Acts 13: 48 does not support Calvinism

[pottersclay]

I think the thought behind Calvinism is in err. It's not that God favored others over others but being God he knows the end from the beginning.
The promise is for all I believe but there is only one way to enter ....through Christ alone.
If some were only predestined to become children of God and God created them in that favor how could we boast about the transforming wonder power of God if they were preprogrammed anyway.
How could Christ be called a savior if they were destined to be saved anyways? Or a Redeemer if you were destined to be redeemed anyways?
Maybe my thinking is wrong but scripture tells us we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. The old has past away dead, buried, not reformed, modified, or converted.
I will leave it there for now.😐😐😐

 

[Nehemiah6]

The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, is not a "devout" man and, cannot have a "heart response" toward anything of a spiritual nature, because he cannot discern spiritual things. until he is born of the Holy Spirit.

Now your are taking another Scripture out of context and applying it to sinners who respond to the Gospel.

The "spiritual things" mentioned by Paul are also "the deep things of God" mentioned by Paul in the same context (v 10 -- for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God). They are also called "the wisdom of God" (v 7).

But the plainness of the Gospel is not "the deep things of God". It is a simple message that since all men are sinners, Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Therefore God commands all men to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. And during the preaching, hearing, or reading of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces the unsaved to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

In His divine foreknowledge, God already knows who will believe, hence they are appointed to, or ordained to, receive eternal life. God does NOT elect some for salvation and others for damnation. That is a damnable doctrine.

 

[AxeElf]

How could Christ be called a savior if they were destined to be saved anyways? Or a Redeemer if you were destined to be redeemed anyways?

Because it's only by virtue of Christ that they could be destined to be saved. You might as well ask, "Why do we need water if we were destined to go swimming anyway?"

 

[AxeElf]

God does NOT elect some for salvation and others for damnation. That is a damnable doctrine.

And it's straight out of that damnable tome from hell called "the bible":

"So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?" --Romans 9:18-21 (Amplified Bible)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I notice that whenever Calvinists quote Eph 1: 4 they like to leave out the two most important words of the verse: "in Him". We are chosen in Him and He is the One chosen before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1: 19-20, "but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."

How many times is "in Him" or a variant used in Ephesians 1: 3-13? 10 times. That's one time for almost every single verse. That means it is very important to understanding the passage properly.

Eph 1: 3, "in Christ"
Eph 1: 4, "in Him"
Eph 1: 5, "by Jesus Christ"
Eph 1: 6, "in the Beloved"
Eph 1: 7, "in Him"
Eph 1: 10, "in Christ"
Eph 1: 10, "in Him"
Eph 1: 11, "in Him"
Eph 1: 12, "in Christ"
Eph 1: 13, "in Him"

The only idea Paul has of salvation is a corporate salvation. You are either part of His body or you are not saved.

When does the "us" of Eph 1: 4 get chosen? During our lives. Based on a heart response to God. Cornelius is a good example of this along with Lydia, David and many others throughout the Bible who were already worshipers of God when they were chosen.



Can you tell me how Cornelius was born of the Spirit before he was saved?

I didn't say that Cornelius was born of the Spirit before he was saved eternally. I said before he met Paul. Cornelius was saved, (Greek interpretation of saved is "delivered" from a lack of knowledge of what Jesus has accomplished for him by Paul's preaching. Cornelius was saved eternally the same way that all of God's elect people were, and that was by Christ's death on the cross. John 6 tells us that Christ died only for those that God gave him and Jesus said that all that he died for, he would raise up at the last day, without the loss of even one. All of those he died for have eternal life and all of those he did not die for will have eternal hell. That is why, when he was on the cross, he said "it is finished". Jesus paid the price for the adoption of those that God choose which God predetermined in Eph 1.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?" --Romans 9:18-21 (Amplified Bible)

Another attempt at misapplying Scripture to justify false doctrine.

So how about this from Romans 11? For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Gentiles as a nation of people used to be without God because they did not enter the covenant with God that required the purification works of the law, but now were appointed to have eternal life too, not just the Jews though a new covenant.
Not every Gentile, not all Gentiles, of course, but now Gentiles could have eternal life too. The entire Gentiles who were there who heard that Gentiles were now appointed to have eternal life too, they were glad, and all the Gentiles that were there, they believed.

