You might find my response 'strange' but nonetheless I am in agreement.
The only thing I'm finding 'strange' about your response, is any comment whatsoever about what I'd put further down in my post (the part about the beast [indiv. man aspect] and the false prophet and the part about how "THEY SHALL BE TORMENTED for ever and ever [/unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" which phrase
always means, "forever" as we use the term, meaning, forever without end).
What are your thoughts about this, and what I'd put there (about how their "committing sins" could only have lasted for the length of their lifetimes, yet here we see them "tormented unto the ages of the ages [i.e. forever, without end]." Why is that, given your previous reasonings??
Let me explain. There are those of the belief that those who are the unsaved are thrown into a literal Lake of Fire. And in that Lake of literal burning flames the unsaved are TORTURED for eternity.
That it is the belief of some people.
in Jeremiah, in connection with Baal worshippers who burned alive their own sons and daughters, God said: "[such a thing] never entered my mind."
Notwithstanding what God has said, namely, that He wouldn't BURN people alive for even a few MINUTES i.e. the time it would take to destroy someone, those persons believe that He will burn people alive for ETERNITY.
That's their belief - not mine. And it seems that some of those revel in that belief and to justify their position they defend themselves with appeals to "God is just etc" as if their interpretation of Scripture is what God intended readers to believe. It never, it seems, for even 1 second, to have crossed their minds, despite all arguments to the contrary, that they may just possibly be wrong.
Below is [mostly] what I had written up prior to reading your response (tweaking it only slightly since then):
Consider:
Luke 16... [Jesus speaking... about what happens at the time of persons / individuals
dying]
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And
in hell [/hades] he lift up his eyes,
being in torments [G931; pl.; related to the G928 word], and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented [/I am suffering; G3600] in this flame [G5395].
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things:
but now he is
comforted,
and thou art tormented [/you are suffering G3600].
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them,
lest they also come into this place of torment [G931; related to the G928 word].
[ ^
that commences at the time of
death, for individuals; IOW, "time" on earth still exists, for others... i.e. his brethren; So even this context mentions "[tormented/suffering]
IN THIS FLAME"... whatever this
"flame" means (which includes the idea of "torments [G931 (
related to G928)]" and "suffering [G3600]"), it lasts clear till the time "hell/hades delivered up the dead..." at the GWTj time-slot Rev20]
Then (further),
"Hell / hades" will be
later (at the GWTj time-slot) cast into the lake of fire, as well as those who will have
come from there (i.e. the unsaved dead; Rev20:13,14,15); The beast and the false prophet will have been in the lake of fire for the thousand years already by that point (so far), and Satan will be loosed from his prison to be cast into the lake of fire at that point, where (as it says), "
they [plural] shall be tormented day and night
for ever and ever [/unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" which underlined phrase,
everywhere it is used (
in every case, even in Revelation), ALWAYS MEANS "forever" (as we normally define the term), that is, forever without end.
All those of whom it is said "[and death]
and hell/hades[/U] delivered up the dead which were in them" are all of the unsaved dead (i.e. those whose names were not found written in 'the Book OF LIFE') and these will be cast into the lake of fire also at that point (at the GWTj point in time; i.e. when Satan will be cast into the lake of fire). "Death" and "hell /hades" will also be cast into the lake of fire at that point...
IOW, this is when "death" itself ('the last enemy') will be "destroyed [G2673; 'to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative'... 'to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish']" 1Cor15:26 (meaning, "the SECOND death" is NOT "death" which will have just been put out of business permanently at that point / destroyed [G2673]... "the SECOND death" is the lake of fire Rev20:14, 21:8). "Death" will have been put out of business at that point (no one suffering the lake of fire will ever employ "death"... the only thing available is "the SECOND death [i.e. 'the lake of fire']"--there is no escaping out of there
by means of dying [/death]... as it will have been officially put out-of-business, at that point (at the GWTj time-slot).
Additionally, where Revelation mentions "the smoke of their torment..." and "they have no rest day and night" (Rev14), this also expresses the forever-ness "of their torment" (speaking specifically here of those who worship the beast and his image and receive the mark of his name / his mark... and the "smoke" going up/ascending
from that particular source "for ever and ever [/unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"... i.e. forever, without end)
[And note that, at the earlier time-slot ("at the end [singular] of the age [singular]" i.e. at His Second Coming time-slot) it says re: the angels [/reapers] that they are to "collect ye first the TARES, and bind them in bundles TO BURN [G2618] them..." Matt13:30, and v.40 "...TARES are gathered and BURNED [/consumed G2618] in the FIRE [G4442]..." and v.42 "And shall cast them into the FURNACE [G2575] OF the FIRE [G4442]"... "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (<--a phrase used when referencing things which occur at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot, not the later GWTj time-slot, btw); I'm just mentioning these because of the same thing said at the top of this post... that whatever "[tormented / suffering]
IN THIS FLAME" refers to, we know it involves "suffering"... "being in TORMENTS [G931 (related to the G928 word)]"]
Any thoughts?
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