Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Chester]

Go ahead..... attack one scripture to prove a point, & ignore the rest..... ignore the Word of God

Hmmmmm! Interesting!

?????? !!!!!!!!!!

Are you suggesting we take what "scholars and the learned" say that the Bible says and use that yardstick to interpret the rest of Scripture?

Dare the common everyday ploughboy not work at interpreting an individual Scripture?

 

[Chester]

Hmmmmm! Interesting!

?????? !!!!!!!!!!

Are you suggesting we take what "scholars and the learned" say that the Bible says and use that yardstick to interpret the rest of Scripture?

Dare the common everyday ploughboy not work at interpreting an individual Scripture?

Not sure Stephen 63? I may have completely missed what you were saying or trying to do? I think you and I are probably pretty close in beliefs, but I am not sure?? Anyway, I have got to go and will be gone for two weeks!

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Spirit of truth is with us forever!

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:


John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?


As for 2 Peter 2 ...here is the answer to that...that has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.

The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..

then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.

Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell.

Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us.

Twice dead

 

[wvbeliever]

I am new to the forum and I read this post it talks a lot about the woman who committed adultery in John Chapter 8 and one thing a lot of people miss is it would have been a sin to stone just the woman alone Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. And Leviticus 20:10. I don't live by the Law but by grace and my faith is in Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh. Lord Jesus knew the Pharisees and scribes where trying to twist the law to suit their evil ways and do as their ruler Satan so they could accuse Jesus. But he knew they where going to do it before they even did it. God has stated many times he will not be mocked and it is so true all the times He stumps all the religious dictators many times in gospel all four books is just a few examples. They where taking a scripture and twisting it like Satan did with Eve in the garden. The adulteress woman addressed him as Lord stating she believes in Jesus and he did also what he said in John 3:17 when he spoke to her he wasn't here to condemn anyone but everyone is accountable for everything they do though. And I have family that believes in OSAS and some that don't I still love the ones that don't but I believe OSAS and I dare not attack and scripture of God or nor do I want to twist scripture I do want to ask everyone not just OSAS but those who don't agree as well about two things I want actual bible scriptures and not a argument did Jesus ever say he takes the Holy Spirit away from a believer after you receive him The Holy Ghost? And a specific name of someone who believed throughtout the whole Bible that God sent to hell after they believed if someone can show me both of those in the Bible then I will say there is no OSAS. Its not about me but God and his glory. If anything is unclear just ask and I wil try to explain clearer.

 

[fredoheaven]

I am new to the forum and I read this post it talks a lot about the woman who committed adultery in John Chapter 8 and one thing a lot of people miss is it would have been a sin to stone just the woman alone Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. And Leviticus 20:10. I don't live by the Law but by grace and my faith is in Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh. Lord Jesus knew the Pharisees and scribes where trying to twist the law to suit their evil ways and do as their ruler Satan so they could accuse Jesus. But he knew they where going to do it before they even did it. God has stated many times he will not be mocked and it is so true all the times He stumps all the religious dictators many times in gospel all four books is just a few examples. They where taking a scripture and twisting it like Satan did with Eve in the garden. The adulteress woman addressed him as Lord stating she believes in Jesus and he did also what he said in John 3:17 when he spoke to her he wasn't here to condemn anyone but everyone is accountable for everything they do though. And I have family that believes in OSAS and some that don't I still love the ones that don't but I believe OSAS and I dare not attack and scripture of God or nor do I want to twist scripture I do want to ask everyone not just OSAS but those who don't agree as well about two things I want actual bible scriptures and not a argument did Jesus ever say he takes the Holy Spirit away from a believer after you receive him The Holy Ghost? And a specific name of someone who believed throughtout the whole Bible that God sent to hell after they believed if someone can show me both of those in the Bible then I will say there is no OSAS. Its not about me but God and his glory. If anything is unclear just ask and I wil try to explain clearer.

Welcome to CC!!!

The original OP is somewhat unclear to me and hoping you can clear the clutters...

Thanks

 

[fredoheaven]

Wonderful Scriptures that talk about the security of the believer, about our salvation by grace through faith, and about the eternal life given to believers! But none of them say that once a person is saved, he will always be saved. None of them say that a person who is not believing in Jesus is saved.

So i am seeing and understanding your point...

 

[wvbeliever]

Thank Ya fredoheaven for the welcome and I have no idea what a original OP is? And what is unclear I can either put it on here or give you a private message.

 

[fredoheaven]

If you follow my comment back to the context of it , you will see that I am trying to say that it is OK to interpret Scripture. (Or at least that is what I was trying to convey). Anyway I agree with you that Scriptures need to be interpreted and different people interpret them in different ways.

So I could argue with your interpretation, but I can't right now! Not because I don't want to or couldn't, but am leaving on a two week trip tomorrow morning!

So you better all get your Scriptural interpretation fixed up good before I come back or I will come back and straighten you out really good!

Sounds weighty and powerful...

2 Corinthians 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but hisbodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible

 

[fredoheaven]

Thank Ya fredoheaven for the welcome and I have no idea what a original OP is? And what is unclear I can either put it on here or give you a private message.

Okay. Thank you.

 

[God4me]

I believe that Jesus was able to keep her from falling and that she no longer had to focus on her carnal life anymore. Sin was not the issue anymore. People keep making it the issue, but Christ died to get our eyes on him. We can either live focused on the Lord in our hearts, or keep our eyes on ourselves, our flesh.

If Jesus was able to keep her from falling, then He could have kept everyone from falling, So why would He need to die.
That would make God a murderer.

