An obvious contradiction?

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Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
322
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#41
Deuteronomy 24 allows for divorce and remarriage. When we turn to
Luke 16:18 we see the opposite

Using the ESV version because it’s the most obvious.

17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. - Luke 16:17-18

I know this is a hot topic for some. Many will say God hates divorce and I agree. Many will say Moses allowed for the hardness of your hearts but it wasn’t that way from the beginning and I agree. But trying to stay on track here I’d like to discuss the obvious contradiction. The take away from Deuteronomy 24 is that divorce and remarriage is allowed and then according to the ESV Jesus states it’s easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void and then he voids the law.
The Laws didn't pass away, God's grace superseded the laws and God has mercy.
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
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#42
Everyone who marries a divorced woman is guilty of adultery. Everyone means everyone.
Adultery does not mean you can not be saved. Whosoever means that everyone can be saved.
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
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#43
Scripture says no one can be saved through the Law,
That would be putting the cart in front of the horse. Saved people follow the law of God to the best of their ability. David rejoiced in the Law because He knew that the Law was given for his benefit. That is why David loved the Law. "Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long." (Psalm 119:97)If we do what the word of God says to do then we will get the results we are told we will receive.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,659
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#44
Adultery does not mean you can not be saved. Whosoever means that everyone can be saved.
that is true those who have repented from committing the act of adultery can be saved. Those who practice it are also known as
" Adulterers" And that is what Jesus is addressing they will not inherit the Kingdom of God
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
1,137
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#45
God's grace superseded the laws and God has mercy.
God's grace is a active force that works in us so that we are able to keep the Law of God. We can not keep the law in our flesh. This has to be work of God in us.
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
1,137
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#46
that is true those who have repented from committing the act of adultery can be saved.
Do you mean they have to get a divorce in order to get saved?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,565
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#47
That would be putting the cart in front of the horse. Saved people follow the law of God to the best of their ability. David rejoiced in the Law because He knew that the Law was given for his benefit. That is why David loved the Law. "Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long." (Psalm 119:97)If we do what the word of God says to do then we will get the results we are told we will receive.
Following the Law means stoning adulterers, sacrificing animals, and going to Jerusalem three times a year. Saved people don't do those things. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "follow the law"?
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
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#48
Following the Law means stoning adulterers
That is exactly what Jesus said: "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." (John8:7) Problem is everyone is a sinner so they would all have to stone each other and there would be no one left.
sacrificing animals, and going to Jerusalem three times a year.
There is no temple. So we can not keep the literal law. So we have to look at the archetype and what the law spiritually represents. I know pastors with only two years of Bible college that do a very good job of explaining what every detail in the Temple means and how we apply this to our life today.

"Would the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" (Micah6:7,8)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,565
7,356
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#49
That is exactly what Jesus said: "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." (John8:7) Problem is everyone is a sinner so they would all have to stone each other and there would be no one left.
There is no temple. So we can not keep the literal law. So we have to look at the archetype and what the law spiritually represents. I know pastors with only two years of Bible college that do a very good job of explaining what every detail in the Temple means and how we apply this to our life today.

"Would the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" (Micah6:7,8)
My point is that striving to follow the Law is not what believers in Christ should be doing.
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
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#50
My point is that striving to follow the Law is not what believers in Christ should be doing.
We do not have to strive to follow the law. When we become born again we are a new creation in Christ. Old things have passed away and all things are new.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,026
4,341
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#52
It clearly does. Why? Because they’ve replaced the phrase put away with the word divorce. That’s the key, the term put away Jesus used in all verses is not interchangeable with the word divorce.
While the Greek word ἀπολύω literally means to set free or release, in the context of marriage it means divorce.

Strong's Concordance
apoluó: to set free, release
Original Word: ἀπολύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apoluó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-oo'-o)
Definition: to set free, release

Usage: I release, let go, send away, divorce, am rid; mid: I depart.

