AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[Karraster]

Okay, first of all calm down and have some tea. What feast saved you? what law changed you? answer please? Did the the ten commandments awaken you? Tell me brother what changed your life?

I assure you I am calm, I wish you could believe me on that, in fact I had a wonderful day, I hope you did also.

There are many beliefs within Christian faith these days. When I was young I was raised to think the commandments (10) were good, and we kept them, except Sabbath, because we thought the Bible said it was changed. We went to Church on Sunday.

It was last year I saw that I should keep Sabbath. I do not condemn anyone if they don't, but it is for me. I believe in Jesus more than I ever have in my life, and want to be as much like Him as I can. Do you understand that I am a very flawed person? I am so far from perfect I can't find the line to stand in for perfect. But I love my Messiah and want to live as much as I can the way He lived.

Now I see a world far different than when I was a girl. Back then, even if you didn't obey the 10 commandments you didn't belittle those who did. These days it seems the more you try to live Christlike, the more ridicule you get from, not unbelievers, but from believers!! That blows my mind how much the world has changed in half a century.

Why do you speak so roughly to me or anyone who wants to live their lives as much as possible the way Messiah did? I do not understand. I don't want rude conversation, if it comes to that I won't say more.

 

[RedTent]

Tent, is your faith in stuff you do or is it in the cross. If its in stuff you do then you need to get saved. It didn't save King David did it?

If you study all scripture, you will find that scripture never tells unsaved people what to do. They are dead in their sin, not under God. Doing without the cross gets no one anywhere.

Scripture also tells us that after we are saved we look to the cross for directions, and we have absolute faith in all of the cross. If our faith is so puny that we can't follow it with any doing, according to scripture, it is dead.

If I have faith is what I do instead of the doing coming from faith, then it is the same as the unsaved people. I must not take my salvation upon myself by doing, but by repentance and following Jesus.

 

[Deadtosin]

I assure you I am calm, I wish you could believe me on that, in fact I had a wonderful day, I hope you did also.

There are many beliefs within Christian faith these days. When I was young I was raised to think the commandments (10) were good, and we kept them, except Sabbath, because we thought the Bible said it was changed. We went to Church on Sunday.

It was last year I saw that I should keep Sabbath. I do not condemn anyone if they don't, but it is for me. I believe in Jesus more than I ever have in my life, and want to be as much like Him as I can. Do you understand that I am a very flawed person? I am so far from perfect I can't find the line to stand in for perfect. But I love my Messiah and want to live as much as I can the way He lived.

Now I see a world far different than when I was a girl. Back then, even if you didn't obey the 10 commandments you didn't belittle those who did. These days it seems the more you try to live Christlike, the more ridicule you get from, not unbelievers, but from believers!! That blows my mind how much the world has changed in half a century.

Why do you speak so roughly to me or anyone who wants to live their lives as much as possible the way Messiah did? I do not understand. I don't want rude conversation, if it comes to that I won't say more.

rest easy sister nobody should speak rough with you. Anyone who would even find themselves accidentally typing that way should slow down. Breathe, delete and retype

 

[danschance]

Who wrote the ten commandments ?

Jesus Christ wrote the 10 comandments. Christians in the new covenant are under the law of Christ as Paul himself said he was under the law of Christ, not the Mosaic law.

19For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1Cor 9

 

[danschance]

Jesus isn't going to kick anyone out on judgment day for obeying the Sabbath but he might kick someone out who doesn't.

Actually, Paul says that those who are engaged in the Mosaic law and think they are justified by the Mosaic law will be severed from Christ. So if one is engaging in the sabbath and feel God is happy with them for doing so they might be in hot water with God, but that depends largely on one's motivations.

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:4

 

[Angela53510]

Angela, I think that you have a serious misunderstanding of your God, and you are using individual verses without the whole of God's purpose for us to reach that, and I know from experience that once a mind is stuck in this nothing of scripture will help! And you have great knowledge of scripture.

You need to study Galatians from the point of view of all you know of God. If you read that Paul teaches that all of Moses has to be gotten rid of, even though that would not be in keeping with all the rest of scripture, you are lost as far as understanding truth.

When scripture points out that God is God and it is not our works that God performs His forgiving wonders, it is not God telling us that works told of in the law is wrong, and God says He doesn't want us to have anything more to do with working.

And when God says the new covenant makes the old one obsolete, to read that as God saying He makes a big sweeping black out of obsoleting what God has spoken and all He is obsolete is not right, we have to go into scripture to find out just what it is that is obsolete.

