A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[notuptome]

Ephesians 4:11 God gifts pastors to the church. Want a good pastor seek him of the Lord. Folks in the congregation get what they want.

We just went through a transition from a pastor who was there fifty years and the new man is great. The old pastor is still a member of the congregation and things are going smoothly even though the new man is making changes. Not in biblical content but you know just how stuff gets done around the place.

God answers prayers when He is sought for the right man in Gods time. If you have not it's because you ask amiss. For those who claim its ok for a woman to pastor a church just how does she become the husband of one wife?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Reading 1 Corinthians 11 in conjunction with 1 Timothy 2 should convince the discerning Bible student that Paul believed women should only speak under the authority of their husband or their pastor, who is under the authority of Christ. The eleventh chapter of the first letter to Corinth isn't teaching that women should cover their heads. It is metaphorical for the headship of a husband or pastor to sanction anything the woman says in church.

Therefore, if a woman aspires to teaching, she is allowed, providing she places herself under headship of one or the other. Meaning, she can hold any teaching or preaching office in the church except that of senior pastor.

 

[WebersHome]

-
Word to the wise:

†. 2Tim 2:5 . . If anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the
victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.

Female pastors will be given no reward for their work because they refuse to
play by the rules; which are:

†. 1Cor 11:3 . . But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God.

†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

†. 1Cor 14:34-35 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What was at the heart of Adam's downfall? It was a woman who refused to
play by the rules.

†. Gen 3:17-19 . . To Adam he said: Because you listened to your wife and
ate from the tree about which I commanded you "You must not eat of it"
Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you
will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your
food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust
you are and to dust you will return.

We today live in a cursed world because a man listened to a woman instead
of listening to God; and to this very day there are Eve-ish women at large
working on men persuading them to ignore Christ and do things contrary to
his wishes. Sheep to the slaughter.

=====================================

 

[p_rehbein]

Reading 1 Corinthians 11 in conjunction with 1 Timothy 2 should convince the discerning Bible student that Paul believed women should only speak under the authority of their husband or their pastor, who is under the authority of Christ. The eleventh chapter of the first letter to Corinth isn't teaching that women should cover their heads. It is metaphorical for the headship of a husband or pastor to sanction anything the woman says in church.

Therefore, if a woman aspires to teaching, she is allowed, providing she places herself under headship of one or the other. Meaning, she can hold any teaching or preaching office in the church except that of senior pastor.

Good thing God never sent missionaries to the all women tribes in the Amazon huh?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

We today live in a cursed world because a man listened to a woman instead
of listening to God; and to this very day there are Eve-ish women at large
working on men persuading them to ignore Christ and do things contrary to
his wishes. Sheep to the slaughter.

Don't know, Web ... this reads as though Eve's giving into Satan's deception was some kind of conspiracy between she and the snake. I don't believe she deliberately disobeyed, or else it would be her own sin that led humankind astray. But the Bible says it is only Adam's sin. Right after Paul writes he does not allow a woman to speak in church, he also says:

1 Timothy 2, NASB
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
​

The implication? Adam sinned, Eve was deceived. There is a difference. The Greek apatao -- transliterated apatao -- means to be beguiled, cheated, deceived. There is no implication of sin there, though she received the same punishment as Adam. Her's was a sin of omission, not pressing Adam to give her the information needed to love and obey God. But Adam's sin was a failure to obey outright.

He knew they were not to eat of the fruit. He should have lovingly gripped his wife's elbow and said, "Eve, honey, drop the fruit and step away from the talking snake." Instead he, with full knowledge of impending death, took of the fruit and ate it anyway. He had not been proactive with Eve, telling her forthrightly, "Stay away from that tree, it'll kill you." He knew the consequences, and ate anyway.

Eve didn't know consequences, she didn't know facts, but she suffered deception when she had a fount of knowledge at her side who could have warned her. It is partially her fault in not asking. It is entirely his fault for not speaking up in the first place.

 

[WebersHome]

Is there an example in the Old Testament law where God ordained a woman
to rule and judge men?