Anyhow, since we are on this subject, here is the Bible teaching about marriage and divorce:

1. Marriage is ordained by God and between a man and a woman only
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Gen 2:21-24)
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Mt 19:4-6)

2. Marriage is until death of a spouse
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth;
but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. (1 Cor 7:39)
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. (Rom 7:2,3)

2. Marriage is honorable in all and the norm for all
Marriage is honourable in all
, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (Heb 13:4)
Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD. (Prov 18:22)
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. (1 Cor 7:1,2)
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. (1 Tim 5:14)

3. The single state is the exception, and forbidding to marry is demonic
His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Mt 19:10-12)
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Tim 4:1-3)

4. Christians are to marry Christians, not unbelievers
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Cor 6:14-16)

5. God hates divorce
For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away
: for [one] covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously. (Mal 2:16)
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
(1 Cor 7:10,11)

6. God allows divorce for one reason only
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house. (Deut 24:1)
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. (Mt 19:9)

7. God allows the separation of unbelieving spouses from believers
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace. (1 Cor 7:15)
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
211
116
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#53
While the Greek word ἀπολύω literally means to set free or release, in the context of marriage it means divorce.
So then you would agree with this translation?

"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. - Luke 16:18 ESV
 

JohnR7

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2019
1,137
247
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#54
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. (1 Cor 7:39)
It was different for the Priest that served in the temple: Holiness Required of Priests "The woman he marries must be a virgin. He is not to marry a widow, a divorced woman, or one defiled by prostitution. He is to marry a virgin from his own people, so that he does not defile his offspring among his people, for I am the LORD who sanctifies him.’” (Leviticus 21:13,14,15)

If you talk to the Mormons they believe in the Melchizedek Priesthood that is even higher (stricter) then the Leviticus priesthood.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#55
Deuteronomy 24 allows for divorce and remarriage. When we turn to
Luke 16:18 we see the opposite

Using the ESV version because it’s the most obvious.

17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. - Luke 16:17-18

I know this is a hot topic for some. Many will say God hates divorce and I agree. Many will say Moses allowed for the hardness of your hearts but it wasn’t that way from the beginning and I agree. But trying to stay on track here I’d like to discuss the obvious contradiction. The take away from Deuteronomy 24 is that divorce and remarriage is allowed and then according to the ESV Jesus states it’s easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void and then he voids the law.
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

I'm not sure I understand you correctly but Deuteronomy does not say he can marry her again?

This is the same reason God couldn't take back Israel. He gave them a bill of divorce... but the problem is He said He will take them again as His bride. This is why He had to die or else He would break His own law and that is impossible.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
211
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#56
Ok. I can’t get one person to be honest about the clear contradiction in the ESV which is kind of unsettling to be honest. Against my better judgement I’ll explain the situation a little.

Deut. 24 allows for divorce and remarriage. The woman is to be given a certificate of divorce, which she keeps and she is sent away to remarry if she chooses.

Deuteronomy 24:1-1 KJV When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

You see in these verses the put away and the divorce, the Shalach (put away) and the Keriythuth (divorce certificate). Two separate words to be used in conjunction but not interchangeable.

Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

You’ll notice here the Lord says where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement whom I have put away... The fact is there there was no bill of divorcement only the put away, the separation due to transgression.

“Though the sufferings of Judah were the necessary result of sin, no certificate of divorce or sale to creditors occurred... although there would be a time of separation”
MSB

You must understand the process of the marriage, separation and divorce at the time of Jesus’s ministry. If a woman was guilty of fornication she could be sent away without the divorce certificate. Not having a divorce certificate would keep her from claiming benefits of the katubah “prearranged alimony” and would also prohibit her from being remarried.

So when the Pharisees came to test Jesus on this matter, seeking to ensnare him they asked is it lawful to put away (apoluo) your wife for any reason.

Matthew 19:3 KJV The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

They’re asking is if it’s ok to send away (apoluo) the wife for any reason, notice the absence of divorce certificate (apostasion).

