Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit
- Thread starter CS1
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
i see hs baptism in rom 6, 1 cor 12, Titus 3: 5 (washing of regeneration) i see HS as God washing us and making us clean
I see the anointing if the spirit as the act if the HS entering he believer and making a home with him, out of his the believer is empowered with gifts, chastened, and even helped to pray,
as the washing and anointing if the preist in the law (a forshadow) i see the baptism and anointing (the fulfilment of the type) as two different events.
I see the anointing if the spirit as the act if the HS entering he believer and making a home with him, out of his the believer is empowered with gifts, chastened, and even helped to pray,
as the washing and anointing if the preist in the law (a forshadow) i see the baptism and anointing (the fulfilment of the type) as two different events.
well respectfully the Baptisim of the Holy Spirt = clothing with for ability to do a work God has called you to do. In this case witness Acts 1:8.
water Baptism/baptized = immersing into context is water as Rom 6.
[FONT="]6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[/FONT]
This is speaking of the Simbolicially of water baptsim
water Baptism/baptized = immersing into context is water as Rom 6.
[FONT="]6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[/FONT]
This is speaking of the Simbolicially of water baptsim
Before Jesus not turned to heaven (what we celebrate today) The Holy Spirit could not come. So the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost into the live of beleivers we call baptism with the Holy Spirit, not only for empowerment, but also for to be adopted in Gods family. Without the Holy Spirit in our Live we are no members of Gods family. We are not saved! Born again and recieve the Holy Spirit is on event.
If it would be so that the baptism with the Holy Spirit which the pentecostal and charismatic movement teaches, then we must say that befor 1900 we find no empowered believers which preaches the gospel. Then we must say that we can only find empowered believers in the charismatic and pentecostals movements.
Then I aske myself, where are the 600 000 000 million of pentecostal and charismatic empowered believers? Which doing daily miracles and healings as the apostles did? Because they all claim to have the empowerment thrught the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the speaking in tongues.
We have to recognize that after the apostles went to the Lord, the miracles and healings stopped.
In churchhistorie God used of course healings and miracles till today no question, but not in the way he used during the apostolic time. In first line was the preaching of the gospel to the unbelievers/gentiles. and the signs where to proof that God is stroinger then the Idols. So it is far more important to prach the gospel, so that people can turn to christ then the gifts to do miracles. We find in the Gospels and acts that to see miracles of God did not turn people automatically to Christ. And we see today that people search help in occult believing systems and in visiting new age healers. Even believers doing so. In the meaning what helpes is good.
Every believer has received the Holy Spirit and can witnessing. For that he do not need to have supernaturell gifts.
If it would be so that the baptism with the Holy Spirit which the pentecostal and charismatic movement teaches, then we must say that befor 1900 we find no empowered believers which preaches the gospel. Then we must say that we can only find empowered believers in the charismatic and pentecostals movements.
Then I aske myself, where are the 600 000 000 million of pentecostal and charismatic empowered believers? Which doing daily miracles and healings as the apostles did? Because they all claim to have the empowerment thrught the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the speaking in tongues.
We have to recognize that after the apostles went to the Lord, the miracles and healings stopped.
In churchhistorie God used of course healings and miracles till today no question, but not in the way he used during the apostolic time. In first line was the preaching of the gospel to the unbelievers/gentiles. and the signs where to proof that God is stroinger then the Idols. So it is far more important to prach the gospel, so that people can turn to christ then the gifts to do miracles. We find in the Gospels and acts that to see miracles of God did not turn people automatically to Christ. And we see today that people search help in occult believing systems and in visiting new age healers. Even believers doing so. In the meaning what helpes is good.
Every believer has received the Holy Spirit and can witnessing. For that he do not need to have supernaturell gifts.
The Holy Spirt Never left., what could not happen was the empowerment Because Jesus had all Power. This was wittnessed in John gospel when Jesus was Baptized the Spirit remained on HIM. JOhn 20 :22 the disciples recived the Holy Spirit after Jesus Breathed on them and said recieve the Holy Spirit, are we to assume that They did not recieve the Holy Spirit for salvation in John 20:22 ? Then what was the reason Jesus said this to them?
E
I can not agree.
in Rom 6, It says we were baptized into something, (in this case, the death and burial of Christ) also we see the same thing on 1 cor 12. where we are baptized into Christ.