You are always complaining about the scriptures I tell you of, because I give you ones that explain yours and you don't like it. Before, you wanted me to copy the bible for you and not say what it says.

Our problem is that you feel scripture is mainly in the NT, and we must not see the NT repeating the OT, and my problem with you is that I think all of scripture has the same story, centering on salvation through the blood of Christ, and you see it as NT getting rid of much of the Old (obsolete).

I respect that you are an older person, and use the internet. But you obviously have not read my post you commented on, nor post #27, which I was told was TOO HARD to understand by another member.

In post #27, I quoted long passages of Scripture. In this post you commented on I clearly said:

Since you need it simple, I will keep it simple. The Bible needs to be read in context of passages and books, pulling out individual verses is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. So one more time, for those who don't read the Bible.

That was the opening paragraph of my post! I get context. And context means the whole Bible. The problem is Redtent, you do not get context. You forget the whole of the New Covenant, which is actually the real name for the New Testament. I wish you would read the Bible, since you don't seem to read any passages at all, by your posting, other than Psalm 119, which is the ONLY verse you post! You are stuck in one verse, in one Psalm.

I read the Psalms every day, I am in a Bible study with pastors, missionaries and Seminary professors as we go through Psalms looking at each verses. I read the Old Covenant, because it points to the New Covenant.

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, [SUP]32[/SUP]not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord." Jeremiah 31:31-32

Please read these Bible passages! It is not me that wants to get rid of the Old Covenant, it is the BIBLE that says the Old Covenant is obsolete!

"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13

"Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant." Hebrews 9:15

RedTent, read the Bible. You need to read Hebrews, since you are so caught in this Hebrew Roots lie, or this thing you think you discovered in Psalm 119, which overwrites the entire work of Christ on the cross.

Christ's work on the cross MAKES THE OLD COVENANT OBSOLETE!!

I hope that Redtent will see it and see that I am talking about the Bible, not something I made up!

PS. I have read a lot of the Old Covenant in Hebrew. I have studied it deeply. I love the Old Covenant, because it is the unveiling of God's entrance into history with the incarnation of Jesus. I have read the Old Covenant over 50 times, in 2 languages completely and major parts in Hebrew. Do not accuse me of not reading or understanding the Old Covenant again!! For your information, I got A+s in Old Testament Survey and in an in depth study of Deuteronomy, by the world renowned scholar Dan Block, who wrote most of the commentaries available today on Deuteronomy and many other texts, and speaks Masoretics Hebrew like a first language. I have also taken Bible Backgrounds (another A+) which studies the history of all the events around the Old Testament.

Redtent, you need to read Hebrews.
Redtent, a simple reading of Hebrews would show you that you are wrong in your theology.
Redtent, Galatians is the book an angry Paul wrote to the Galatians who were so quickly deserting Christ to follow the Judiazers, the circumcisers! He wrote the book without any thanks or praise because they were apostate. They had gone back to being Jews, instead of accepting that the Old Covenant was done, complete, abolished and obsolete!!

The intro to Galatians:
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— [SUP]7 [/SUP]not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you,let him be accursed. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? " Gal. 3:1-3

"So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, [SUP]26 [/SUP]for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Gal. 3:24-26

 

[Kerry]

If you study all scripture, you will find that scripture never tells unsaved people what to do. They are dead in their sin, not under God. Doing without the cross gets no one anywhere.

Scripture also tells us that after we are saved we look to the cross for directions, and we have absolute faith in all of the cross. If our faith is so puny that we can't follow it with any doing, according to scripture, it is dead.

If I have faith is what I do instead of the doing coming from faith, then it is the same as the unsaved people. I must not take my salvation upon myself by doing, but by repentance and following Jesus.

If your faith is in what you do (law) then you are no better than a sinner and God will not recognize you. The only thing He accepts is the cross and nothing else.

 

[Zinzerio]

Thank you redtent for sharing your sabbath that was really nice reading and i was thinking similar to you

I was thinking a person could go a whole week week without breaking a commandment and then i thought about how not breaking a commandment on the sabbath day could help you do that.