 

[God4me]

I was thinking about this and the Holy Spirit brought up Peter walking on the water with just that one word "Come" from Jesus.

Jesus said His words are spirit and they are life. The woman caught in adultery after hearing Jesus did not condemn her which I call "acceptance grace" - it would have released in her life the other aspect of grace - "empowering grace" to do what He had said to her.

If what you said was true, Then you'll have to admit that you believe God is a murderer, Because if what you said was true, The Jesus needed have died.

 

[God4me]

Now I'm confused again. How am I resorting back to the dead life just because I don't teach sinless perfection?

Believers are saints BECAUSE OF CHRIST and God preserves His saints (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1).

Believers are also healed, 1 Pet 2: 24, But not every Christians walk in divine health all the time.
And it's the same with Saints, Not every Christian live like a saint, [Set apart for God], every day.
There is a God side, [He calls us saint], and a Our side, [We have to live it out].

 

[JGIG]

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:4 (KJV, MBM)

What's an 'MBM' version, disciplemike? I did an online search and couldn't find it.

-JGIG

 

[followjesus]

And so you understand these scriptures to support your belief that God now expects you to maintain his holy moral standard that Jesus had to die on the cross for because you couldn't keep his holy moral standard. Is that correct?

you are referring to the Law of moses " Gods perfect moral standard". Christians obey Jesus and His commands. a higher standard than the old. in the law its enough to not kill, in Christ we are warned of the hate. because the hate causes the violence . in the law as long as you don't commit adultery you are ok. in Christ, Lust is what were warned about because it causes adultery and sexual sin. ect. this is the difference in the old and new. the old could never redeem us, because no matter how good we behaved, inside there was still all the heart issues like lust and greed, hate, deceit ect.


By obeying Jesus commands. we overcome the issue that causes the actions. sin isn't Just the action, but the infection in us, the disease in our hearts. obeying Jesus is about obedience that solves the issue rather than restricts sinful people, to act right, obeying Jesus, makes new people out of sinners by cleansing the heart. because His commands are the way they are. the law is death, Jesus is Life.

 

[JGIG]

I mean Satan cannot rob them of their salvation, so he does the next best thing and tries to rob them of the joy of their salvation by keeping them locked up under Law.

Which goes to the Enemy's real goal once he's lost a soul - to make that soul impotent (Fruitless) in bringing others into the Kingdom.

18 If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (from Gal. 5)
​

Conversely, if you are not under the Law and are led by the Spirit, then you bear the Fruit that the Spirit produces:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (from Gal. 5)​

A believer who is living a Spirit-led life, bearing Spirit-produced Fruit, will inevitably be a light to the Lost. Yeah . . . the Enemy doesn't like that much.

-JGIG

 

[disciplemike]

By obeying Jesus commands. we overcome the issue that causes the actions. sin isn't Just the action, but the infection in us, the disease in our hearts. obeying Jesus is about obedience that solves the issue rather than restricts sinful people, to act right, obeying Jesus, makes new people out of sinners by cleansing the heart. because His commands are the way they are. the law is death, Jesus is Life.

I agree the Messiah is about changing the heart, and that will produce results. But think about this, the divorce rate in the "church" is above 50%. If they can't even love their spouse, do you think they are loving their neighbor?
A lot of people will be in for a shock, because they think they are (real) believers, but they are not there yet.

 

[disciplemike]

What's an 'MBM' version, disciplemike? I did an online search and couldn't find it.

-JGIG

"modified by mike". sometimes, (not all the time), I change some of the words back to Hebrew or Greek.

 

[JGIG]

well, the up side is even if someone thinks they can lose or throw away thier salvation

GOD doesn't, He is faithful. I am so thankful He loves us.

Yes! Imagine the joy of those who have come to think they've lost their salvation because of the self-maintenance teachers, but then they come into the presence of God upon their passing. Their surprise might be similar to the Prodigal's as the Father ran to meet him.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I was just standing in my room asking God to give me His words so I don't rely on mine. And I was reminded of that man whom Jesus healed of blindness. The religious leaders in the temple questioned him about Jesus. But all the man could verify was, "I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!"

So I'm looking back at my own life and realize that once I was ruled by fear & anger, once I was a daily pot smoker, once I was an alcoholic, once I was a whole lot of things that were ungodly. Once I was a sinner. But now I'm not.

I don't know the day I ceased to be those things, don't even know how God changed me. And I say to him all the time, "You're so awesome, Father! How'd you do that? How'd you get me to trust and believe you? How'd you make your desires mine? How'd you make me see? You amaze me, God!"

Mind you, I know before this day is over my mind may think something motivated by the flesh because the carnal mind doesn't change. And you can call that sinful thought. Maybe I'll eat too much ice cream (gluttony) or get worrisome about something (doubt & unbelief) or turn my nose up to someone (pride) or judge others (self-righteousness) or whatever. That's the flesh for ya!

But if I do, I have an advocate. God will change me. He will get my attention, his Holy Spirit will shed light in my heart, and the Lord will change my mind because his truth sets a man free. He will make me see and make me more into his image. HE will do it.

How do I know? Because he's already done it over & over, and I know it wasn't my doing. I have no wisdom of myself. I am ruled by God. We all are.

All I know is once I was a woman in the flesh, and now I am a spiritual being. I didn't do it. God did.

I would submit to you that everyone is a spiritual being - we are either spiritually dead in Adam or spiritually alive in Christ, having received Him and His Work on our behalf. When we are born of the Spirit (become spiritually alive in Christ), then the renewing of the mind can begin, and we begin to bear the Fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in and through us.

-JGIG