About the Book of Job Chapter four

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JLG

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Nov 4, 2021
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#1
Eliphaz speaks to Job:
- Wilt thou be grieved? (Job 4:2)
- Remember, I pray thee (“na’”), who [ever] perished, being innocent? Or where were the righteous cut off? (Job 4:7)
We are probably not living in the same world: you can be a good or a bad person and die suddenly of an accident, of a disease, just walk and die because of a lost bullet, or because you are at the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens every day.
- Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same (Job 4:8)
When we read the Bible, there are many examples of the contrary.
Then a spirit speaks to him in a vision when he sleeps, accusing Job (Job 4:12-21)
What an encouragement, indeed!
The conclusion of this chapter: many die without wisdom!
Does Job have no wisdom? He was apparently able to help many people as Eliphaz recognizes it at the beginning!
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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#2
Eliphaz speaks to Job:
- Wilt thou be grieved? (Job 4:2)
- Remember, I pray thee (“na’”), who [ever] perished, being innocent? Or where were the righteous cut off? (Job 4:7)
We are probably not living in the same world: you can be a good or a bad person and die suddenly of an accident, of a disease, just walk and die because of a lost bullet, or because you are at the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens every day.
- Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same (Job 4:8)
When we read the Bible, there are many examples of the contrary.
Then a spirit speaks to him in a vision when he sleeps, accusing Job (Job 4:12-21)
What an encouragement, indeed!
The conclusion of this chapter: many die without wisdom!
Does Job have no wisdom? He was apparently able to help many people as Eliphaz recognizes it at the beginning!
The three 'friends' of Job are todays Laeodician christians, the "name it and claim it" and "if you just had faith" bunch.
i have been to their churches and they preach that Job was in sin.
That his sin was fear - "the thing Job feared came upon him"

They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".

Those who preach the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture are also of the "three friends" of Job.

Today, many are suffering, some of it can be attributed to error/sin/ bad choices and yet many others are suffering as Job, where there is no 'blame' to be pinned upon them.
The suffering of the Brethren who are under assault by satan and his angels and this present evil world.

So when we could bear it no longer, we were willing to be left on our own in Athens.
We sent Timothy, our brother and fellow worker for God, in the gospel of Christ,
to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, so that none of you would be shaken by these trials.
For you know that we are destined for this.

Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution; and as you know, it has come to pass. For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter had somehow tempted you and caused our labor to be in vain.
1 Thessalonians 3:1-5
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
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#3
They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".”


Definitely right: the conclusion of the Book of Job is essential. We mustn’t forget that God’s vision is different from ours and that we are often short-sighted. One of our problems is related to time, our lives don’t last long, our experience is limited. Job also lived longer than us according to the Bible.

Q: #177. How old was Job when his suffering occurred?
By: Steve Shirley

A: As with the previous question How long did Job suffer?, we cannot know for sure from the Bible. However, we can make a few inferences based upon what we read in Job.
First, Job was old enough to be married (Job 2:9)(Job 19:17)(Job 31:10).
Second, he had 10 children (Job 1:2). In addition, it appears that these 10 children were adults because they each had their own homes (Job 1:4), and Job made sin sacrifices for each of them (Job 1:5).
*** Note: Although the sacrificial system for sin had not yet been established in Job’s time, sacrifice for sin was not needed until a child reached 20 years old (Ex 30:14-15).
Third, Job had built a reputation as “the greatest of all the men of the east” (Job 1:3). This takes time.
Fourth, after his trials, Job was still young enough to father 10 more children (Job 42:13).
Now, keeping these facts in mind, let us look at tradition. Jewish tradition holds that Job’s latter years were twice his former years. If this is true, and the Bible says that Job lived 140 years after his trials (Job 42:16), then Job would have been about 70 when his trials occurred. The LXX, or Septuagint (Q: #178) also appears to confirm this.
This seems to fit well with our facts above, and also makes sense from several other points of view as well.
For one, after his trials, God gave Job double the number of livestock that were taken from him (Job 1:3)(Job 42:12). (Job 42:16) continues, saying that Job lived for 140 years after his trials. If Job was 70 at the time his trials began, and lived for 140 years after them, then God also gave Job double the years to live. This being the case, he would have lived to be 210 years old.
According to most scholars, the book of Job should be placed chronologically near the beginning of Genesis, just before Abraham. If this is true, then Terah, Abraham’s father, would have been living at the same time as Job, and lived to almost the same age: 205 (Gen 11:32).
*** Note: From the flood onward, people lived shorter and shorter lives. Abraham lived to be 175 (Gen 25:7). By the time of the Psalmists, a normal old age was about the same as ours today: 70-80 years old (Ps 90:10).
Finally, I believe that it is also important to consider (Job 42:16), which says that Job lived to see 4 generations of children and grandchildren during the 140 years of life after his trials. Now I am FAR from being a math expert, but as I see it, if you run the math, and figure out when each of these generations might have had children, and assume that it was in line with when Job had his first ten children, it also points to an age of about 70 for when Job may have faced his trials. (Or maybe not)
At any rate, in my opinion, I do believe that based on the above, Job was probably in about the first third of his life, or 70, when his trials began.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,616
1,845
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#5
They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".”


