Abuse and the Chruch

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2

2Thewaters

Guest
#81
Jesus was abused. I m glad he didn't divorce us
Our way s not the way of the world

If a woman is in danger, she can separate by consent but she may not be divorced.

That is what God says.

Christians are always abused.
They are fired, demoted, talked about and alandered. that is our way of life
If the wife had love she would give back love and maybe save the spouse

Divorce is not an optin for a christian.
 
T

tucksma

Guest
#82
And our churches need to be leaders, rather than hiding behind the double screens of male hierarchy and the lie that "God hates divorce." No, God hates abusive husbands, and they will be judged for it one day, and the churches and pastors who allowed it to continue in their flocks will also be held accountable!
I agree that God hates these men, but God also hates divorce. It's a lie to God. You make an oath to be with a man, and then broke it. I'm not saying it isn't needed in some situations, but God hates both.
 
T

tripsin

Guest
#83
I believe spousal abuse is rampant in conservative churches! I have worked with an abuse group, and the majority of women who seek help are Christian women. I believe this is because of the resurgence of patriarchal dominance, which is not only out of place in our culture, but based on the worst Biblical exegetical of 2 verses!

i have argued again and again that Gal. 3:28 should be the Biblical start of relationships. Headship is taken out of context of a passage in Ephesians 5 which is written about the headship of Christ, and the startling instructions in Greek and Roman cultures for a husband to love his wife. This was radical in the 1st century, and it seems to be radical in conservative churches.

I was reading a book today called, "I am Malala." It is about the 12 year old girl in Pakistan who this book was shot in the face by the Taliban for wanting to go to school. Her father was a teacher and encouraged her to learn. But the conservative Muslims, who interpreted the Qur'an to mean only men were worthwhile, began to push their way into the towns and villages esp. after 9/11 and enforce their brand of patriarchy, that women and girls were less than men.

This book reminds me so much of what I see happening in Christian churches today it both scared and outraged me!!! We are all God's children and Christ is our head. Only Christ has been given all authority, and we need to obey God rather then men. Too many women have been forced to squander God's gifts, because of arrogant and haughty men, who want women barefoot and pregnant, just like the Taliban.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely! This is why abuse is rampant in the church. Men that have claimed this so-called "headship" have become "heady" with power. They are corrupting the very foundation of living together as children of the King.

As as for divorce, no woman has to live in fear of mental or physical abuse. I dare any man to live in a house with a bigger, stronger and more dominate person and stay when the abuse occurs regularly. Women need to leave such abusers, and have a restored life, free of the terror of abuse!

And our churches need to be leaders, rather than hiding behind the double screens of male hierarchy and the lie that "God hates divorce." No, God hates abusive husbands, and they will be judged for it one day, and the churches and pastors who allowed it to continue in their flocks will also be held accountable!

(P.S. I would be happy to go over the Greek, history and culture of the Ephesians and Corinthians one more time for the newcomers!)
Very well said. Thank you.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#84
No need to go over any culture

Jesus told us this

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

You know, in Revelation
the HARLOT churches are going to be punished.
Harlot means adultery

the churches that oyou can divorce for other reasons will be punished.
 
T

tucksma

Guest
#85
Should the woman forgive the man if he isn't loving her?



The 'goal' is to express the nature of God instead of expressing our own which nature is a fallen one.



The whole issue is, actually, mutual respect. But too many men read the verses and think that the wife has to 'mind' them as if they were a little kid. If they think that, then they are not respecting her. Of course there are women who are head strong and do not respect their husband's wishes. Rebellion on the woman's part; abuse on the man's part, neither are good for the marriage.
If he isn't loving yes but she should try to fix the problem. Does Jesus not forgive us when we don't express our love to him?

How does one express God's nature? Be sinless and follow his word perfectly. Is that possible? well no but we still should attempt to do it. God's word tells us to be submissive to God, and women to men. It also says the man should love her! Men fail at that often. Does it grant the women to then fail as well? no!

I agree the issue is mutual respect and agree men take the concept of submissiveness VERY wrong, but that doesn't permit a women to then not be submissive. Two wrongs do not make a right, they make two wrongs. Just like a women not being submissive does not permit a man to then be abusive.
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
#86
No, God hates abusive husbands, and they will be judged for it one day, and the churches and pastors who allowed it to continue in their flocks will also be held accountable!

(P.S. I would be happy to go over the Greek, history and culture of the Ephesians and Corinthians one more time for the newcomers!)
What does he hate about wives? Again, I try to bring parity into this. It has been reported that men that are abused by their wives are too ashamed to report it. Dysfunction in the marriage can and does go both ways. Look at Juanita Bynum. She said that she has been in 2 abusive relationships and I'm supposed to believe that she is guiltless? (yes, I believe there are some women out there who push men to the point of laying hands on them...it's a lot of video out there). To reiterate, dysfunction is found in both men and women. The only reason I'm saying that is because your post only comes from one point of view instead of an objective manner.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#87
No need to go over any culture

Jesus told us this

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

You know, in Revelation
the HARLOT churches are going to be punished.
Harlot means adultery

the churches that oyou can divorce for other reasons will be punished.
Just remember God will hold you to the same standards that you hold others to. Do you really want to continue withholding grace?
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#88
I will not drink of the wine of fornication (you can divorce and remarry)
that Babylon sells to the world.

