A World Of Christless Christians

VCO · Feb 10, 2015

I feel sorry for you SeaBass, you are still lacking in Spiritual Understanding, I see.

The eternal life of the resurrected body is future, HOWEVER the eternal life of the human spirit begins when you mourn over your sinfulness and surrender complete control to Jesus Christ as your LORD and MASTER. Just before, sometimes moments before you can do that, the Holy Spirit enters your Heart and pours the LOVE of GOD into that heart, causing your once dead human spirit to be birthed into Eternal Life, (Born Again).

Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
{Obviously it was NOT the body that was once dead, but rather it is the human spirit, because of the sin nature we inherited from ADAM.}

John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes{The Jewish understanding of what "believes" actually means involves much more than acknowledging the fact. One must put his WHOLE TRUST and his whole COMMITMENT on whom he claims to believe in, thus it includes becoming born again, receiving Him as GOD the SON, and surrendering to Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER; or it is less than believing in HIM.}
in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. {Again that is the Jewish definition of what constitutes actually believing, not the English definition. And YES there were Jews that believed in Him back then, in fact 3000 Jews came to actually BELIEVE in Him on the Day of Pentecost.}

1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. {That is implying that believers actually do have eternal life abiding in them, here and now.}

1 John 5:11-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn’t have the Son of God does not have life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, {"in the name of" is an expression that involves all that the person is. That certainly involves HIS being GOD the SON, LORD, MASTER, and MESSIAH.} so that you may know that you have eternal life.

WebersHome · Feb 10, 2015

(chuckle) Some people's posts resemble Christmas decorations.

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SeaBass · Feb 10, 2015

VCO said:

I feel sorry for you SeaBass, you are still lacking in Spiritual Understanding, I see.

The eternal life of the resurrected body is future, HOWEVER the eternal life of the human spirit begins when you mourn over your sinfulness and surrender complete control to Jesus Christ as your LORD and MASTER. Just before, sometimes moments before you can do that, the Holy Spirit enters your Heart and pours the LOVE of GOD into that heart, causing your once dead human spirit to be birthed into Eternal Life, (Born Again).

Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
{Obviously it was NOT the body that was once dead, but rather it is the human spirit, because of the sin nature we inherited from ADAM.}

John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes{The Jewish understanding of what "believes" actually means involves much more than acknowledging the fact. One must put his WHOLE TRUST and his whole COMMITMENT on whom he claims to believe in, thus it includes becoming born again, receiving Him as GOD the SON, and surrendering to Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER; or it is less than believing in HIM.}
in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. {Again that is the Jewish definition of what constitutes actually believing, not the English definition. And YES there were Jews that believed in Him back then, in fact 3000 Jews came to actually BELIEVE in Him on the Day of Pentecost.}

1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. {That is implying that believers actually do have eternal life abiding in them, here and now.}

1 John 5:11-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn’t have the Son of God does not have life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, {"in the name of" is an expression that involves all that the person is. That certainly involves HIS being GOD the SON, LORD, MASTER, and MESSIAH.} so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Lk 18:30; 1 Jn 2:25; Tts 1:2

These verses plainly show that eternal life is not something possessed in this life.

Lk 18:30 eternal life is in the world to come, not in this life. 1 Cor 15:53ff a corruptible mortal cannot possess something as eternal life but must first put off the corruption/mortality and put on incorruption, immortality to possess eternal life.

1 Jn 2:25 eternal life is a promise, a promise is something not yet realized. If it has been realized it no longer is a promise.

Tts 1:2 Paul was in hope of eternal life. Rom 8:24,25 one does not hope for what he sees, but has hope for that which he does not see.

Eternal life is sometimes spoken in present tense based upon the certainty of God's promises...Rom 4:17 "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were." Those one does not possess eternal life now, God's promise is so ertain to them that continue to believe that it is spoken of in present tense.

VCO · Feb 10, 2015

SeaBass said:

☝t<><

Like I said, that is only talking about the eternal life of the physical body. The verses that I showed you with past tense verbiage, are talking only about the eternal life of the human spirit:

1 John 5:11-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn’t have the Son of God does not have life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, {"in the name of" is an expression that involves all that the person is. That certainly involves HIS being GOD the SON, LORD, MASTER, and MESSIAH.} so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Every person who is genuinely Born Again, has already had his or her human spirit immersed into the Spiritual Body of Christ Himself. AND THUS THEIR HUMAN SPIRIT ALREADY HAS ETERNAL LIFE, AND WILL NEVER DIE.

John 11:26 (GW)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?”

Your understanding makes Jesus a liar, while my understanding that HE is talking about the human spirit only, leaves it at ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

VCO · Feb 10, 2015

WebersHome said:

You should see my old NIV Thompson Chain Study Bible.

Back when I was a lot younger, I used to carry 6 colors of highlighters to Church with me.

Green highlighted verses pertaining to SALVATION.

Pink highlighted verses pertaining to SIN.

Yellow highlighted verses pertaining to the PROMISES OF GOD.

Orange highlighted verses pertaining to OBEDIENCE TO GOD.

Blue highlighted verses pertaining to LOVE FOR GOD.

Purple highlighted verses pertaining to THE RAPTURE AND HIS KINGDOM.

SeaBass · Feb 11, 2015

VCO said:

Lk 18:30; 1 Jn 2:25; Tts 1:2

These verses show eternal life is not something one possesses in this life. One can possess the promise of eternal life in this life and if that person does not remain faithful, he can lose the promise of eternal life.