Definitely right: the conclusion of the Book of Job is essential. We mustn’t forget that God’s vision is different from ours and that we are often short-sighted. One of our problems is related to time, our lives don’t last long, our experience is limited. Job also lived longer than us according to the Bible.

Q: #177. How old was Job when his suffering occurred?
By: Steve Shirley

A: As with the previous question How long did Job suffer?, we cannot know for sure from the Bible. However, we can make a few inferences based upon what we read in Job.
First, Job was old enough to be married (Job 2:9)(Job 19:17)(Job 31:10).
Second, he had 10 children (Job 1:2). In addition, it appears that these 10 children were adults because they each had their own homes (Job 1:4), and Job made sin sacrifices for each of them (Job 1:5).
*** Note: Although the sacrificial system for sin had not yet been established in Job’s time, sacrifice for sin was not needed until a child reached 20 years old (Ex 30:14-15).
Third, Job had built a reputation as “the greatest of all the men of the east” (Job 1:3). This takes time.
Fourth, after his trials, Job was still young enough to father 10 more children (Job 42:13).
Now, keeping these facts in mind, let us look at tradition. Jewish tradition holds that Job’s latter years were twice his former years. If this is true, and the Bible says that Job lived 140 years after his trials (Job 42:16), then Job would have been about 70 when his trials occurred. The LXX, or Septuagint (Q: #178) also appears to confirm this.
This seems to fit well with our facts above, and also makes sense from several other points of view as well.
For one, after his trials, God gave Job double the number of livestock that were taken from him (Job 1:3)(Job 42:12). (Job 42:16) continues, saying that Job lived for 140 years after his trials. If Job was 70 at the time his trials began, and lived for 140 years after them, then God also gave Job double the years to live. This being the case, he would have lived to be 210 years old.
According to most scholars, the book of Job should be placed chronologically near the beginning of Genesis, just before Abraham. If this is true, then Terah, Abraham’s father, would have been living at the same time as Job, and lived to almost the same age: 205 (Gen 11:32).
*** Note: From the flood onward, people lived shorter and shorter lives. Abraham lived to be 175 (Gen 25:7). By the time of the Psalmists, a normal old age was about the same as ours today: 70-80 years old (Ps 90:10).
Finally, I believe that it is also important to consider (Job 42:16), which says that Job lived to see 4 generations of children and grandchildren during the 140 years of life after his trials. Now I am FAR from being a math expert, but as I see it, if you run the math, and figure out when each of these generations might have had children, and assume that it was in line with when Job had his first ten children, it also points to an age of about 70 for when Job may have faced his trials. (Or maybe not)
At any rate, in my opinion, I do believe that based on the above, Job was probably in about the first third of his life, or 70, when his trials began.
Notice how God placed His Signature on this with the number of years(if correct) are true.

If Job was 70 when the trials began or accomplished - and he lived for another 140 years = 210 years

That is three 7's = 70 + 70 + 70 = 210 = 3 which is the Number of Elohim
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
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#6
When getting older we can get more wisdom except the fact we have shorter lives compared to some men in the Bible. And many people who played an important part in the Bible were trained through years of hard life to get ready for having heavy responsibilities!
 

JLG

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Nov 4, 2021
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#7
Every time it seems more and more difficult for youngsters to understand old people and look for their long experience!

https://www.bethesdaseniorliving.com/blog/what-scripture-says-about-aging-in-grace-wisdom

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT AGING IN GRACE & WISDOM

« Many adults struggle with the aging process, but growing older has numerous benefits. Each day, you wake up with more knowledge than you had yesterday. Your wisdom helps you connect with fellow seniors, but it also makes you an inspiration for younger generations. As you progress through your golden years, cast your fears aside and remember what Scripture says about aging gracefully. »
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
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48
#8
it would be an interesting encounter to be able to sit down with Job and listens to him about his relationship with god and about all his experience of life. Just listening at first and then the questions would suddenly be numerous! Real human experience!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
88
48
#9
Notice how God placed His Signature on this with the number of years(if correct) are true.

