"All Have sinned," really?

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#61
An 18 month old has a simple vocabulary. He looked at you because he was afraid that if he touched them there would be consequence/a spanking? I dont understand. The fact that he went anyway was because he was CURIOUS ... which is a natural (not sinful thing) abou the interesting new object. If that is a sin, for an 18 month old, then we are alll doomed. Seriously, perhaps a course in child psychology is warranted here.
A good read through the Bible is what is warranted here.

This is proof and evidence of the inborn sin nature. Sure the little tot was curious. That is the excuse that all sinners will probably try out on God at the White Throne Judgement. I don't believe that any babies will be cast into Hell, but the principle of inborn sin nature is still evidenced by a rebellious-selfish sin nature than has been born into us since the day Adam sinned. Spanking is not for so for some perverted sadistic joy. It is not even for punishment. It is for learning. God handles His own the same way.

Hebrews 12

12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#62
Yes, Satan the father of lies was a murderer from day one. Murdering mankind. He hates all flesh. This is seeing angels, as spirit messengers are not subject to salvation. Not created in the image of God ...His image is represented by two.Two needed to recreate or add.. . 2 = 1 (mankind) The murderer shows his fury . . . he knows his end and offers the illusions as lying wonders ; "Living the Dream" in a false hope it will never die.

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Better things accompanying those who have been redeemed . A future hope towards living the dream knowing our father knows what we need before he asks he works in us with us both to will and do His good pleasure . He informs us to do it without murmurings .he will not forget the good works we do offer towards his name . Its us who need a reminder.

Thankfully as a miracle we can pray and know we are being heard. Especially for the little ones. Bless the hands that have a part with the young and the Elderly . it would seem to reflect the pure religion spoken of in James. Care for the widows who were married as two that representing the bride of Christ to the world in their suffering and loneliness. and orphan our selves once not having a heavenly father.

Its not the repetition or much speaking that is vain .In our anxieties our father would have us cry out over and over for comfort . He as our guide comforts us by brining to our mind the things he pervious has taught. . He is like the front guard as well as the rear a cleft in a Rock . e have no armor for the rear.


But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Mathew 6: 7-12
If you mean that satan can tempt people early in their life, that is probably highly likely, there is an account of the heel catcher at birth so is that also pointing to an very early stage of temptation that can happen to people?
 
Dec 6, 2018
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#63
Only a non Christian that doesn't understand that Christ died for our sin debt would think we are doomed because we sin.

And yes. Disobeying parents is sin.

And Yes. Your whole post supposed that I spanked my 1.5 yr old. And yes. That would be a lie.
We need to stop redefining what sin is. God doesn't grade on a curve.
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Well Ed, I tried to be gracious but you refused it. I asked if your child obeyed because of spanking .. note the question mark? That does not constitute a lie. That is a question. My .. you also need a course in Logic.

Yeah, God definitely is not a monster and yes he definitely is going to grade on a curvee... most religions including: mainline Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Judaism +++ ... all believe that God, as represented by Jesus (Beatitudes & Sermon on th Mount in particular) ... is a God of love. Those who say that God would punish a child with cancer or that a Jew will go to Hell for obeying HIS own parents in the religion into which he was born ... make no sense at all. We are saying that God is a monster and is more immoral than us. That is impossible! Babies are not evil. We cannot inherit original sin (what Adam and Eve did is taken out on us ...? what). If you are a THINKING REASONING human being, none of this makes any sense. I am not a Fundmentalist. I am leaving this forum. Fundmentalism is irrational.

You have to disbelieve Science, you have to believe the earth is 6,000 years old ... you have to believe and the only way that is accomplished is by brainwashing with fear. I do not FEAR God. I LOVE GOD. You cannot love that which you fear. I hope some get to read my message and allow themselves only one thing: to think and to ask a question such as "how can a baby be evil???". How??? They are totally innocent. To t hink that Baptism (throwing water on a baby) takes away that sin is insane. To think that the sin of Adam (not sure it was so awful as they just ate a darn apple) ... to think that because of that we are all born evil is INSANITY. So, Penn Ed, report this post and have me banned. I don't belong here.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#64
Such a loaded question for the Canon; Canon of scripture that is. Let me just say for now, "Man that is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble." How does that answer your question? The hiden meaning does! Man that is carried emotionally by woman does not Love God first and groing up is still looking for a mother figure as an idol. By your question without knowing anything about you, your a woman. Ok so we dont all have the same trouble, some seek a treasure in this life more than God. Some their on life: a life for themselves instesd of a life in God. The fruit of the tree of knowlege of good and evil is a missunderstood parabole. The meaning hiden because "Love doea not insist on its own way." Love cant be forced, "A God that hides Himself from us."
Back to "What fruit had you in those things tou are now ashamed."
The fruit of the mind of the flesh is living for our ego. Babies are born demanding. Makes me think of a woman who said to her husband, I dont mind that your'd'man, just dont be de'man'ding. The sainig your'd'man comes from David exposed by Natan for comitting adultery and murder.
Now if your question is: how can God judge children? He doesent.
But you need to see the hiden meaning of the manyfold Wisdom od God and need Patience along with that.
He can give a baby in the womb ears to hear His Spirit . John the baptized "leaped for joy" a metaphor for salvation, recorded twice to emphasize the joy.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe "leaped" in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe "leaped" in my womb for joy.Luke1: 41-44