The scripture says when the GENTILES heard this they began rejoicing. Why do you think they were rejoicing? The Gentiles were just told that they could now have a relationship with God; they could now have eternal life. The Gentiles used to be excluded, and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

 

[pottersclay]

Because it's only by virtue of Christ that they could be destined to be saved. You might as well ask, "Why do we need water if we were destined to go swimming anyway?"

Then answer me this what righteous judgement is it to one that was never chosen to be saved??

 

[garee]

Acts 13: 48, "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

This verse is one of the strongest verses the Calvinist has in support of their position. I believe in free-will and think the doctrine of Calvinism is not supported by the Scriptures.

All Christians are considered of the freewoman, free-will thinkers .To do the will of the father is the kind of food that free's us to serve a God who works in the creature, with the creature to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. A Christians free-will is to do the will of another, not be subject to do the will of the father of lies.

We are informed in Job 23 that God is of one mind and always does what so ever his soul pleases. For he performs that which he apoints to us. If he has begun the good work in us he promises us he will finish it till the end.

The purpose of this post is to give my brothers and sisters a good defense against the Calvinist interpretation of Acts 13: 48

. I have noticed in many debates that the Calvinist turns to this verse and uses it against the Arminian/Free-Willer and the Arminian usually does not have a good response. Here would be my response:

3 chapters before in Acts 10 & 11 we read about the story of Cornelius. In Acts 10: 2 we are told that Cornelius "was a devout man, who feared God always and gave to the poor". Later in the chapter we hear from Peter in Acts 10: 34-35, when talking about Cornelius, he says, "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is ACCEPTED by Him."

Whoever fears Him and works righteousness out as a free gift and not work to gain it is already ACCEPTED by Him." No gift no gain.

That word "accepted" is the same as being appointed to eternal life.

Because Cornelius chose of his own free will to fear God and serve Him, God appointed Him to eternal life. This is why it says that Cornelius' prayers had come up as a memorial before God in Acts 10: 4. And an angel was sent to him telling him to send for Peter so that he could hear words by which he and his household would be saved.

That word "accepted" is the same as being appointed to eternal life because Christ again works in us with us to perform that which appointed to us.. Therefore Cornelius did the will of God as God gave him the strength to perform it.

So in the same book, by the same author, just 3 chapters before, we are given a clear example from the Bible how "appointing to eternal life works".

When the Calvinist reads Acts 13: 48 he inserts the words in parenthesis "appointed to eternal life (before the foundation of the world) believed". The words "before the foundation of the world" are obviously not in that verse but Calvinists are quite successful in getting people to think that they are.

God does not arbitrarily choose people before the foundation of the world. We see from the example of Cornelius that God chooses people based on their heart response to him.

We see from the example of Cornelius that God chooses people based on their heart response to him as he works to make it soft esteeming the words of his mouth more than our necessary food. .

Calvin is dead and therefore cannot defend everything men accuse him of. Christ is our Champion.

Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Job23:12-14

It would appear the Job 23 reference and the Philippians 2 reference build on the same free -will principle. Freely with no cost on our behalf God gives, freely we have received. As in; "let there be" and there was a new creation and God saw it is good. .

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:12-15

 

[garee]

Then answer me this what righteous judgement is it to one that was never chosen to be saved??

That is where it depends on how are person understands what happens once they do pass from this realm under the Sun.
this creation. Annihilation up in smoke, or eternal suffering.

The righteous judgement in Adam is all die. And in Christ according to His mercy as many as the father has given will live. The righteous judgement for those born again of a new Spirit is in respect to the mercy of God.

Those who do not have the righteous judgement in respect to the mercy of God will never rise to new spirt life and not receive a new body forever and ever more as another form of mercy. Judgement without mercy will be shown to everyone who does not have mercy and that includes God who is subject to His own laws.