I was thinking of all the times i have come in here and i have always done my best and up-most to keep the peace on the sabbath (Saturday) when topics come up i generally keep out of trouble like for instance on that satarday i really do try my best to keep the peace, and that is even when some discussion have got way out of hand,
But then i think how come i don't always do this ? and then it hits i forget i need the lord to help me to love my neighbor,
now this next bit i don't want it to seem that i have a valid argument for not loving your enemy but did god make it a commandment to also love you enemy? this is where it gets a bit tricky for me and the reason is we see many scripture about things that say stay away etc and i wonder if its me again i forget to pray then whenever i come in contact with people who who don't share my beliefs, i worry a bit that my beliefs could be floored because of how i here many people say otherwise.

like i often think that those who work on a satarday dont get feelings of guilt because i remember the scriptures that say your yor farther is always watching you and i aslo think when Jesus healed on the sabbath and i pray i think stuff like a mother looking after her baby always working but always praying,

And this is when i feel comfort in my heart that the lord knows i have much confusion at time because i ask the same questions i ask here, I often think i need to apply this everday and i know that this is the only i can be in peace because i remember Jesus say to peter when they stoned Jesus, Jesus said to peter turn the other cheek and i remember the scripture that say get up and walk. I also remember the scripture that say blessed are the peacemakers And i remember the scriptures that say forgive those who trespass against you.

In the real worlds it different i am normally ok but in cyber world i get my spirit tested like never before in the real world i have good relationship all the time i here the lord talking to me and the lord tell me most of the time and i speak most of the time i smile to people i get nice smiles back and im happy a smile to me makes my day every day.

With this i know i have the word of god in me because every day i come here to fellowship even know there are some who don't want to fellowship with me i still come here and i still see nice people here and so i dont look back i read a prayer or a thread and then i go to bed which ir right about now gb

 

[RedTent]

Now I see a world far different than when I was a girl. Back then, even if you didn't obey the 10 commandments you didn't belittle those who did. These days it seems the more you try to live Christlike, the more ridicule you get from, not unbelievers, but from believers!! That blows my mind how much the world has changed in half a century.

Why do you speak so roughly to me or anyone who wants to live their lives as much as possible the way Messiah did? I do not understand. I don't want rude conversation, if it comes to that I won't say more.

This is happening to everyone in the church today who try to live for Jesus. I have been told that the ten commandments were cancelled because they don't save, and somehow that reason jumps to that it is not right to believe in the salvation God offers, and also believe in including the ten commandments in our living for Jesus.

 

[Kerry]

Keep thinking. until you subside to the cross your work is in vain. The cross is the only thing that God will accept. They overcame by the word of their testimony and the blood of the lamb. Works were not included.

 

[Karraster]

rest easy sister nobody should speak rough with you. Anyone who would even find themselves accidentally typing that way should slow down. Breathe, delete and retype

Thank you. So nice to see chivalry these days it is rare.

 

[Deadtosin]

[h=3]Luke 10:26-28[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

[Karraster]

This is happening to everyone in the church today who try to live for Jesus. I have been told that the ten commandments were cancelled because they don't save, and somehow that reason jumps to that it is not right to believe in the salvation God offers, and also believe in including the ten commandments in our living for Jesus.

The Bible tells us the world will become very hostile at the last days, worse than at any time before. It is startling though, to witness how far the world has fallen with more rapid succession as it goes. The divide will get wider as we watch prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes. It's both exciting and sorrowful and scary, but we know who is in control. We will hold on to Him, and He will hold us.

 

[RedTent]

Thank you redtent for sharing your sabbath that was really nice reading and i was thinking similar to you

I was thinking a person could go a whole week week without breaking a commandment and then i thought about how not breaking a commandment on the sabbath day could help you do that.

I was thinking of all the times i have come in here and i have always done my best and up-most to keep the peace on the sabbath (Saturday) when topics come up i generally keep out of trouble like for instance on that satarday i really do try my best to keep the peace, and that is even when some discussion have got way out of hand,
But then i think how come i don't always do this ? and then it hits i forget i need the lord to help me to love my neighbor,
now this next bit i don't want it to seem that i have a valid argument for not loving your enemy but did god make it a commandment to also love you enemy? this is where it gets a bit tricky for me and the reason is we see many scripture about things that say stay away etc and i wonder if its me again i forget to pray then whenever i come in contact with people who who don't share my beliefs, i worry a bit that my beliefs could be floored because of how i here many people say otherwise.

like i often think that those who work on a satarday dont get feelings of guilt because i remember the scriptures that say your yor farther is always watching you and i aslo think when Jesus healed on the sabbath and i pray i think stuff like a mother looking after her baby always working but always praying,

And this is when i feel comfort in my heart that the lord knows i have much confusion at time because i ask the same questions i ask here, I often think i need to apply this everday and i know that this is the only i can be in peace because i remember Jesus say to peter when they stoned Jesus, Jesus said to peter turn the other cheek and i remember the scripture that say get up and walk. I also remember the scripture that say blessed are the peacemakers And i remember the scriptures that say forgive those who trespass against you.