Matthew 19:9 KJV And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Jesus basically says if you send away (apoluo) your wife for any reason other than fornication you’re guilty of adultery and if you marry a woman who is put away you’re guilty of adultery. Notice the absence of the divorce certificate (apostasion) in Jesus’s response.

Why is it adultery if you send away your wife and marry another for a reason other than fornication? Because you separated under false pretenses and or without a divorce certificate.

What we’re witnessing here is Jesus addressing the manipulation of the Duet 24 law. The problem was the abandoning of the wife without a proper qualifications and or certificate. Why would men do this?

There’s many reasons but the main one is money. You see, the Jewish betrothal included what’s called a katubah, a “prenup”. The katubah was prearranged by the father of the bride, the bride and the groom. The katubah was only payable to a bride if she had a divorce certificate. If she committed fornication she wasn’t entitled to to the divorce certificate, the “alimony” or to remarry for that matter.

So you see, Jesus didn’t change the Duet 24 law he just elevates it as he does with the adulterous and murderous heart statements. He’s basically saying if you manipulate the law you’re guilty of adultery.

Other fun facts.
According to the lexicon the word apostasion: divorce, divorce certificate is only used 3 times in the NT, not once by Jesus.

The word apoluo: put away, dismiss... is used 89 times in the NT, not once as divorce. It’s used in places like when Jesus dismisses the crowds and sends out his disciples...

1 Corinthians 7:27-27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Loosed in the Greek lusis: a loosing that is specifically divorced.

Are you divorced from a wife? Seek not a wife but if you do marry it’s not a sin.

When you mistranslate or misinterpret apoluo to mean apostasion you basically claim that Jesus voids the Duet 24 law that allows for divorce and remarriage and cause all sorts of whacky no remarriage doctrines and scripture twister.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#57
The thing is (even today) the Jews manipulate the law to suit them.

This is why Jesus said:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
211
116
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#58
The thing is (even today) the Jews manipulate the law to suit them.

This is why Jesus said:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
I agree, and Christians do the same to the scripture as well, almost exhibiting a pharisaic type behavior.

I heard a podcast with John Piper where a father wrote in to ask if his young daughter, who was divorced by her husband and he went on to remarry another woman, if she was allowed to remarry. John Piper said no, she’s to remain single from the young age of 22 or whatever she was till the day she dies, then he went on trying to explain it through all sorts of scripture twisting. He’s laid this undeserved, non scriptural burden on this woman teaching a forbiddance to marry.

How do people like Piper who teach this doctrine ignore Paul’s teaching to the Corinthians?

1 Corinthians 7:27 KJV Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1 Corinthians 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Paul is writing to the church at Corinth which had gentile pagans who had all sorts of weird practices before conversion. He basically says, are you married seek not divorce. Are you divorced seek not to be married but if you do it’s not a sin. These people were pagan, they didn’t follow Mosaic law before conversion, they were married and separated in all sorts of non biblical ways prior to conversion and Paul says it’s not a sin for them to remarry.

I understand how some reach this conclusion by misinterpreting Jesus’s words, misinterpreting apoluo to mean apostasion but how then do they get past Paul with this view? 🤷‍♂️
Scripture twister, is the only way and it’s a painful dance to observe especially when it’s a respectable teacher like Piper.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#59
We are busy "discussing" :ROFL: the crucifixion of Christ and if it was on the Wednesday or the Friday. Now scripture should dictate doctrine 100% of the time but people interpret the same verse 3 or 4 different ways... and my Pastor's view are being defended as if my life depend on it. This is why I believe the Bible is such a powerful document. From it 66 000 denominations were established and by the grace of God we can still make it to heaven.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
439
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#60
Well the fact remains that none of the OT saints were called "sons of God". That term in the OT applied only to angels. So your reference to Genesis 6 is really to fallen angels who had intercourse with human women. And because this was unacceptable to God, they are called "the angels which kept not their first estate" or "the angels which sinned". As a result they are kept imprisoned in Tartarus. They are also mentioned in the context of sexual immorality.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)
Like John 8:44 says, its your lie so tell it anyway you want to.