Acts 15 proves that gentiles have never been under the law of Moses

[Kefa54]

The Gentiles were never placed under Mosaic Law.

The Law of Moses was given only to the Israelite's.

But what about the “Patriarchal Law?”... https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=894

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Gentiles were never placed under Mosaic Law.

The Law of Moses was given only to the Israelite's.

But what about the “Patriarchal Law?”... https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=894

Good find. I don't like the name, but that law is the law that all of mankind has been under from Adam until now.

Therefore in all things, whatever you want that people should do to you, thus also you do to them. For this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12​

 

[Kefa54]

The explanation of Patriarchal Law comes from Genesis 2..... Genesis 2 - Creation Completed; Adam in the Garden of Eden

 

[Kefa54]

Can we agree that the Mosaic Law was given to the Israelite's. Gods chosen people. That it was not given to the Gentiles.

Kefa

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Acts 15:12

And the whole group became silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. Acts 15:12​

Paul's and Barnabas' testimony of the signs and wonders that GOD did among people who believed, but did not observe (follow/keep) the law of Moses, witnessed that GOD approved of their faith in Christ without works of law.

 

[Brother_Don]

2 Samuel 22:45 Strangers shall submit themselves to me: as soon as they hear, they shall be obedient to me. When i see the Word speak of strangers, i see the strangers as gentiles.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Acts 15:13

And after they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Men and brothers, listen to me! Acts 15:13​

James was the head of the church in Jerusalem, and Jesus' natural brother.

 

[Least]

I hope that you will continue sharing the verses in this chapter. Acts 15 is an awesome chapter all on its own.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Acts 15:14-18

Simeon [Peter] has described how God first concerned himself to take from among the Gentiles a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

‘After these things I will return and build up again the tabernacle of David that has fallen, and the parts of it that had been torn down I will build up again and will restore it, so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’ Acts 15:14-18​

James quoted from Amos 9:11-12 in validation of Paul's experiences with the gentiles. If you read Amos 9:11-12 in your bible it will be different from what James quoted. That is because he quoted from the Septuagint (or a pre-Masoretic Hebrew text), which is the bible that the apostles used. This is how it reads in the Septuagint; notice how more similar it is to James' quote.

In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and will rebuild the ruins of it, and will set up the parts thereof that have been broken down, and will build it up as in the ancient days: that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, saith the Lord who does all these things. ​ Amos 9:11-12​

 

[DP]

Can we agree that the Mosaic Law was given to the Israelite's. Gods chosen people. That it was not given to the Gentiles.

Kefa

Definitely.

As long as we don't try to say that old covenant included all of God's laws, because it did not, which is why the Apostles in Acts 15 gave a minimum of things Gentiles were... to keep (abstaining from idols, fornication, eating/drinking of blood, from strangled meats).

Do you think they automatically meant for Gentiles to abstain from murder, rape, stealing and lying, etc., also? I think that goes without them having to say it, that being common sense.

 

[Kaycie]

Yes, it does prove that.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Definitely.

As long as we don't try to say that old covenant included all of God's laws, because it did not, which is why the Apostles in Acts 15 gave a minimum of things Gentiles were... to keep (abstaining from idols, fornication, eating/drinking of blood, from strangled meats).

Do you think they automatically meant for Gentiles to abstain from murder, rape, stealing and lying, etc., also? I think that goes without them having to say it, that being common sense.

What a bunch of hooey! Everything that was written in the law of Moses was to be kept under that covenant. The only reason that you are saying this is because Acts 15 supports salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. The claim by those believer's of the Pharisee group were teaching that Gentile believer's in Christ must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses, the whole law, which includes all 600 plus of them. And Peter's answer to this was:

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The only reason that you are saying that the old covenant did include the whole law is to circumvent the proof that we are saved by grace though faith, because that is what this scripture supports. It is a common tactic to circumvent and distort the scriptures that give proof, regardless of what the topic is.

Do you think they automatically meant for Gentiles to abstain from murder, rape, stealing and lying, etc., also? I think that goes without them having to say it, that being common sense.

If we are having faith in Christ and are led by the Spirit, we are not going to be doing the above.

 

[Yet]

ROMANS concludes that All are under the condemnation of the law and the GUILT OF THE WHOLE WORLD!

The moral laws for sure. Does get a bit sticky. Laws of conscience. Uh oh! Am I opening a can of worms? Lol!

 

[Least]

Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Acts 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Quoting Amos 9: 11-12...exactly as it is written.

Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
Amos 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

That's from my bible...what exactly is different in what Amos says as to what was quoted?
Saying that it's different from what's written in my bible is confusing, and brings doubt about what is written.

I posted it exactly.

Here are the verses directly from the Septuagint:


11In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and will rebuild the ruins of it, and will set up the parts thereof that have been broken down, and will build it up as in the ancient days:
12that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, saith the Lord who does all these things.
13Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when the harvest shall overtake the vintage, and the grapes shall ripen at seedtime; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall be planted.

 

[Least]

Interestingly...the bible hubs that tie scriptures together also list Isaiah 58 in reference to the above verses in Acts 15:

11And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
12And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.


There are all kinds of references throughout the word that tie with this.

 

[DP]

What a bunch of hooey! Everything that was written in the law of Moses was to be kept under that covenant. The only reason that you are saying this is because Acts 15 supports salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. The claim by those believer's of the Pharisee group were teaching that Gentile believer's in Christ must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses, the whole law, which includes all 600 plus of them. And Peter's answer to this was:

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The only reason that you are saying that the old covenant did include the whole law is to circumvent the proof that we are saved by grace though faith, because that is what this scripture supports. It is a common tactic to circumvent and distort the scriptures that give proof, regardless of what the topic is.



If we are having faith in Christ and are led by the Spirit, we are not going to be doing the above.

Your own thoughts mislead you brother. I have never... substitued God's law in place of His Grace by Faith on His Son's Blood shed upon the cross. I am not... Jewish. I am a Protestant Christian.

The matter I keep bringing up is about HEALTH OF THE BODY involving God's food laws, not Salvation by the law.

I well know what Judaizers were doing per Acts 15 with trying to get the Gentiles to keep their Jewish traditions. Yet God gave the commandment to Noah to not eat the blood PRIOR... to the time of Moses (see Gen.9). And today we know that is a health issue.

Acts 15:19-20
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
KJV

All of those things in that verse 20 were also... written in God's laws. Not eating things strangled, nor the blood, specifically are about God's health laws.

So, are you now saying the Apostles DID NOT give that to Gentile believers to keep??? A simple yes or no would suffice, or are we to think that you believe Gentile believers can do those things if they want??

 

[Brother_Don]

have went over and over Acts 15, and from what i see it disclaims the title of the thread.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Acts 15:19

Therefore I conclude we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who turn to God, Acts 15:19​

James rendered his decision that the gentile believers should not be harassed any longer by the pharisees unwarranted demand that they be circumcised and follow the law of Moses.

Trouble
G3926 παρενοχλέω parenochleo (par-en-okh-leh'-o) v.
1. to harass further

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Acts 15:20

but we should write a letter to them to abstain from the pollution of idols and from fornication and from what has been strangled and from blood. Acts 15:20​

Pollution of idols is later clarified in verse 29 to be food offered to idols. For Christians, unless the conscience is weak, eating food offered to idols is not sin. Neither is eating blood, nor strangled animals with their blood still in them. The only thing mentioned that is sin was fornication.

But if someone says to you, “This is offered to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of that one who informed you and the conscience. Now I am not speaking about your own conscience, but the conscience of the other person. For why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? Therefore, whether you eat or you drink or whatever you do, do all things for the glory of God. 1 Corinthians 10:28-31​

The four items that James mentioned were an incipient form of what are now called the Noahide Laws, which did not reach a finalized form until the Talmud was written several centuries after Christ. The Jews believed that all gentiles were governed by these laws, and not the law of Moses. They never expected nor demanded that gentiles become circumcised and be subject to the law of Moses.

Why James issued this particular edict will be covered next.

 

[DP]

I think the evidence in today's society is very clear that not only do many unbelieving refuse to recognize how God's laws still govern this world, but many believers also think the same.

I mean, if those believers think that no matter what we in Christ do, we will never lose His promise of Salvation, then why would they want to examine themselves according to God's Word to see if they're still sinning or not and need to repent?

Some have become so duped by false prophets that they refuse... to recognize they still commit sin, and even say they sin no more since believing on Jesus.

Murderers, rapists, and thieves are let loose back on the streets, lying has become a respectable art, mercy is for the weak, acting bad is cool, prison thugs are honored, rebellion and revolution are accepted by the 'in crowd', good is bad and bad is good, gay preachers in the Church are now acceptable, but yeah... none of that has anything to do with sin against God's laws, right? because God's laws don't exist anymore, right?