk in freedom that Christ paid for Her to walk in as well.

PeterJens said:

Amen. Jesus is about the heart and how real we are, without kinks or hidden hurts, without
contradictions or self deceptions, like a clean crystal, simple and open.

When I was much younger I thought along these lines. The bible is great but unless its meaning
dwells within me, it is just a book, and I am just a human. I can read a sentence, but unless all
the connected meaning forms a clear whole, then it gets lost, and I can go astray.

In all camps, in all avenues of life some understand about the heart, and some hide from it because
it is a place of fear and monsters, with hurts and wounds they are scared will rip them apart.
PTSD is said to be a raw as the incident that caused the emotional wound.

I believe walking deeply with the Lord is about unraveling these issues and them being healed.
I know this is dangerous territory, but Christ brought us love, something eternal, something powerful,
something that conquers. Yet often people who talk about miracles as a sign, seem to shy away from
things within.

So I rejoice Cee with your emphasis on these things, because this is where my heart is.
And it is also where my heart says, if we can be healed, cleansed and straightened, then walking like
Christ should be our inheritence. I would suggest we rarely see a glimpse of this because so many
emotional barriers and complexities often take it away from us.

But I know my Lord, and this seems to be His promise, to set the prisoner free, to bring the slave into
glorious freedom of righteousness. But so many seem unable to even see the end of the tunnel, or
even believe it is anything but deception.

justthefacts · Sep 11, 2016

Man o man, looks like a good study of 1Cor chapter 15 is in order.

Do you not understand that there are two spirits within you?

I am not speaking of the Holy Spirit who abides with the believer, but of the natural spirit of man who is prone to sin and the new spirit of man given of God at the time of salvation like unto His own.

This is discussed and explained by the apostle Paul.

Now the old spirit of man [His natural spirit of this world] cannot help but sin because of its weakness and shall be destroyed, but the new spirit [the new man of God, the inner man] is protected by the blood and never sins with whom the Holy Spirit abides, however, just because the inner man is protected by the blood does not mean that if it willingly sins there is no recourse, for as it is written: I shall not be Mocked saith the Lord, for what so ever a man soeth, that shall he reap.

God Bless

JTF

Cee · Sep 11, 2016

justthefacts said:

Man o man, looks like a good study of 1Cor chapter 15 is in order.

Do you not understand that there are two spirits within you?

I am not speaking of the Holy Spirit who abides with the believer, but of the natural spirit of man who is prone to sin and the new spirit of man given of God at the time of salvation like unto His own.

This is discussed and explained by the apostle Paul.

Now the old spirit of man [His natural spirit of this world] cannot help but sin because of its weakness and shall be destroyed, but the new spirit [the new man of God, the inner man] is protected by the blood and never sins with whom the Holy Spirit abides, however, just because the inner man is protected by the blood does not mean that if it willingly sins there is no recourse, for as it is written: I shall not be Mocked saith the Lord, for what so ever a man soeth, that shall he reap.

God Bless

JTF

You mean this old spirit of man?

Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

Stephen63 · Sep 11, 2016

valiant said:

FreeNChrist said:

Greek Strong's Number: 5546
Greek Word: Χριστιανός
Transliteration: Christianos
Phonetic Pronunciation:

khris-tee-an-os'
Root: from <G5547>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:493,1322
Part of Speech: n pr m
Vine's Words: Christian

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
Christian 3
[Total Count: 3]

from <G5547> (Christos); a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ :- Christian.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

You people will say ANYTHING to counter the truth..... which says a lot about your character.

A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

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