In the real worlds it different i am normally ok but in cyber world i get my spirit tested like never before in the real world i have good relationship all the time i here the lord talking to me and the lord tell me most of the time and i speak most of the time i smile to people i get nice smiles back and im happy a smile to me makes my day every day.

With this i know i have the word of god in me because every day i come here to fellowship even know there are some who don't want to fellowship with me i still come here and i still see nice people here and so i dont look back i read a prayer or a thread and then i go to bed which ir right about now gb

Isn't it wonderful to have the Lord!! I think God wants us to grow in knowledge and understanding, but He knows we see darkly and so God looks at our humbleness in our search for truth. There is much missing the mark in all of us, but when we go to Him for cleansing, even of what we don't know of, we are to accept that God truly cleanses us and we can start brand new tomorrow.

I have a dear young friend that I have a hard time communicating with. It is as if there is a barrier between us, although we are both say we are Christian. She says that she is trying to find herself, and goes to a psychiatrist to help her. When I speak of what God wants of us, she will say that everyone is different and what is truth for one is not truth for another. I finally have figured out the barrier between our communication. Her goal is to find her truth and my goal is to find and be part of God's truth. It isn't the differences in understanding that separates us so much as the differences in our goals.

I think that is what God sees in us.

 

[RedTent]

Keep thinking. until you subside to the cross your work is in vain. The cross is the only thing that God will accept. They overcame by the word of their testimony and the blood of the lamb. Works were not included.

I still do not see how you can exclude an entire segment of scripture as not fitting in with all others. Have you used the concordance to see all scripture has to say about works? Have you read that Christ will return and judge us by our works? You have learned so well all that scripture points to that works won't do, and what we cannot expect from them. That is good, we all should know those things. Then why can't you include what works WILL do, and how we are to use them?

 

[Karraster]

Isn't it wonderful to have the Lord!! I think God wants us to grow in knowledge and understanding, but He knows we see darkly and so God looks at our humbleness in our search for truth. There is much missing the mark in all of us, but when we go to Him for cleansing, even of what we don't know of, we are to accept that God truly cleanses us and we can start brand new tomorrow.

I have a dear young friend that I have a hard time communicating with. It is as if there is a barrier between us, although we are both say we are Christian. She says that she is trying to find herself, and goes to a psychiatrist to help her. When I speak of what God wants of us, she will say that everyone is different and what is truth for one is not truth for another. I finally have figured out the barrier between our communication. Her goal is to find her truth and my goal is to find and be part of God's truth. It isn't the differences in understanding that separates us so much as the differences in our goals.

I think that is what God sees in us.

Just wanted to say that the love in your posts always shines. your comment about your friend called to mind the verse about what love is..love is patient and kind, does not seek it's own, always thinks the best....I am paraphrasing but you know the verse I am sure. You're a blessing Redtent

 

[AslanII]

Second Question now is this they where told to obey the commandments which included the sabbath day so could a spiritual sacrifice actually be a day in private with the lord a day you keep holy and a day you don't have any fowl language ?

No spiritual sacrifice is needed as Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. As a Christian everyday should be without foul language. The purpose of our lives are not to keep the sabbath or the laws, it is to have a relationship with God and then we will keep the law kind of by accident. Because we love God we will automatically try to do what pleases Him.

 

[AslanII]

I still do not see how you can exclude an entire segment of scripture as not fitting in with all others. Have you used the concordance to see all scripture has to say about works? Have you read that Christ will return and judge us by our works? You have learned so well all that scripture points to that works won't do, and what we cannot expect from them. That is good, we all should know those things. Then why can't you include what works WILL do, and how we are to use them?

I agree. We are saved by the cross, and by our works people will know that we follow Jesus. It is not either or. It is the and + the also

 

[RedTent]

Actually, Paul says that those who are engaged in the Mosaic law and think they are justified by the Mosaic law will be severed from Christ. So if one is engaging in the sabbath and feel God is happy with them for doing so they might be in hot water with God, but that depends largely on one's motivations.

We all know that if we sin, it is through Christ we have forgiveness. If we don't go to Christ with our sin, we sever ourselves from Him.

What has that to do with cancelling law scripture? That is only one of the many aspects of law.

If you read of the segments that make up anything you would never say that one part of a substance makes up the whole of it. One aspect of law is that it will not save and if we rely on it for that it severs us from what does do the work of salvation. So?

 

[Karraster]

dan keeps saying we keep commandments instead of accept what Christ has done for us. We keep telling dan we keep commandments because of what Christ has done for us. Wash rinse repeat.