It is a matter of the "source of faith as to its living work in us? From who. . towards who? Either they believe a God not seen revealed in a book of law or they remain faithless to that which is written. It would appear no limbo between. The gospel the power of God in us not of us.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John3:18

The fruit of death

Genes 3; 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God did not want them to drink poison used to represent false doctrine that came from the mouth of the first false prophet. The father of lies, the god of this world. The "fruit of experiencing" Doing the will of another. But rather he desired they walk by faith .Not in respect to the temporal corrupted things .The glory departed.

I think Romans speaks to that issue. God concludes mankind as faithless so that he can have mercy on all that will believe giving them ears to hear him who is invisible.

Romans 11:31-33 King James Version (KJV) Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#65
If you mean that satan can tempt people early in their life, that is probably highly likely, there is an account of the heel catcher at birth so is that also pointing to an very early stage of temptation that can happen to people?
Good point. As soon as they are born they begin telling lies. Looking to the temporal things seen to save them. Best time to get close and protect.

Perhaps one might get called like Samuel, God moving the stepfather Eli after three attempts to direct Samuel as how to hear the hearing of faith.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#66
Well Ed, I tried to be gracious but you refused it. I asked if your child obeyed because of spanking .. note the question mark? That does not constitute a lie. That is a question. My .. you also need a course in Logic.
Funny how you conveniently left THIS out: from YOU!
"I have a question: Did spanking him make him stop? That would mean that you only had to say NO once/then spank and he would have learned. In future all you needed to do was say NO and no need to spank. If you needed to keep spanking him over the years, (if that is what you did), then the spanking did not work."

Care to retract?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#67
Good point. As soon as they are born they begin telling lies. Looking to the temporal things seen to save them. Best time to get close and protect.

Perhaps one might get called like Samuel, God moving the stepfather Eli after three attempts to direct Samuel as how to hear the hearing of faith.
the first year of a persons life is very important learning stage, there is no other year a person does the most growing physically and mentally than the first year. it’s something to be aware of among parents yet I also think there is a time when a child knows enough to have the ability hence accountability of his or her actions to choose good or evil.

A example in scripture of that is this I think.

Isaiah 15
By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#68
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
I’m not trying to be rude or anything robo36, but it appears you haven’t given this much study before posting the statements. the title of the thread and the opening post is a misuse of scripture which seems to have caused some unnecessary debating, all have sinned isn’t about individual sin done as in modern times or even after the garden account, Cain was responsible
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
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www.christiancourier.com
#69
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
Babies are not born with sin and the children of St.Jude hospital do not suffer cancers because of their sin.
Cancer is a disease. God does not cause newborns to suffer disease as an affliction due to what some call their sinful nature.
St.Jude has a nearly 90% cure rate for their patients. There is no cure but Jesus for our sins. And as far as babies and newborns go, they are not sinners until they are accountable for their sins. This means until they reach an age to know right from wrong.

Without the law there is no sin, the Bible says. The Book of Romans chapter 4 verse 15. That fact in scripture precludes the argument God's law no longer matters. God's law is written in the heart of the saint, those saved by God's grace and who hold faith in Jesus Christ.
The ten commandments that we're so familiar with are part of that moral law construct that lead us into understanding of love for God and love for our neighbors, whom we are to love as we love ourselves.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#70
Babies are not born with sin and the children of St.Jude hospital do not suffer cancers because of their sin.
Cancer is a disease. God does not cause newborns to suffer disease as an affliction due to what some call their sinful nature.
St.Jude has a nearly 90% cure rate for their patients. There is no cure but Jesus for our sins. And as far as babies and newborns go, they are not sinners until they are accountable for their sins. This means until they reach an age to know right from wrong.

Without the law there is no sin, the Bible says. The Book of Romans chapter 4 verse 15. That fact in scripture precludes the argument God's law no longer matters. God's law is written in the heart of the saint, those saved by God's grace and who hold faith in Jesus Christ.
The ten commandments that we're so familiar with are part of that moral law construct that lead us into understanding of love for God and love for our neighbors, whom we are to love as we love ourselves.
Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die. The wrath of God revealed from heaven.

100 % of the 90% cure rate die.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,881
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#71
Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die. The wrath of God revealed from heaven.

