Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#21
Are we not saved the same as the apostles? Yes and no. We and the apostles are both saved by faith in God through Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. However there are things that happened with the apostles that are unique to them, the apostles were saved without having the indwelling Holy Spirit, they had the Spirit with them but not in them, yet they were saved. We on the other hand are not saved until we have received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Also, when the indwelling Spirit was first given(baptism of the Spirit) the apostles were given the gift of the ability to speak languages that they did not know, but languages that Jews from different parts of the country did know. This was a witness that God gave to the Jews scattered abroad that were in Jerusalem for Pentecost that this was of God.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,258
2,892
113
#22
Are we not saved the same as the apostles? Yes and no. We and the apostles are both saved by faith in God through Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. However there are things that happened with the apostles that are unique to them, the apostles were saved without having the indwelling Holy Spirit, they had the Spirit with them but not in them, yet they were saved. We on the other hand are not saved until we have received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Also, when the indwelling Spirit was first given(baptism of the Spirit) the apostles were given the gift of the ability to speak languages that they did not know, but languages that Jews from different parts of the country did know. This was a witness that God gave to the Jews scattered abroad that were in Jerusalem for Pentecost that this was of God.


I disagree samuel23 they had the Holy Spirit in them as John 14 and 16 says they would
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,258
2,892
113
#23
[FONT=&quot]ready to move on to he second part of this topic [/FONT]
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
234
63
#24
Acts is a toughie. You see many things happening in those days that don't happen today. Ppl raised from the dead. Look at Eutychus, Dorcas(Tabbitha) for instance. None of us have the ability to raise the dead to life.

Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus. We, the churches of this day, baptize ppl in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. I used to work with a woman who is DEEP in the WoF movement. She has a women's ministry and she has posted on FB about how they laid hands on other women and they received the 'baptism of the Spirit' and began speaking in tongues. Yah...whatever...

Ppl want to put themselves on the same level the Apostles were. They'll say if they could do it, so can we. Srsly? How many of us walked with Jesus during His earthly ministry? How many of us has audibly heard His voice? How many of us walked on water?

It boils down to a haughty spirit in ppl.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,258
2,892
113
#25
Acts is a toughie. You see many things happening in those days that don't happen today. Ppl raised from the dead. Look at Eutychus, Dorcas(Tabbitha) for instance. None of us have the ability to raise the dead to life.

Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus. We, the churches of this day, baptize ppl in the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. I used to work with a woman who is DEEP in the WoF movement. She has a women's ministry and she has posted on FB about how they laid hands on other women and they received the 'baptism of the Spirit' and began speaking in tongues. Yah...whatever...

Ppl want to put themselves on the same level the Apostles were. They'll say if they could do it, so can we. Srsly? How many of us walked with Jesus during His earthly ministry? How many of us has audibly heard His voice? How many of us walked on water?

It boils down to a haughty spirit in ppl.

I think it a very hard statement to make that " it doesn't happen today. The Apostles did not have the ability to raise the dead God gave them the ability and I have seen it happen too. But as i said personal experience or the lack thereof is in know way to suggest the Word of God account of miracle doesn't happen today because one person has not seen it. The Scriptures do not suggest they will not happen nor do they guarantee all would see them happen either. Your point about self proclaiming error is wrong but that too is not proof the Gifts of the Spirit are not for today.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,527
113
#26
The Holy Spirit Himself is a gift we receive from God the moment we receive Christ as our Savior.

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Gods word never claims that the Holy Spirit would not be in our hearts nor that we would be left comfortless. It does tell us that three very specific gifts would end. It is the end of these three that causes so much strife in the modern church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,258
2,892
113
#27
The Holy Spirit Himself is a gift we receive from God the moment we receive Christ as our Savior.

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Gods word never claims that the Holy Spirit would not be in our hearts nor that we would be left comfortless. It does tell us that three very specific gifts would end. It is the end of these three that causes so much strife in the modern church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I'm sorry notuptome,

the bible does not say the "three gifts would end". and you have not shown that to be Biblical. The context of the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the Context of the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit" are spoken in scriptures as events for the Believer and gifts to the Church.
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#28
The apostles were saved before they ever received the indwelling Holy Spirit...John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, for He dwells WITH YOU and shall BE IN YOU. The apostles were saved through the word that Jesus spoke to them BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#29
The apostles were saved before they ever received the indwelling Holy Spirit...John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, for He dwells WITH YOU and shall BE IN YOU. The apostles were saved through the word that Jesus spoke to them BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit.


was anyone 'saved' before Christ died and rose again?

how could they be when Jesus had to die for our sins so we could be reconciled to God

