Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

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AuntieAnt

Guest
Woe! I thought we were on the same team here. :confused: Do you believe that when Jesus told the woman to "go and sin no more" that He truly expected her from that moment on to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, perfect life?
I believe that Jesus was able to keep her from falling and that she no longer had to focus on her carnal life anymore. Sin was not the issue anymore. People keep making it the issue, but Christ died to get our eyes on him. We can either live focused on the Lord in our hearts, or keep our eyes on ourselves, our flesh.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
I was thinking the same thing, UNTIL she told me that I sounded like Nicodemus. :eek:
I was not thinking you sounded like Nicodemus by any means :), I just liked the rest of what she said about being and living as saints.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Jesus keeps you whether you believe him or not. He is faithful and can't deny himself. He was, is and always will be Lord of All. But if you choose not to believe him, you're walking spiritually blind, your eyes focused only on the outward man. If you walk by faith in Christ alone, you will see that you are in reality set free.
I agree that Jesus keeps believers and that we are set free in Christ, but that does not mean we live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, perfect life 100% of the time.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
I agree there is a timeline piece that needs to be considered and is very important.


Personally I don't think the woman that was caught in adultery was a new creation as Jesus had not died yet nor was resurrected in order for her to become a new creation in Christ. I do believe that "hearing" Jesus' words that He didn't condemn her did give her the strength to "go and sin no more" in the situation that He was talking to her about.

These people were still under the Law until Christ died. We too have died to the Law and have now been joined to another - Jesus our Lord. Romans 7:1-6
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
I was thinking the same thing, UNTIL she told me that I sounded like Nicodemus. :eek:
Wow mailman, Nicodemus wasn't a bad guy. And why wouldn't I share with you? I'm not criticizing you. We all help and encourage one another. I've been shown spiritual truth plenty of times, and praise God for that!! I've spiritually grown so much since I joined this site, mostly because I was being corrected by you members! There's no shame in all of us teaching each other, right?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I believe that Jesus was able to keep her from falling and that she no longer had to focus on her carnal life anymore. Sin was not the issue anymore. People keep making it the issue, but Christ died to get our eyes on him. We can either live focused on the Lord in our hearts, or keep our eyes on ourselves, our flesh.
I'm not disagreeing with you here. I am simply disagreeing with people who abuse John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Wow mailman, Nicodemus wasn't a bad guy. And why wouldn't I share with you? I'm not criticizing you. We all help and encourage one another. I've been shown spiritual truth plenty of times, and praise God for that!! I've spiritually grown so much since I joined this site, mostly because I was being corrected by you members! There's no shame in all of us teaching each other, right?
I took it as criticism at first, but maybe I just misunderstood you. There is no shame in all of us teach each other. Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpens iron. :)
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
That is definitely a problem.

They confuse God's declaration (righteous and justified) His View, to who we still are on the this earth as we move from faith to faith and are being conformed to His Image.


I'm not disagreeing with you here. I am simply disagreeing with people who abuse John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection.
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
I agree that Jesus keeps believers and that we are set free in Christ, but that does not mean we live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, perfect life 100% of the time.
See, you keep resorting back to the dead life, that man was crucified with Christ. Why would I keep focusing on sin when Christ redeemed me from it? Either we believe we are spiritual beings being formed into the image of God by God or we believe we're changing ourselves. It's believing him, not trusting in my own understanding.

Either I'm now a saint because of Christ like God said, or I'm a sinner "being" saved by obedience.
 
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I believe that Jesus was able to keep her from falling and that she no longer had to focus on her carnal life anymore. Sin was not the issue anymore. People keep making it the issue, but Christ died to get our eyes on him. We can either live focused on the Lord in our hearts, or keep our eyes on ourselves, our flesh.

I was thinking about this and the Holy Spirit brought up Peter walking on the water with just that one word "Come" from Jesus.

Jesus said His words are spirit and they are life. The woman caught in adultery after hearing Jesus did not condemn her which I call "acceptance grace" - it would have released in her life the other aspect of grace - "empowering grace" to do what He had said to her.
 
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psalm6819

Guest
well, the up side is even if someone thinks they can lose or throw away thier salvation

GOD doesn't, He is faithful. I am so thankful He loves us.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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See, you keep resorting back to the dead life, that man was crucified with Christ. Why would I keep focusing on sin when Christ redeemed me from it? Either we believe we are spiritual beings being formed into the image of God by God or we believe we're changing ourselves. It's believing him, not trusting in my own understanding.

Either I'm now a saint because of Christ like God said, or I'm a sinner "being" saved by obedience.
Now I'm confused again. How am I resorting back to the dead life just because I don't teach sinless perfection? :confused:

Believers are saints BECAUSE OF CHRIST and God preserves His saints (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1).
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
Now I'm confused again. How am I resorting back to the dead life just because I don't teach sinless perfection? :confused:

Believers are saints BECAUSE OF CHRIST and God preserves His saints (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1).
I was just standing in my room asking God to give me His words so I don't rely on mine. And I was reminded of that man whom Jesus healed of blindness. The religious leaders in the temple questioned him about Jesus. But all the man could verify was, "I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!"

