About New Testament specially Paul writings

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DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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#21
Strange how so many here read the topic of Peter's remarks in 2 Pet.3 about some things hard to be understood in Paul's writings, but then show inability to actually address the things Peter was talking about in that 2 Pet.3 chapter.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#22
Strange how so many here read the topic of Peter's remarks in 2 Pet.3 about some things hard to be understood in Paul's writings, but then show inability to actually address the things Peter was talking about in that 2 Pet.3 chapter.
That's because Paul we understand but not Peter :p
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#23
Oh, so you've got a bone to pick. Well quit hiding in the shadows like a coward. Out with it!
Now why cant you play nice!

The answer is in the post, maybe it seems a dark shadow to you lol

But if you don't understand what i wrote, further explanation might be futile
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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#24
That's because Paul we understand but not Peter :p
And why is that, when Peter was speaking about "these things" also in Paul's Epistles?

2 Peter 3:14-1614 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.



15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
KJV

I don't find Paul's teachings about the law and grace being all that difficult. The "some things hard to be understood" is about the subject Peter was covering there in that 2 Pet.3 chapter of world ages. Can someone tackle the Romans 8 Scripture by Paul concerning the creature?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#25
Now why cant you play nice!

The answer is in the post, maybe it seems a dark shadow to you lol

But if you don't understand what i wrote, further explanation might be futile
I don't think you intend to speak plainly, but intend riddles of your own making.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#26
Oh, so you've got a bone to pick. Well quit hiding in the shadows like a coward. Out with it!
Heres a clue.

Read rom 10:4, rom3:20-22, rom 3:28, then read Jude 4

Then see how they relate to ignorant and unstable people distorting the scriptures to their own destruction
If you cant work it out, this conversation has to be over
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#27
Heres a clue.

Read rom 10:4, rom3:20-22, rom 3:28, then read Jude 4

Then see how they relate to ignorant and unstable people distorting the scriptures to their own destruction
If you cant work it out, this conversation has to be over
I sense you didn't like my exposition (on another thread) about the "mystery of iniquity" and "workers of iniquity", which is what the Jude 1:4 verse is pointing to with the crept in unawares. Obviously that is not given to you to understand.

In those Romans Scriptures you posted, that is about the simple matter that Salvation is only by Faith on Jesus Christ, and not by the law. You won't find anywhere in my posts where I have spoken against that.

And furthermore, you failed to actually address "these things" Peter was covering in 2 Peter 3 which is what he was pointing to in Paul's writings. So let's see you attempt the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#28
If Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. If the christian has a righteousness before God apart from the law, if a christian has a righteousness before God apart from observing the law Christ MUST have died for all a believers sins, past, present and future
The people mentioned in Jude 4 used grace as a licence to sin. How? Well obviously they believed as they had a righteousness before God apart from the law they had a licence to sin
Who was it who plainly preached a righteousness apart from the law? Paul

Therefore what scriptures( for peter likened Paul's letters to scripture) were ignorant and unstable people reading and distorting to their own destruction?

This conversation I not stimulating
Bye
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
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#29
And why is that, when Peter was speaking about "these things" also in Paul's Epistles?

2 Peter 3:14-1614 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.



15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
KJV

I don't find Paul's teachings about the law and grace being all that difficult. The "some things hard to be understood" is about the subject Peter was covering there in that 2 Pet.3 chapter of world ages. Can someone tackle the Romans 8 Scripture by Paul concerning the creature?
Yes, I take the "hard to understand things" Peter is referring to in context is Paul's treatment of future events e.g. in First and Second Thessalonians. Which some were over turning the faith of others by saying the Day of the Lord had come.
Here is the context...

2 Peter 3:3-14 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, following their own lusts,
4 saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation."
5 They willfully ignore this: long ago the heavens and the earth existed out of water and through water by the word of God.
6 Through these the world of that time perished when it was flooded by water.
7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 Dear friends, don't let this one thing escape you: with the Lord one day is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years like one day.
9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that [day] the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, [it is clear] what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness
12 as you wait for and earnestly desire the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be on fire and be dissolved, and the elements will melt with the heat.
13 But based on His promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness will dwell.
14 Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found in peace without spot or blemish before Him.
 