Wake up and get your bearings. We today do not live in the Old Testament
era. That ship has sailed: it's gone and it's never coming back. We today live in
the New Testament era and Christ's wishes have the priority now.

†. Matt 17:5 . .Behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a
voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My beloved son, with whom I am well
pleased: Listen to him!

†. John 3:36 . . He who does not obey The Son shall not see life, but the
wrath of God abides on him.

=========================================

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

The "women" spoken of by Paul that are to remain silent is WISDOM! One man through his wisdom in gained knowledge believes he has to go to "church" on Saturdays. Another believes through his wisdom in gained knowledge that he can go to "church" on Sundays. Paul is telling both of these men through their wisdom or "women" to shut the hell up! Do not usurp the authority that the man was given! This is why people here would rather debate the same issues over and over like laps around a track.

You have an issue with it in any regard, learn about it then in silence and not in open ridicule! Learn WHY that man goes to "church" on a particular day, always remembering that it is ALWAYS right to do good on ANY day!

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

The "women" spoken of by Paul that are to remain silent is WISDOM!

Uh ... NO!

The Greek sofia -- transliterated sophia -- is the word translated "wisdom." The word in 1 Timothy 2:10, 15 for woman is gune -- gune -- and can only be translated "woman" or "wife." Nice try. Well, no ... not really. It was just plain wrong, man.

 

[WebersHome]

Therefore, if a woman aspires to teaching, she is allowed, providing she
places herself under headship of one or the other. Meaning, she can hold
any teaching or preaching office in the church

That reminds me of the excuse that German soldiers came up with when
they were questioned about their role in the death camps. They said: You
can't blame us. We were only following orders and obeying our superiors.

It's amazing sometimes the evil that people are willing to commit just so
long as someone above them says it's okay.

=============================================

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

Uh ... NO!

The Greek sofia -- transliterated sophia -- is the word translated "wisdom." The word in 1 Timothy 2:10, 15 for woman is gune -- gune -- and can only be translated "woman" or "wife." Nice try. Well, no ... not really. It was just plain wrong, man.

There you go, letting your "woman" talk for you! Be silent and learn.


Christ is simple. Why then do I have to research Greek???? That's not my language, in the least. But now I ask you, since you are letting your woman (wisdom) speak for you; what is the "Greek" word used for the "woman" in Revelation?

 

[p_rehbein]

That reminds me of the excuse that German soldiers came up with when
they were questioned about their role in the death camps. They said: You
can't blame us. We were only following orders and obeying our superiors.

It's amazing sometimes the evil that people are willing to commit just so
long as someone above them says it's okay.

=============================================

Comparing women in the Ministry to Nazi soldiers running the death camps?

(whole 'nuther level of "low" there)

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

That reminds me of the excuse that German soldiers came up with when
they were questioned about their role in the death camps. They said: You
can't blame us. We were only following orders and obeying our superiors.

Engage in logical fallacies much? That's ridiculous.

While the Bible does not support the practice of women serving as senior pastors, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes-difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus, correcting his incomplete and flawed theology.

Acts 18, NASB
24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
​

Women clearly played a significant role in the work of the Apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen significant ministerial helpers in chapter sixteen, and at least ten of them were women. Who knows what the health of the church at Philippi would have been were it not for Lydia?

Acts 16
13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside , where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.
14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.
​

She was obviously a benefactor to the church, and others such as Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. 4:2-3) were also significant women in ministry. And of course, women made a significant contribution to Jesus' ministry. Luke recalled with appreciation their financial support and company with Him.

Luke 8
1 Soon afterwards , He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.
​

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. Obviously both Jesus and Paul knew they could. The question becomes, what is the nature of their ministry in the church? More specifically, it is permissible for a woman to serve as senior pastor? The obvious answer is "no."