So I'm looking back at my own life and realize that once I was ruled by fear & anger, once I was a daily pot smoker, once I was an alcoholic, once I was a whole lot of things that were ungodly. Once I was a sinner. But now I'm not.

I don't know the day I ceased to be those things, don't even know how God changed me. And I say to him all the time, "You're so awesome, Father! How'd you do that? How'd you get me to trust and believe you? How'd you make your desires mine? How'd you make me see? You amaze me, God!"

Mind you, I know before this day is over my mind may think something motivated by the flesh because the carnal mind doesn't change. And you can call that sinful thought. Maybe I'll eat too much ice cream (gluttony) or get worrisome about something (doubt & unbelief) or turn my nose up to someone (pride) or judge others (self-righteousness) or whatever. That's the flesh for ya!

But if I do, I have an advocate. God will change me. He will get my attention, his Holy Spirit will shed light in my heart, and the Lord will change my mind because his truth sets a man free. He will make me see and make me more into his image. HE will do it.

How do I know? Because he's already done it over & over, and I know it wasn't my doing. I have no wisdom of myself. I am ruled by God. We all are.

All I know is once I was a woman in the flesh, and now I am a spiritual being. I didn't do it. God did.
 
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Cee

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May 14, 2010
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Same with me.

It's a powerful thing when we live from salvation instead of for it. All of the sudden the world isn't about me and keeping my salvation, it's about reconciling more to Him. We accept His approval so we can share Him with others. It was when Jesus was told this is My Son that His supernatural ministry began. This baptism of love. And His life is our example.

We don't work for love.
We are embraced by love.
And He transforms us.

I was just standing in my room asking God to give me His words so I don't rely on mine. And I was reminded of that man whom Jesus healed of blindness. The religious leaders in the temple questioned him about Jesus. But all the man could verify was, "I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!"

So I'm looking back at my own life and realize that once I was ruled by fear & anger, once I was a daily pot smoker, once I was an alcoholic, once I was a whole lot of things that were ungodly. Once I was a sinner. But now I'm not.

I don't know the day I ceased to be those things, don't even know how God changed me. And I say to him all the time, "You're so awesome, Father! How'd you do that? How'd you get me to trust and believe you? How'd you make your desires mine? How'd you make me see? You amaze me, God!"

Mind you, I know before this day is over my mind may think something motivated by the flesh because the carnal mind doesn't change. And you can call that sinful thought. Maybe I'll eat too much ice cream (gluttony) or get worrisome about something (doubt & unbelief) or turn my nose up to someone (pride) or judge others (self-righteousness) or whatever. That's the flesh for ya!

But if I do, I have an advocate. God will change me. He will get my attention, his Holy Spirit will shed light in my heart, and the Lord will change my mind because his truth sets a man free. He will make me see and make me more into his image. HE will do it.

How do I know? Because he's already done it over & over, and I know it wasn't my doing. I have no wisdom of myself. I am ruled by God. We all are.

All I know is once I was a woman in the flesh, and now I am a spiritual being. I didn't do it. God did.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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so equally do those who believe ALL His promises of eternal security if not moreso.
I believe all God's promises about eternal security but I do not believe in "once saved always saved"
 
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Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
How can you be saved without the light of God? Likewise, how can you lose the light of God, and yet be saved? Here Jesus is threatening to remove the 'candlestick' from the church unless they repented...and I don't think He makes idle threats.


Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.


Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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Whenever obscure scriptures "seem" to be contrary to the abundance of very clear scriptures on the grace of Christ and salvation then we should never allow these obscure ones to take away the clear ones.
OK, but then how and who decides what the "abundance of clear Scriptures" are? OSAS supporters or OSAS rejectors?

I think that we can take every Scripture in its context and clearly interpret it. The starting point of interpretation needs to be the Scripture text itself, not what I or someone else has decided already that Scripture teaches.
 
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Go ahead..... attack one scripture to prove a point, & ignore the rest..... ignore the Word of God
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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How then do you explain THESE Scriptures?


'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
Wonderful Scriptures that talk about the security of the believer, about our salvation by grace through faith, and about the eternal life given to believers! But none of them say that once a person is saved, he will always be saved. None of them say that a person who is not believing in Jesus is saved.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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but they don't speak for themselves. different people interpret them in different ways.

take the first examples. The writer ignores the Scripture in context which says. "You are NOT in the flesh but in The Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you." In other words no Christian is ever 'in the flesh' even though he may be tempted by the flesh
If you follow my comment back to the context of it , you will see that I am trying to say that it is OK to interpret Scripture. (Or at least that is what I was trying to convey). Anyway I agree with you that Scriptures need to be interpreted and different people interpret them in different ways.

So I could argue with your interpretation, but I can't right now! Not because I don't want to or couldn't, but am leaving on a two week trip tomorrow morning!

So you better all get your Scriptural interpretation fixed up good before I come back or I will come back and straighten you out really good! :)