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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#30
Yes, I take the "hard to understand things" Peter is referring to in context is Paul's treatment of future events e.g. in First and Second Thessalonians. Which some were over turning the faith of others by saying the Day of the Lord had come.
Here is the context...

2 Peter 3:3-14 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, following their own lusts,
4 saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation."
5 They willfully ignore this: long ago the heavens and the earth existed out of water and through water by the word of God.
6 Through these the world of that time perished when it was flooded by water.
7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 Dear friends, don't let this one thing escape you: with the Lord one day is like 1,000 years, and 1,000 years like one day.
9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that [day] the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, [it is clear] what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness
12 as you wait for and earnestly desire the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be on fire and be dissolved, and the elements will melt with the heat.
13 But based on His promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness will dwell.
14 Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found in peace without spot or blemish before Him.
And the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture in comparison?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#31
And then there is this, which I consider Paul speaking with Luke's handwriting:

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:


26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."


27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.


28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:


29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,294
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#32
FYI ONLY: (not offering an opinion)

Excerpt from Article:

(Read 2 Peter 3:1-4)

The purified minds of Christians are to be stirred up, that they may be active and lively in the work of holiness. There will be scoffers in the last days, under the gospel, men who make light of sin, and mock at salvation by Jesus Christ. One very principal article of our faith refers to what only has a promise to rest upon, and scoffers will attack it till our Lord is come. They will not believe that he will come. Because they see no changes, therefore they fear not God, Psalm 55:19. What he never has done, they fancy he never can do, or never will do.

From Matthew Henrys Commentary found at christnotes.org Bible Commentary
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#33
And the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture in comparison?
I never found anything difficult about that passage.
I suppose some of Paul's writings to some are difficult in one place and to others difficult in another place.
It's just that in the 2nd Peter passage 'these things' is referring to Paul's eschatology that many twist.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,294
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#34
[h=1]Galatians
1:6[/h]
6.) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7.) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8.) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9.) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#35
FYI ONLY: (not offering an opinion)

Excerpt from Article:

(Read 2 Peter 3:1-4)

The purified minds of Christians are to be stirred up, that they may be active and lively in the work of holiness. There will be scoffers in the last days, under the gospel, men who make light of sin, and mock at salvation by Jesus Christ. One very principal article of our faith refers to what only has a promise to rest upon, and scoffers will attack it till our Lord is come. They will not believe that he will come. Because they see no changes, therefore they fear not God, Psalm 55:19. What he never has done, they fancy he never can do, or never will do.

From Matthew Henrys Commentary found at christnotes.org Bible Commentary
Yes, and per Peter in that 2 Pet.3 chapter, he said the scoffers are "willingly ignorant" about God's destruction of the old world.

2 Peter 3:3-73 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
KJV
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#36
I never found anything difficult about that passage.
I suppose some of Paul's writings to some are difficult in one place and to others difficult in another place.
It's just that in the 2nd Peter passage 'these things' is referring to Paul's eschatology that many twist.
Can you go into detail with it then?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
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#37
Can you go into detail with it then?
I listed it in post 29 and I believe it is in reference to 1Thess 4:13-18, 5:1-10 and 2Thess 2:1-13
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
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#38
What I get out of those verses is that it's a very dangerous thing to misrepresent what somebody is teaching. This happens all the time with discernment and apologetics ministries.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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#39
I listed it in post 29 and I believe it is in reference to 1Thess 4:13-18, 5:1-10 and 2Thess 2:1-13
No, the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture that I mentioned.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#40
No, the Romans 8:18-25 Scripture that I mentioned.
Yes that is eschatological too, but I don't see how a wrong view of that section would have too much of a detriment on someone's walk...
Anyways, I'm shuttin down for Thanksgiving. Have a nice Thanksgiving.

Romans 8:18-25 KJVS
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. [23] And not only they , but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit , the redemption of our body. [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it .