I think you are trying to reconcile your personal beliefs by making scripture say something it does not actually say

we are saved by the blood of Christ...the disciples could not be saved through a different means

we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we are saved...you are in disagreement with scripture to state otherwise
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#30
For crying out loud! Does not anyone in these forums ever actually read the bible? The apostles did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until after the resurrection,, but they were still saved John 15:3 Now you(apostles) are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Clean means saved, unclean means lost. There is no personal beliefs involved in this, you can read it right out of the bible. The Spirit was with the apostles before Jesus resurrection but not in them, yet they were saved. My point is that there are some things that are unique to the apostles, none of us can be saved until we are actually given the indwelling Spirit, the apostles were saved by the word of Christ before they received the indwelling Spirit. So we cannot use EVERY experience of the apostles as our own.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
234
63
#31
I think it a very hard statement to make that " it doesn't happen today. The Apostles did not have the ability to raise the dead God gave them the ability and I have seen it happen too. But as i said personal experience or the lack thereof is in know way to suggest the Word of God account of miracle doesn't happen today because one person has not seen it. The Scriptures do not suggest they will not happen nor do they guarantee all would see them happen either. Your point about self proclaiming error is wrong but that too is not proof the Gifts of the Spirit are not for today.
Here where I live, churches have members pray over a bunch of limp rags and dole them out as 'prayer cloths'. To me, that mentality is 'if Paul can do it, so can I.' Only one problem, most ppl who get these limp rags, most of them die. I'd veenture to guess Paul's prayer cloths healed.

Peter walked by ppl as they were lined up just hoping for his shadow to fall upon them as he passed by. Are churches going to have their members attempt this next?

I am not being snarky here, and I pray you don't take it that way. But I would fall under the cessasionist camp.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
234
63
#32
For crying out loud! Does not anyone in these forums ever actually read the bible? The apostles did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until after the resurrection,, but they were still saved John 15:3 Now you(apostles) are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Clean means saved, unclean means lost. There is no personal beliefs involved in this, you can read it right out of the bible. The Spirit was with the apostles before Jesus resurrection but not in them, yet they were saved. My point is that there are some things that are unique to the apostles, none of us can be saved until we are actually given the indwelling Spirit, the apostles were saved by the word of Christ before they received the indwelling Spirit. So we cannot use EVERY experience of the apostles as our own.
How is one saved w/o the indwelling of the Spirit? Got some scriptures for us to investigate together?
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#33
None of US can be saved without the indwelling Spirit, my point was that some things are unique to the 12 apostles and my example was that the apostles were saved by hearing and believing the words of Jesus even though at that time they did not have the indwelling Spirit. That is different from the rest of us.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
234
63
#34
None of US can be saved without the indwelling Spirit, my point was that some things are unique to the 12 apostles and my example was that the apostles were saved by hearing and believing the words of Jesus even though at that time they did not have the indwelling Spirit. That is different from the rest of us.
But how could the 12 be saved w/o the indwelling of the Spirit? Yes, they were saved by hearing and believing as Romans 10:8-17 avers. But how could they, or any OT ppl be saved w/o the indwelling of the Spirit?
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#35
For crying out loud! Does not anyone in these forums ever actually read the bible? The apostles did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until after the resurrection,, but they were still saved John 15:3 Now you(apostles) are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Clean means saved, unclean means lost. There is no personal beliefs involved in this, you can read it right out of the bible. The Spirit was with the apostles before Jesus resurrection but not in them, yet they were saved. My point is that there are some things that are unique to the apostles, none of us can be saved until we are actually given the indwelling Spirit, the apostles were saved by the word of Christ before they received the indwelling Spirit. So we cannot use EVERY experience of the apostles as our own.

what's the matter?

we disagree with what you say, so all of a sudden no one but you reads the Bible?

you have the rather peculiar opinion that the disciples were somehow saved differently from the rest of those who followed

so then, we have Plan A and Plan B

the gospel according to you I guess

I tell you what though..I've heard alot...but this special revelation you are espousing is a new one
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#36
None of US can be saved without the indwelling Spirit, my point was that some things are unique to the 12 apostles and my example was that the apostles were saved by hearing and believing the words of Jesus even though at that time they did not have the indwelling Spirit. That is different from the rest of us.


you have just rather handily contradicted yourself
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
75
48
#37
I know Evangelist who move in signs, wonders, and miracles today---- Africa---- Pakistan---- to confirm the Word---- Muslims are converted when they see miracles...
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#38
Lauren: If you will CAREFULLY read my posts you will see that I did not contradict myself. At any rate, I did not contradict myself but if you cannot recognize that then so be it.
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#39
Hi SG: How could the apostles be saved without the indwelling Spirit? Jesus said they were clean through His word.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
234
63
#40
Hi SG: How could the apostles be saved without the indwelling Spirit? Jesus said they were clean through His word.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness.[Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4:3, & Jam. 2:23] To be righteous is to be justified by faith. Righteousness is having a 'right standing' with God. All of this centers around the Spirit of God. Man, in his unregenerate state, is at odds with God. He is a fleshly man that can not please Him.[Rom. 8:8] The unregenerate are His enemies.[Rom.8:7] It takes God to regenerate them. Regeneration is via His Spirit. Abraham could not have been declared righteous(have a right standing with God) w/o the Spirit.

Also, Jam. 2:23 says Abraham was God's friend. You can't be His friend w/o the Spirit.