There was not a female pastor in any first-century New Testament church. Paul's admonition in 1 Timothy 2:12, 13 must preclude a woman from being senior pastor -- "I do not permit a woman to preach or exercise authority over a man" absolutely negates that. But taken in conjunction with 1 Corinthians 11, where a woman is to submit to authority in her husband or her pastor, it cannot be successfully argued that other offices in the church are barred to women. Such a view is narrow-minded and, in fact, unbiblical. That is the evil you should be railing against.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

There you go, letting your "woman" talk for you! Be silent and learn.

Take your own advise, and be civil and respectful in doing so.

Christ is simple. Why then do I have to research Greek????

Gee, I dunno. Maybe because it's the language in which the New Testament Bible was written?

That's not my language, in the least. But now I ask you, since you are letting your woman (wisdom) speak for you; what is the "Greek" word used for the "woman" in Revelation?

"Woman" is used several times in the Revelation. I'm sure you refer to the eight usages in chapter twelve, and the six usages in chapter seventeen. In chapter 12, the woman is Israel. In chapter 17, the woman is a harlot, dressed in "purple and scarlet." She is adorned in gold, silver, and jewels, a woman of great wealth. The contrast to this beautifully impressive exterior is that her cup is filled with “abominations and the filthiness of her fornication” (verse 4). In other words, she deceives many by her appearance. Although she looks beautiful and has the trappings of wealth, luxury and authority, her actions are an abomination to God.

She is spiritual harlotry, the eternal rejection of God and His Son. She is not a "woman" of the human variety, but is a harlot of seduction, one who leads humankind astray, away from God and toward destruction.

Nice try. But even though the word gune is used, the usage, in this case, is symbolic of man's willingness to trade God for power, money, and sex. To reject righteousness for abomination. To be given over to their own depravity.

 

[Mitspa]

Wake up and get your bearings. We today do not live in the Old Testament
era. That ship has sailed: it's gone and it's never coming back. We today live in
the New Testament era and Christ's wishes have the priority now.

†. Matt 17:5 . .Behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a
voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My beloved son, with whom I am well
pleased: Listen to him!

†. John 3:36 . . He who does not obey The Son shall not see life, but the
wrath of God abides on him.

=========================================

Since when did God get on a ship and sail... He is still the same...and since when is the example of Old testament law not supposed to be considered? Especially since Paul told us to look to the law for what he was teaching?

 

[Mitspa]

Ex 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
Jg 4:4 ¶ And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
2Ki 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they communed with her. {wardrobe: Heb. garments} {in the...: or, in the second part}
2Ch 34:22 And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they spake to her to that effect. {Hasrah: also called, Harhas} {wardrobe: Heb. garments} {in the college: or, in the school, or, in the second part}
Ne 6:14 My God, think thou upon Tobiah and Sanballat according to these their works, and on the prophetess Noadiah, and the rest of the prophets, that would have put me in fear.


Ok so we have Old testament women as judges and prophets....do we have any in the New Testament? Yes....so did they speak in the assembly? yes as prophets!

 

[WebersHome]

-
Eve was fully informed of both the consequences and the facts; though she
did embellish them a bit.

†. Gen 3:2-3 . .And the woman said to the serpent: From the fruit of the
trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the
middle of the garden, God has said "You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest
you die."

Of course God didn't prohibit touching; just eating; but even so, her
dialogue with the serpent attests that Eve knew enough.

Now, a subtle detail often overlooked is that God didn't forbid both people to
eat the fruit;. No, He only forbad Adam; and that is a very, very important
detail. So in order to cause the human race to begin dying out, it was
essential that the serpent get Adam to eat the fruit.

Well; I'm of the opinion that the serpent was pretty sure he would fail at
talking Adam into eating the fruit; but I think he'd been observing the couple
long enough to discover that men do not like to refuse their women.

Well; the serpent was smart enough to figure out that Eve was immune to
the fruit; so all he had to do was convince her it was safe for human
consumption. Ironically, his statement "You surely shall not die" was 110%
true; but it was a half-truth. No doubt in her mind "you" meant both people,
but not in the serpent's. He meant only Eve-- thus was born what we call a
false impression.