Jesus has christians that will follow the Bible
Thoe that are not teaching the word of God, are in error.

Those that say you can divorce for other reasons, will be guilty of the blood of all the men and women that did get divorced by teir recommendation.

Fearfull is the punishment of all those who have advised others to get divorced.

Jesus brought that to my mind to give you your last warning.

Grace is the holy spirit word of God dwelling within you
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
0
#89
I agree the issue is mutual respect and agree men take the concept of submissiveness VERY wrong, but that doesn't permit a women to then not be submissive. Two wrongs do not make a right, they make two wrongs. Just like a women not being submissive does not permit a man to then be abusive.
SUBMISSION TO ABUSE IS NEVER THE ANSWER, THAT JUST FEEDS THE BEAST.
 
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tucksma

Guest
#90
Just remember God will hold you to the same standards that you hold others to. Do you really want to continue withholding grace?
I do agree with that, that's why I am saying it is needed in some cases. It isn't ever "right" though. Do you really see Jesus saying "it is Good for you to get a divorce?" No he'll say you must because of the hardness in his/her heart. It's not good, but needed.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#91
Grace is given to those who obey

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the holy ghost,
whom God hath given to them that obey him.


The word of God says
Do not divorce


show me from the Bible where I am wrong.

When youdo not listen to the word of God there is no more sacrifice for your sins.
 
T

tripsin

Guest
#92
Oh Tripsin, to say that knowing we can go to Christ for forgiveness, to know how Christ was planned from the beginning, to know what Christ did for us, is to say that learning about the "law" or how God shows us to achieve the best for us, if only "justified by law" is taking beauty and only seeing dross!! Knowing Christ, worshiping our Savior, going to Christ for forgiveness, does not mean we must not know all of the principles that God gives us in law!! When you wipe all that out with your "justified by law" idea, you are missing so much of Christ. Of COURSE we are not justified by law, that is a man idea and not ever in scripture.
I'm sorry I'm missing your point. There are only two ways to live: by the law or by the Spirit. If you live by the law, you have to keep all the laws, rules and regulations. If you live by the Spirit, we grow in spirit - in the Lord, and our minds are automatically renewed to do what is right.

Are we on the same page here?:)
 
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tucksma

Guest
#93
SUBMISSION TO ABUSE IS NEVER THE ANSWER, THAT JUST FEEDS THE BEAST.
This is where the idea of divorce being needed comes in. The women should continue being submissive until this point (whatever it may be, she must come to that conclusion on her own) and then divorce because of the hardness in the man's heart. Up to that point though she should be submissive, constantly trying to change his ways. If it doesn't happen, in time divorce will be needed, but the wrongness of abuse doesn't grant a women going against the bible herself.
 
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2

2Thewaters

Guest
#94
Jesus said never divorce.
You may do what you want, but be assured the blood of all those who are told to divorce will be on them.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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#95
Jesus said never divorce.
You may do what you want, but be assured the blood of all those who are told to divorce will be on them.
He said he hates it. He didn't say don't do it.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#96
It was an attempt at levity. I have a macabre sense of humor and would never actually condone violence.
Anybody that has firsthand experience with spouse abuse knows it's no laughing matter.

Some things that's been said about the conservative church is true. And if it's happening there, how much more the liberal church?
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
#97
Jesus said never divorce.
You may do what you want, but be assured the blood of all those who are told to divorce will be on them.
Yeah...that's not right....

Jesus specifically gave sexual immorality as a grounds of divorce.
 
T

tucksma

Guest
#98
He said he hates it. He didn't say don't do it.
same time if Jesus hates it does it mean you should do it? Again I stick to what I have been saying, but it is a thought.
 
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tripsin

Guest
#99
If he isn't loving yes but she should try to fix the problem.
Oh, now I get it. It's her fault. "Have you eaten Adam?" "The woman YOU gave me, she did it." Gen. 3:11-12.:D

Does Jesus not forgive us when we don't express our love to him?
We have been forgiven all sins - past, present, and future. He knows we love Him because we have accepted Him as our Savior. We express that love by loving God and our neighbor.

How does one express God's nature? Be sinless and follow his word perfectly. Is that possible? well no but we still should attempt to do it. God's word tells us to be submissive to God, and women to men. It also says the man should love her! Men fail at that often. Does it grant the women to then fail as well? no!

I agree the issue is mutual respect and agree men take the concept of submissiveness VERY wrong, but that doesn't permit a women to then not be submissive. Two wrongs do not make a right, they make two wrongs. Just like a women not being submissive does not permit a man to then be abusive.
Well, hopefully you come to an enlightened understanding of God's word on the issue before you get married.:eek:
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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Anybody that has firsthand experience with spouse abuse knows it's no laughing matter.

Some things that's been said about the conservative church is true. And if it's happening there, how much more the liberal church?
I do have firsthand experience with abuse provided by the Baptist preacher I was married to. He abused me and our son during our 10 year marriage.

The levity was directed at a comment that the 17-year-old made about my hypothetical shooting of my ex-husband for breaking and entering. It was hyperbolic example I was making about how divorce does provide some protection. The kid said it would be premeditated murder, and I asked how I could premeditate a crime that I didn't instigate.

I was not laughing at abuse. John Piper did, and that offended me. I discuss that in another thread.