God is a God of mercy . He would not have mercy on some and righteous judgement without mercy for others.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Now your are taking another Scripture out of context and applying it to sinners who respond to the Gospel.

The "spiritual things" mentioned by Paul are also "the deep things of God" mentioned by Paul in the same context (v 10 -- for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God). They are also called "the wisdom of God" (v 7).

But the plainness of the Gospel is not "the deep things of God". It is a simple message that since all men are sinners, Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Therefore God commands all men to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. And during the preaching, hearing, or reading of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces the unsaved to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

In His divine foreknowledge, God already knows who will believe, hence they are appointed to, or ordained to, receive eternal life. God does NOT elect some for salvation and others for damnation. That is a damnable doctrine.

How do you interpret Psalms 53:2-3 if you think that God knew some, by his foreknowledge, would believe? It seems to me that his foreknowledge saw that no one would seek him, no, not one. I believe that you are misinterpreting 1 Cor 2:14. The natural man, until he has been born of the Holy Spirit cannot discern neither the deep spiritual things and he also cannot discern the shallow spiritual things. Eph 2 says that he is spiritually DEAD until God puts a new heart (Eze 36:26) within him.

 

[garee]

How do you interpret Psalms 53:2-3 if you think that God knew some, by his foreknowledge, would believe? It seems to me that his foreknowledge saw that no one would seek him, no, not one. I believe that you are misinterpreting 1 Cor 2:14. The natural man, until he has been born of the Holy Spirit cannot discern neither the deep spiritual things and he also cannot discern the shallow spiritual things. Eph 2 says that he is spiritually DEAD until God puts a new heart (Eze 36:26) within him.

Amen, Dead as in no faith (line of communication) . Romans 2 informs us .What if some do not beleive (no faith) .Will there lack of any faith make the faith of Christ, that works in the hearts of those who do believe without effect?

If that was the case How could God prove who he is without all things written in the law and the prophets. He then informs us in Romans no man of his own volition can seek after Him (impossible) in order to having any understanding pertaining to Him . No man can come unless the father draws them by a work of His faith.

 

[garee]

Another attempt at misapplying Scripture to justify false doctrine.

So how about this from Romans 11? For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

That's one of those verses that confirms natural man has no faith. (none) unbelief

Faith coming from Christ is given that he might have mercy. No faith that comes from hearing Him not seen, no mercy . Know the faith of God know his mercy and grace.

 

[PS]

I think the thought behind Calvinism is in err. It's not that God favored others over others but being God he knows the end from the beginning.
The promise is for all I believe but there is only one way to enter ....through Christ alone.
If some were only predestined to become children of God and God created them in that favor how could we boast about the transforming wonder power of God if they were preprogrammed anyway.
How could Christ be called a savior if they were destined to be saved anyways? Or a Redeemer if you were destined to be redeemed anyways?
Maybe my thinking is wrong but scripture tells us we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. The old has past away dead, buried, not reformed, modified, or converted.
I will leave it there for now.😐😐😐

All believers are ordained/designated/appointed to eternal life. The majority of Jews did not believe and therefore will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, the point being, it is OUR faith that ordains us to eternal life. Jesus came to draw ALL men unto Him (John 12:32) and it is God's will that ALL people will be ordained to eternal life, but those who do not believe, rule themselves out, and although God knows from before the foundation of the earth, who will reject Him and who will receive Him it is the individual themselves who make that choice, not God.

Jesus gave his life so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. It is OUR choice and ours alone.

 

[garee]

Jesus gave his life so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. It is OUR choice and ours alone.

It is OUR choice and ours alone that comes from what or who? The imaginations of our own heart?

I would think our first love "hearing God" gives us the faith to believe him previously having none.. It would do the first work of faith in us. Having it not of our own self lest and man boast in false pride. As a free gift you can then offer your belief of thanks towards Him. No faith coming from hearing Him, no power to exercise your faith towards him . It works two ways. First things first.
.

 

[PS]

It is OUR choice and ours alone that comes from what or who? The imaginations of our own heart?