The problem is the interpreters did not interpret the word baptize, they transliterated it and made a new English word. We need to take the Greek definition not the English one.
I take romans 6 literally, and the only one who could baptise us into Christ or his death and burial is God himself (the hs) Which we are told in Colossions 2. Thats exactly what he did. the spiritual circumcision.
HS baptism is what spiritually cleanses us. We are not baptized into the HS, he baptized us into Christ, just as the children of Israel were baptized into moses.
What gives us power is the Anointing ministry of the spirit where he comes into us. and makes his home with us. just like he did Jesus
Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
2 Corinthians 1:21
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
in Rom 6, It says we were baptized into something, (in this case, the death and burial of Christ) also we see the same thing on 1 cor 12. where we are baptized into Christ.
The problem is the interpreters did not interpret the word baptize, they transliterated it and made a new English word. We need to take the Greek definition not the English one.
I take romans 6 literally, and the only one who could baptise us into Christ or his death and burial is God himself (the hs) Which we are told in Colossions 2. Thats exactly what he did. the spiritual circumcision.
HS baptism is what spiritually cleanses us. We are not baptized into the HS, he baptized us into Christ, just as the children of Israel were baptized into moses.
What gives us power is the Anointing ministry of the spirit where he comes into us. and makes his home with us. just like he did Jesus
Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
2 Corinthians 1:21
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
E
No I see two different things as two different things.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit washes us and makes us clean, as the HS baptises us into christ death and burial (rom 6) where our sins are washing away in the washing of the HS (titus 3: 5) and we are baptised into union with Christ, who is the head (1 cor 12)
baptism in water is an outward work of proclamation and an open testimony of ones faith. while teaching what God himself did for us.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit washes us and makes us clean, as the HS baptises us into christ death and burial (rom 6) where our sins are washing away in the washing of the HS (titus 3: 5) and we are baptised into union with Christ, who is the head (1 cor 12)
baptism in water is an outward work of proclamation and an open testimony of ones faith. while teaching what God himself did for us.
I am not shure about it. But please note that Thomas got it not. Maby an special act? But before Jesus did not sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, no person had the Holy Spirit living inside, as we have since pentecost. It makes no sense and is also not written that the Holy Spirit came in 2 events ( John 20, 22 to all apostles, except to Thomas and acts 2) Also it is not recordet that the apostles in John 20,22 speak in tongues after they received the Holy Spirit.
No sir , the bible says other wises. Thomas did get The Holy Spirit too because, Jesus came back and confronted Thomas and Thomas said one of the most theoloical Statements concerning the deity of Christ: " Thomas said " My Lord and my God John 20:28.
The Holy Spirt gave Thomas this understanding as 1cor 12:3 states "[FONT="]and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
No is saying the Holy Spirit came in two events. by that logic explain HOW the Holy Spirit departed from Samson? Then came on him again then departed, and came on him again. Same Spirit of God or the Spirit of the Lord = Holy Spirt. [/FONT]
Well, the Statement of Thomas is no Proof that he got the Holy Spirit. We know that Peter gave an Statement far before Jesus was crucified.(Matthew 16,16) Also the Demons knew that Jesus is the son of God. So these Statements are no proof that they had the Holy Spirit for to know this.
Then, from where you have that Samson ore the OT Prophets had constantly the Holy Spirit? Samson lost his power when the enemy cut his hair. What has this to do with the Holy Spirit?
Then, from where you have that Samson ore the OT Prophets had constantly the Holy Spirit? Samson lost his power when the enemy cut his hair. What has this to do with the Holy Spirit?
absalutely it is , the Holy Spirt able him to says and why would Jesus do for those HE did for earlier in the chapter and not do it for Thomas when HE came back ?. Yes Peter did give the statement Propheticly as was the comstum of the Spirit of GOd to do so in the Old Testament. This was very clear because not many verses after was admonshing Peter by saying satan get thee behind me. Read Samson again in Judges Samson did the expoltes because of the Spirit of the Lord . samson's hair not being cut, nor drinking , nor being with women was Obediance . Samson did not KNOW the SPirit of the Lord had departed from him. The HOly Spirit came on Samson but did not remain in Samson.
how did they do the work? did it not say HE Jesus gave them authority in His name ? when HE sent them out ? Did not the disciples testfy thaT DEMONS WERE SUBJECT YOU his NAME ?
Luke 10: 17-20
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