Anyway, long story short, what's a man to think when here's his woman happily
munching away on a fruit that he was led to believe was toxic; yet here she
is right next to him displaying no apparent ill side effects and her eyes as
bright as can be from the sugar rush; and she's insisting, even demanding,
that he share it with her.

Well; right then and there, Eve accomplished something that the serpent
was unable to do. She talked her husband into tasting the fruit. How many
guys have been led down the primrose path in the very same way; viz: by
listening to a women instead of heeding their better judgment?

Women seldom shoulder any blame for those kinds of mistakes. No; they'll
say "You're a man. You should have been firm; you should have stood up to
me". Well; we all know what happens when men dare to be firm and/or
stand up to their women don't we? (chuckle) I think Adam figured it would
be better to disappoint God than to disappoint his woman; after all, he had
to live with his woman, he didn't have to live with God.

================================

 

[Mitspa]

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Now this "saved" is not talking about saved from sin...its deliverance from the condition of the transgression that Eve brought upon women. the word childbearing is "raising children" Paul is saying a woman's first calling is to raise her children...but if she continues in faith , love etc ... she is delivered from the condition of the transgression.

 

[Mitspa]

-
Eve was fully informed of both the consequences and the facts; though she
did embellish them a bit.

†. Gen 3:2-3 . .And the woman said to the serpent: From the fruit of the
trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the
middle of the garden, God has said "You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest
you die."

Of course God didn't prohibit touching; just eating; but even so, her
dialogue with the serpent attests that Eve knew enough.

Now, a subtle detail often overlooked is that God didn't forbid both people to
eat the fruit;. No, He only forbad Adam; and that is a very, very important
detail. So in order to cause the human race to begin dying out, it was
essential that the serpent get Adam to eat the fruit.

Well; I'm of the opinion that the serpent was pretty sure he would fail at
talking Adam into eating the fruit; but I think he'd been observing the couple
long enough to discover that men do not like to refuse their women.

Well; the serpent was smart enough to figure out that Eve was immune to
the fruit; so all he had to do was convince her it was safe for human
consumption. Ironically, his statement "You surely shall not die" was 110%
true; but it was a half-truth. No doubt in her mind "you" meant both people,
but not in the serpent's. He meant only Eve-- thus was born what we call a
false impression.

Anyway, long story short, what's a man to think when here's his woman happily
munching away on a fruit that he was led to believe was toxic; yet here she
is right next to him displaying no apparent ill side effects and her eyes as
bright as can be from the sugar rush; and she's insisting, even demanding,
that he share it with her.

Well; right then and there, Eve accomplished something that the serpent
was unable to do. She talked her husband into tasting the fruit. How many
guys have been led down the primrose path in the very same way; viz: by
listening to a women instead of heeding their better judgment?

Women seldom shoulder any blame for those kinds of mistakes. No; they'll
say "You're a man. You should have been firm; you should have stood up to
me". Well; we all know what happens when men dare to be firm and/or
stand up to their women don't we? (chuckle) I think Adam figured it would
be better to disappoint God than to disappoint his woman; after all, he had
to live with his woman, he didn't have to live with God.

================================

Funny it didn't stop God from calling Deborah? so maybe your not as smart as you think?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Eve was fully informed ... [blah blah blah] ... have to live with God.

That is the most blatantly disgusting sexist, misogynistic post I've had the displeasure to read on this forum. You have unbiblically blamed the sin of the whole human race on women, specifically Eve. That doesn't even begin to line up with Scripture, or biblical teaching.

Tell me, is your ideal woman always barefoot and pregnant?

 

[WebersHome]

since when is the example of Old testament law not supposed to be
considered? Especially since Paul told us to look to the law for what he was
teaching?

It is Christ's wishes that his followers listen to Paul.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

And it is God's wishes that everybody listen to His son.

†. Matt 17:5 . .Behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a
voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My beloved son, with whom I am well
pleased: Listen to him!

You will no find neither Paul nor Christ giving the okay for female pastors; in
point of fact you will find them clearly opposing female pastors. People who
approve female pastors are overstepping Paul; and they are overstepping Christ.

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