Jn 11:26 the never dying is CONDITIONAL upon one continuing to live and believe in Christ, with both verbs "liveth" and "believeth" being present tense. If one quits living and believing in Christ he loses the promise of eternal life.

Eph 1:13.14 a Christian has the 'earnest' of eternal life, not possession of eternal life in totality. Why would one need an earnest if he already possesses eternal life in totality?

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2015

SeaBass said:

And here we have the perfect example of a Christ less Christian (in word only)

Jabberjaw · Feb 11, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

This is all you have?, no value to the cordial conversation?, silence does not display ignorance, however aspersions like this do!, you'd do better to continue the cordial conversation even if silence is your only way to do it.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 11, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

Why, I can;t add to what the op already said, I think he said it quite clear.

SeaBass does not believe one has eternal life. thus he does not believe on has Christ, Because Christ is eternal life.

But hey, thats ok. I know your just like SeaBass, another Christless Christian trying to earn your way to Gods grace, and thus rejecting the grace offered by God based on what his son did, and not what you may or may not do.

Jabberjaw · Feb 11, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Then why add anything?

eternally-gratefull said:

SeaBass says what the bible says, one must "obtain" eternal life, you will not have eternal life in this carnal life, but what you do in this carnal life will determine your obtaining your promised (by His Grace) eternal life :

Matthew 19:16-22 (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

This man did not "do" what the Lord said and went away sorrowful, this means he did not do the "what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life", so what makes you think you don't have to do anything? what makes you better than the rich young ruler?

Jesus said in verse Matt 19:17 "Why callest thou me good? ther is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." and again here:

1 John 5:3 (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

So go on thinking you have nothing to do, that Jesus did it all for you, one day you will see when Jesus said "it is finished" he did "His part", he did not "do yours".

eternally-gratefull said:

Not one scripture (you never do) just opinion... as I said "no value to the cordial conversation?, silence does not display ignorance, however aspersions like this do!, you'd do better to continue the cordial conversation even if silence is your only way to do it."

john832 · Feb 11, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

Then why add anything?

SeaBass says what the bible says, one must "obtain" eternal life, you will not have eternal life in this carnal life, but what you do in this carnal life will determine your obtaining your promised (by His Grace) eternal life :

Matthew 19:16-22 (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

This man did not "do" what the Lord said and went away sorrowful, this means he did not do the "what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life", so what makes you think you don't have to do anything? what makes you better than the rich young ruler?

Jesus said in verse Matt 19:17 "Why callest thou me good? ther is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." and again here:

1 John 5:3 (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

So go on thinking you have nothing to do, that Jesus did it all for you, one day you will see when Jesus said "it is finished" he did "His part", he did not "do yours".

Not one scripture (you never do) just opinion... as I said "no value to the cordial conversation?, silence does not display ignorance, however aspersions like this do!, you'd do better to continue the cordial conversation even if silence is your only way to do it."

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

this pretty much eliminates anyone human. If you think you are not flesh and blood, take the hatpin test.

WebersHome · Feb 11, 2015

-
It's almost humorous that people who lack eternal life are very good at
proving they are not supposed to; while people who have eternal life are
very good at proving they are supposed to. (chuckle) The Bible is a curious
book. It is just as useful for proving something is wrong as it is for proving
that the very same thing is right.

Now, if we throw in the anointing spoken of at 1John 2:26-27, things really
get interesting because the anointing's purpose to help people detect error.

=================================

prodigal · Feb 11, 2015

John 17:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

VCO · Feb 11, 2015

SeaBass said:

☝t<><

Wrong, they are CONDITIONAL upon having your human spirit birthed into ETERNAL LIFE by the Holy Spirit.

ONLY then will you have a spiritual mind to understand deep spiritual truths.

John 3:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (HCSB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Hebrews 9:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 5:11-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn’t have the Son of God does not have life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Eternal Life begins with human spirit, and after our resurrection that Eternal Life will be in our bodies too. That Eternal Life has to be in your spirit before you die, or you will NEVER see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Disciples4Jesus · Feb 11, 2015

this topic is an oxymoron

you can't be a christless christian anyways, its not possible...

Disciples4Jesus · Feb 11, 2015

you're either in...or you're out

However; a righteous man will fall 7 times and get back up
...however falling is sin so resist the devil and shall flea from you

Disciples4Jesus · Feb 11, 2015

what then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Heavens no

WebersHome · Feb 11, 2015

-

Disciples4Jesus said:

Webster's defines a Christian as: one who professes belief in the teachings
of Jesus Christ

According to Webster's, it isn't necessary to actually believe in the teachings
of Jesus Christ in order to qualify as a Christian. One need only profess belief
in his teachings. And one need not even know his teachings. All that one has
to do is give his teachings a vote of confidence; and they can have a
Christian tag with their name on it.

=========================================

VCO · Feb 11, 2015

john832 said:

Flesh and blood is what the Bible calls the mortal body.

Man is much more than flesh and blood, he is body, soul, and spirit.

Eternal Life begins in the human spirit, the body and soul will not have Eternal life until it is rid of the Sin Nature. If we have that Eternal Life in our human spirits, that Eternal Life and Sinless Nature of our bodies and souls will happen in the twinkling of an eye when we resurrected or caught up to be with HIM forever.

Jabberjaw · Feb 11, 2015

john832 said:

Exactly, and why one cannot inherit eternal salvation until after they die...

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