100 % of the 90% cure rate die.
From where are you able to say that because someone is born with cancer that is evidence of the Lord's wrath?

Are you suggesting from the latter statement the 2nd death or simple mortality as it is appointed?


This is so vague that is could easily be misconstrued as saying they are condemned from birth, and will die with no hope with no other choice available to them. Granted there are some positions that say this, but your statement needs some expansion.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#72
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
We are told in 1Timothy2:15 "Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.". We see that women are to walk in faith, love, holiness, with self control. The promise then is that they will be saved though childbearing. I am sure there is a spiritual meaning but the literal meaning is that if she does this then she is going to have a healthy baby.

My father served our community as a pediatrician for over 50 years. This was an ongoing debate between him and me. He was convinced that sickness was random and that the family was not to blame in anyway. So this is clearly something that is open for discussion.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#73
Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die.
"corrupted cancer prone bodies" comes from a violation of the law. There is no difference between the law of God and the word of God. Both were written using the same Hebrew letters.

 

Attachments

Dec 30, 2019
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#74
Who can say what God's ultimate plan is in the live of those affected by disease,disasters, or any misfortune.
His ultimate plan is that we become Heirs with Christ. "In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God's glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering. " (Romans 8:17)
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
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#75
I’m not trying to be rude or anything robo36, but it appears you haven’t given this much study before posting the statements. the title of the thread and the opening post is a misuse of scripture which seems to have caused some unnecessary debating, all have sinned isn’t about individual sin done as in modern times or even after the garden account, Cain was responsible
Could you possibly explain how my post was, is, a “misuse” of scripture?

Can you answer the question of the original post? I see no effort of that in your post.
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
186
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#76
Babies are not born with sin and the children of St.Jude hospital do not suffer cancers because of their sin.
Cancer is a disease. God does not cause newborns to suffer disease as an affliction due to what some call their sinful nature.
St.Jude has a nearly 90% cure rate for their patients. There is no cure but Jesus for our sins. And as far as babies and newborns go, they are not sinners until they are accountable for their sins. This means until they reach an age to know right from wrong.

Without the law there is no sin, the Bible says. The Book of Romans chapter 4 verse 15. That fact in scripture precludes the argument God's law no longer matters. God's law is written in the heart of the saint, those saved by God's grace and who hold faith in Jesus Christ.
The ten commandments that we're so familiar with are part of that moral law construct that lead us into understanding of love for God and love for our neighbors, whom we are to love as we love ourselves.
What do you believe is the age of accountability? Is there biblical scripture to support an age of accountability?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#77
Could you possibly explain how my post was, is, a “misuse” of scripture?

Can you answer the question of the original post? I see no effort of that in your post.
hmm of what you said I’m now wondering if you knew the whole time

I made quite a few post, and I think I explained my position on the matter
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#78
What do you believe is the age of accountability? Is there biblical scripture to support an age of accountability?
the age isn’t exact from person to person.

Isaiah 15
By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#79
From where are you able to say that because someone is born with cancer that is evidence of the Lord's wrath?

Are you suggesting from the latter statement the 2nd death or simple mortality as it is appointed?


This is so vague that is could easily be misconstrued as saying they are condemned from birth, and will die with no hope with no other choice available to them. Granted there are some positions that say this, but your statement needs some expansion.
A dying creation is revealing the wrath of God . Cancer causes death.

Its appointed for all men to die once then comes the execution or carrying out on the last day. Christians will receive their new incorruptible bodies and the letter of the law death will be cast into the judgment of God never to rise and condemn another whole creation.

Because of the sin of mankind, Adam and Eve that caused the corruption, all mankind with no description of age are born without any hope or God .God must do a work in them before we can hear understand and then seek after.

Now is the time we can do the good works of hugging babies and caring for our loved ones. Before cancers like Alzheimer's rob other of joy as well as our own selves

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Eccl.9:5-7
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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#80
Great blessing parents that plant the seeds.. You never know God could as a work of His faith faithfully cause new life as growth..?

When did you begin believing God as a work of God who is not our fleshly parents? Christ is not divided?

David, like John the Baptist or like Jacob that were reckoned from the womb. . . acknowledging the work of the Spirit that worked in them .

The lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world (the 6 days he did work).rested on the 7th, the rest we do have when we mix faith in what we see or hear.. That work was demonstrated much later. . . two thousand years ago. The names were written in two books that will be compared on the last day .

When he calls us or awakens us it depends on whether or not the "name" is written in the Lambs book of eternal life.

Jacob had his wake up call when he wrestled with God. God changed his name to Israel (a born again name )a word that denotes God with him, enabling him to prevail when wrestling against flesh and blood (the temporal things seen)

Not simply the book of life (temporal) One erasable the other eternal ink. (Indelible )

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the "foundation of the world".


Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
garee,
I don't understand your questions. To me, children simply believe what they are told. That has been my experience.