Are we not saved the same as the apostles? Yes and no. We and the apostles are both saved by faith in God through Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. However there are things that happened with the apostles that are unique to them, the apostles were saved without having the indwelling Holy Spirit, they had the Spirit with them but not in them, yet they were saved. We on the other hand are not saved until we have received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Also, when the indwelling Spirit was first given(baptism of the Spirit) the apostles were given the gift of the ability to speak languages that they did not know, but languages that Jews from different parts of the country did know. This was a witness that God gave to the Jews scattered abroad that were in Jerusalem for Pentecost that this was of God.
Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit
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Acts is a toughie. You see many things happening in those days that don't happen today. Ppl raised from the dead. Look at Eutychus, Dorcas(Tabbitha) for instance. None of us have the ability to raise the dead to life.
Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus. We, the churches of this day, baptize ppl in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. I used to work with a woman who is DEEP in the WoF movement. She has a women's ministry and she has posted on FB about how they laid hands on other women and they received the 'baptism of the Spirit' and began speaking in tongues. Yah...whatever...
Ppl want to put themselves on the same level the Apostles were. They'll say if they could do it, so can we. Srsly? How many of us walked with Jesus during His earthly ministry? How many of us has audibly heard His voice? How many of us walked on water?
It boils down to a haughty spirit in ppl.
Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus. We, the churches of this day, baptize ppl in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. I used to work with a woman who is DEEP in the WoF movement. She has a women's ministry and she has posted on FB about how they laid hands on other women and they received the 'baptism of the Spirit' and began speaking in tongues. Yah...whatever...
Ppl want to put themselves on the same level the Apostles were. They'll say if they could do it, so can we. Srsly? How many of us walked with Jesus during His earthly ministry? How many of us has audibly heard His voice? How many of us walked on water?
It boils down to a haughty spirit in ppl.
I think it a very hard statement to make that " it doesn't happen today. The Apostles did not have the ability to raise the dead God gave them the ability and I have seen it happen too. But as i said personal experience or the lack thereof is in know way to suggest the Word of God account of miracle doesn't happen today because one person has not seen it. The Scriptures do not suggest they will not happen nor do they guarantee all would see them happen either. Your point about self proclaiming error is wrong but that too is not proof the Gifts of the Spirit are not for today.
The Holy Spirit Himself is a gift we receive from God the moment we receive Christ as our Savior.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Gods word never claims that the Holy Spirit would not be in our hearts nor that we would be left comfortless. It does tell us that three very specific gifts would end. It is the end of these three that causes so much strife in the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Gods word never claims that the Holy Spirit would not be in our hearts nor that we would be left comfortless. It does tell us that three very specific gifts would end. It is the end of these three that causes so much strife in the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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L
was anyone 'saved' before Christ died and rose again?
how could they be when Jesus had to die for our sins so we could be reconciled to God
I think you are trying to reconcile your personal beliefs by making scripture say something it does not actually say
we are saved by the blood of Christ...the disciples could not be saved through a different means
we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we are saved...you are in disagreement with scripture to state otherwise
For crying out loud! Does not anyone in these forums ever actually read the bible? The apostles did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until after the resurrection,, but they were still saved John 15:3 Now you(apostles) are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Clean means saved, unclean means lost. There is no personal beliefs involved in this, you can read it right out of the bible. The Spirit was with the apostles before Jesus resurrection but not in them, yet they were saved. My point is that there are some things that are unique to the apostles, none of us can be saved until we are actually given the indwelling Spirit, the apostles were saved by the word of Christ before they received the indwelling Spirit. So we cannot use EVERY experience of the apostles as our own.
Here where I live, churches have members pray over a bunch of limp rags and dole them out as 'prayer cloths'. To me, that mentality is 'if Paul can do it, so can I.' Only one problem, most ppl who get these limp rags, most of them die. I'd veenture to guess Paul's prayer cloths healed.
Peter walked by ppl as they were lined up just hoping for his shadow to fall upon them as he passed by. Are churches going to have their members attempt this next?
I am not being snarky here, and I pray you don't take it that way. But I would fall under the cessasionist camp.
Peter walked by ppl as they were lined up just hoping for his shadow to fall upon them as he passed by. Are churches going to have their members attempt this next?
I am not being snarky here, and I pray you don't take it that way. But I would fall under the cessasionist camp.
None of US can be saved without the indwelling Spirit, my point was that some things are unique to the 12 apostles and my example was that the apostles were saved by hearing and believing the words of Jesus even though at that time they did not have the indwelling Spirit. That is different from the rest of us.
L
what's the matter?
we disagree with what you say, so all of a sudden no one but you reads the Bible?
you have the rather peculiar opinion that the disciples were somehow saved differently from the rest of those who followed
so then, we have Plan A and Plan B
the gospel according to you I guess
I tell you what though..I've heard alot...but this special revelation you are espousing is a new one
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Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness.[Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4:3, & Jam. 2:23] To be righteous is to be justified by faith. Righteousness is having a 'right standing' with God. All of this centers around the Spirit of God. Man, in his unregenerate state, is at odds with God. He is a fleshly man that can not please Him.[Rom. 8:8] The unregenerate are His enemies.[Rom.8:7] It takes God to regenerate them. Regeneration is via His Spirit. Abraham could not have been declared righteous(have a right standing with God) w/o the Spirit.
Also, Jam. 2:23 says Abraham was God's friend. You can't be His friend w/o the Spirit.
Also, Jam. 2:23 says Abraham was God's friend. You can't be His friend w/o the Spirit.