I would think our first love "hearing God" gives us the faith to believe him previously having none.. It would do the first work of faith in us. Having it not of our own self lest and man boast in false pride. As a free gift you can then offer your belief of thanks towards Him. No faith coming from hearing Him, no power to exercise your faith towards him . It works two ways. First things first.
.

God came into the world first, either through the prophets or by Jesus Christ, to draw all people unto Him. After that the choice is ours.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (Joh 3:16-18 ESV)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

All believers are ordained/designated/appointed to eternal life. The majority of Jews did not believe and therefore will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, the point being, it is OUR faith that ordains us to eternal life. Jesus came to draw ALL men unto Him (John 12:32) and it is God's will that ALL people will be ordained to eternal life, but those who do not believe, rule themselves out, and although God knows from before the foundation of the earth, who will reject Him and who will receive Him it is the individual themselves who make that choice, not God.

Jesus gave his life so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. It is OUR choice and ours alone.

Many people have been misinformed about what god saw by his foreknowledge. Psalms 53:2-3: God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. That is why God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and gave them to Christ to be a sacrifice to God for their sins. Eph 1. Jesus's death on the cross was a sacrifice to God for God's acceptance, and not to man for man's acceptance. God has given man a free will as to how man wants to live his life here on earth, but, man's eternal salvation is made by God's sovereign grace, and not man's choice.

 

[Chester]

God's sovereignty--and free will is also logically inconsistent with God's omniscience (if God is omniscient, we cannot have free will to do anything other than that which God knows we will do--otherwise, we could make a fool out of God).

Here is one of the clear fallacies of Calvinistic thinking: to say that "the sovereignty of God cancels out the free will of man."

To make such a statement is actually limiting God and saying he cannot make man with a completely free will and yet perfectly know the future.

 

[AxeElf]

Here is one of the clear fallacies of Calvinistic thinking: to say that "the sovereignty of God cancels out the free will of man."

To make such a statement is actually limiting God and saying he cannot make man with a completely free will and yet perfectly know the future.

It's not me that limits God; rather it is the limits of meaning and logic that limit God.

Being omnipotent does not mean He can do anything whatsoever. Omnipotence means, literally, "all power." God can do anything that can be done with power. But there are some things that cannot be done with ANY amount of power, such as creating a one-sided coin, or producing a married bachelor.

Likewise, it is logically inconsistent for man to have free will and for God to be omniscient in the same universe.

If God knows you are going to Chicago tomorrow, you cannot do otherwise. For you to be free to change your mind and go to New York instead, you would make a fool of God and destroy His omniscience. For you to NOT to be free to change your mind and go to New York instead argues against the literal meaning of free will.

So many Christians readily assert that "God is in control of everything!" and then turn right around in pride and add, "except ME!"

No, time and space are but two aspects of the same thing (spacetime); God structured every moment of time just as carefully as He crafted every millimeter of space in His creation. He knows the end from the beginning because existence is like a movie, playing out as it was intended to play out from beginning to end--but we are no more free to do other than that which God has created us to do than the characters in a movie are free to do something other than that which we know they will do (if we've seen the movie before, anyway). If we WERE free to do other than that which God knows we will do, then God could not be omniscient, because there would always be some uncertainty as to what we were going to do until we actually did it.

And it's no good saying that we made a free choice, but God was merely able to see into the future and know what choice we made. Nope, because once that knowledge is set, then we are STILL not free to do anything other than that which God knows we will do--and that is not a free choice. Choosing to stay in a locked room is not a free choice.

If you need further scriptural evidence against the concept of free will, see posts #7 and #8 in this thread.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Here is one of the clear fallacies of Calvinistic thinking: to say that "the sovereignty of God cancels out the free will of man."

To make such a statement is actually limiting God and saying he cannot make man with a completely free will and yet perfectly know the future.

Most people categorize me as being a Calvinist, but I have never studied his writings. I am not sure how he believes, but I do believe that God gave man a free will in choosing how he wants to live his life here on earth, but I believe that man's eternal salvation is by God's sovereign will, without the choice of man. We have several scriptures where God tells us to choose certain things. I do believe that our choices that we make here on earth is motivated either by the flesh or the Spirit. That is how I interpret the scriptures.