If Job was 70 when the trials began or accomplished - and he lived for another 140 years = 210 years

That is three 7's = 70 + 70 + 70 = 210 = 3 which is the Number of Elohim
When job got into trouble, he was old meaning he was mature and with a lot of experience; he was able to survive and kept faithful to God. We have a lot to learn again and again especially when we are in trouble taking into account all the events he had to deal with.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#10
The three 'friends' of Job are todays Laeodician christians, the "name it and claim it" and "if you just had faith" bunch.
i have been to their churches and they preach that Job was in sin.
That his sin was fear - "the thing Job feared came upon him"

They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".

Those who preach the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture are also of the "three friends" of Job.

Today, many are suffering, some of it can be attributed to error/sin/ bad choices and yet many others are suffering as Job, where there is no 'blame' to be pinned upon them.
The suffering of the Brethren who are under assault by satan and his angels and this present evil world.

So when we could bear it no longer, we were willing to be left on our own in Athens.
We sent Timothy, our brother and fellow worker for God, in the gospel of Christ,
to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, so that none of you would be shaken by these trials.
For you know that we are destined for this.

Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution; and as you know, it has come to pass. For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter had somehow tempted you and caused our labor to be in vain.
1 Thessalonians 3:1-5
They say that Job sinned because of fear. What do they have to say about the fear of the Lord? Crickets, that's what. Job is a hero of mine. Job loved and revered the Lord and didn't want to hurt his Father's feelings. Yeshua says, "If you love Me, you'll obey me."
Taking pieces of the word here and there and making a "doctrine" out of it to suit one's purposes is harmful to others. I want no part of it.
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
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48
#11
They say that Job sinned because of fear. What do they have to say about the fear of the Lord? Crickets, that's what. Job is a hero of mine. Job loved and revered the Lord and didn't want to hurt his Father's feelings. Yeshua says, "If you love Me, you'll obey me."
Taking pieces of the word here and there and making a "doctrine" out of it to suit one's purposes is harmful to others. I want no part of it.
yes, you are right! I don't see any fear in Job's attitude. On the contrary, he was always a fighter and he answered to those who attacked him. fearless I would say except towards God. yes, only fear of God. Is that a sin?
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#12
yes, you are right! I don't see any fear in Job's attitude. On the contrary, he was always a fighter and he answered to those who attacked him. fearless I would say except towards God. yes, only fear of God. Is that a sin?
It's an old word, the meaning of which has changed in some contexts. I'd say that Job revered and respected God. Perhaps a reverential awe. I recognize it, as He has allowed me to have it, too! He is awesome beyond words! He loves me so much, I hate hurting His feelings. Even though I still do. And yet He never turns away from me! He's far better than we deserve!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
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#13
« He's far better than we deserve! »

or if i say it in other words, we must work hard to deserve HIS CONFIDENCE!
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,616
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#14
When job got into trouble, he was old meaning he was mature and with a lot of experience; he was able to survive and kept faithful to God. We have a lot to learn again and again especially when we are in trouble taking into account all the events he had to deal with.
And the beautiful wisdom that comes from those who have aged in Christ.

When Israel reached it's low point in spiritual adultery against God - the Lord said: "women and children will rule over you".

The complete opposite of wisdom.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,616
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113
#15
yes, you are right! I don't see any fear in Job's attitude. On the contrary, he was always a fighter and he answered to those who attacked him. fearless I would say except towards God. yes, only fear of God. Is that a sin?
No Dear Brother, "the Fear of God" is essential for us and for our protection.

Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
Isaiah 66
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#16
« He's far better than we deserve! »

or if i say it in other words, we must work hard to deserve HIS CONFIDENCE!
Speak for yourself...Yeshua's my shoe-in!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
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#17
Speak for yourself...Yeshua's my shoe-in!
Yes, Joshua is also a really good example when you think of two who had to stand against all the Jews! impressive! But when you speak of the bible you have to start somewhere!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
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#18
and "shoe-in" is a good expression too!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
88
48
#19
No Dear Brother, "the Fear of God" is essential for us and for our protection.

Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
Isaiah 66
Where is the house that you will build Me?
it reminds me of the Biblical passage dealing with the house built on rock or on sand!
 

JLG

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2021
2,624
88
48
#20
And the beautiful wisdom that comes from those who have aged in Christ.

When Israel reached it's low point in spiritual adultery against God - the Lord said: "women and children will rule over you".

The complete opposite of wisdom.
I like "beautiful wisdom"! there is nothing better when connected to humility! Great!
 
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