and you call yourself a christian?

[Josh]

I have never been with a JW to know their teachings but this of kselbly is real strange. I do agree that christmas was actually a baby of Catholics and Paganism marriage trying to get a centre ground toworship together. Though i do celebrate i do not worship my God through that holiday.

The next thing, if JW believe in the bible, kselby can you check on the teachings of Peter who was left with the keys of the Kimgdom.

In Acts 2:38 - 39 He said " Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The promise was not for those who were present there but for all those God will call they have to go thro this.
Am just amused of your posts course it seem you dont regard Jesus as God you just see Him as a mere Prophet, He was God and everything was created by Him and for Him

St John 1:3 " All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He was the word St John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that Word became fresh St John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[kselby]

hey josh how are you going?....well no i dont belive that jesus was a mere prophet...no i believe he was gods son...perfect. He came to the earth to offer a ransom for the sins of mankind, and to teach us how we are suppose to live....what i dont believe in is a trinity....and i know you listed a few common scriptures which are often used to support the trinity doctrine.....but i find that these scriptures are often taken out of context....you know it is easy to prove something by using scriptures that seem to support your point but try proving other scriptures wrong...now thats a harder task...i only ask that you perhaps read these scriptures and prove to yourself that they too support a trinity...start by reading proverbs 8:22-36...you can read the whole chapter if you like but look how jesus himself is speaking..you judge for yourself.

 

[Josh]

I dont Believe in trinity Kselby. No do I fight with it the way many do. First i believe am a triune being. Body, Spirit and Soul. Without one am not complete.
Thats what i believe God is.
He is Son of David, Son of Man and Son of God.
He is Father, Son and Holy spirit.
God above us, God with us and God in us.

If u try to put one aside its not a perfect God. It must be all to be God. Further more i dont believe in oneness that them three are in one but all these three are offices where God has worked in His plan of Redemption.

I mean:
With the Israelites and the days of OT. He was
The Father, Son of David,God above us and many more they used to refer to Him.

During the days when the word became fresh He was
Son of Man, emanuel God with us, He was the Son.

After his resurection and ascession he came back as
The Holy Ghost, Son of God, God in Us, The Comforter.

That is The way i believe it and nowhere do i believe trinity as u said. So many scriptures speak of God being one but working in different offices.
Thats the reason I do believe the name of God is THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Coz Jesus said i came in my fathers name and as it was told to Joseph in the dream the pregnancy of Mary was thro the Holy Ghost making God the father and The Holy Ghost one person and His name is Jesus Christ

 

[olivetree32]

hey josh how are you going?....well no i dont belive that jesus was a mere prophet...no i believe he was gods son...perfect. He came to the earth to offer a ransom for the sins of mankind, and to teach us how we are suppose to live....what i dont believe in is a trinity....and i know you listed a few common scriptures which are often used to support the trinity doctrine.....but i find that these scriptures are often taken out of context....you know it is easy to prove something by using scriptures that seem to support your point but try proving other scriptures wrong...now thats a harder task...i only ask that you perhaps read these scriptures and prove to yourself that they too support a trinity...start by reading proverbs 8:22-36...you can read the whole chapter if you like but look how jesus himself is speaking..you judge for yourself.

i think the real issue at hand here is not weather you bake a cake for yor kids and put candles on it, that is not a big deal, you can just give a cake, and if you don't do that eighther, than that is fine, no one is condeming you for that. its your life, your choice. But the real issue is what you belive in your heart. Like is Jesus God in the flesh, and you said in one of your other posts that you did not think we were created for heaven, or somthing to that. It seems you have alot of differant beliefs, but the holy spirit is going to change you, not me, not josh but the spirit of God. Because God's word says the spirit will lead us into all truth. He is are helper. So God will help you with all this and give you the understanding you so desire.
Jhn 14:17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you
Jhn 14:26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


Jhn 15:26"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. Jhn 16:13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own [authority], but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[Peacefulcrusader]

Hi Kselby. I see that you're a Jehova's Witness. You ask why this makes you a non-Christian. I thought that it was quite elementary that Jehova's Witnesses are not accepted by any Christian group, and that the JW themselves don't accept any others as Christians. Isn't this correct?

 

[kselby]

peacefulcrusader.......well i dont know what other religious groups think of Jehovahs witnesses....i guess they dont like us much(from the comments ive been getting)and as for accepting others as christians...well i dont think i look down on them if thats what you mean.I think alot of religious leaders are going to have their judgment with jehovah ...i feel pity for those who follow these teachers...believing in what they say to be the word of god.....sometimes it is the blind leading the blind....which is why i have raised the topics i have raised because they touch on many of the teachings which i believe to be false...im not trying to change anyones belief system...im just asking that you take another look and see if you can prove that what you believe is infact the truth.

 

[olivetree32]

peacefulcrusader.......well i dont know what other religious groups think of Jehovahs witnesses....i guess they dont like us much(from the comments ive been getting)and as for accepting others as christians...well i dont think i look down on them if thats what you mean.I think alot of religious leaders are going to have their judgment with jehovah ...i feel pity for those who follow these teachers...believing in what they say to be the word of god.....sometimes it is the blind leading the blind....which is why i have raised the topics i have raised because they touch on many of the teachings which i believe to be false...im not trying to change anyones belief system...im just asking that you take another look and see if you can prove that what you believe is infact the truth.

hi Kselby, i sure hope your reading the scriptures i have been posting through this thread. you have not responded to any of the scirptures. i think that is interesting Kselby. And no one is here to condeme you, but you have in fact entered a christian chat, and people here are one, going to share what the bilbe says in here, and two hopfully share the love of Christ with you as well.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I usually don't waste time arguing scripture with people in cults eg JW's. They always twist the Word of God no matter how convincing your arguments. They always have their own "scriptures" , own teachers, and they will rarely change their position even when faced with the truth because they are under an authoritarian, controlling organisation's leadership and under fear of being excommunicated and shunned, often having been mind-controlled, brainwashed etc.

 

[kselby]

im sorry you feel that way...but like i have already said i am not in fear of man....i fear god only.....Jehovahs witnesses use many different versions of the bible....i have by no means been brain washed i started learning bible truth as an adult....and before then i had looked into other religious groups but they did not feel right......im interested do you speak from experience mahoganysnail...or is that just a hint of ignorance in your post?

 

[kselby]

im surprised you didnt tell me i was going to hell.....which i dont really believe in any way,the second death ,yes , thats different....but you need to look at the bible to know about that...and there seems to be no point in doing that because youll probably say that its all been twisted to suit my beliefs....im curious to know if your copy of the bible uses gods name?....if not how can you accuse 'us' of using a twisted version of the bible ....if you ask me many of the bibles christians use today have had the name of god removed and replaced with titles so as to help support the triity doctrine.

 

[MahogonySnail]

But JW's use the New World Translation predominantly. Which is not a true bible version but an intentional editing of the bible to suit JW beliefs. For example the KJV clearly emphasises Jesus's divinity, which the NWT undermines to suit JW belief. I know how JW twist scripture because I have had lengthy discussions with JWs before and get their writing material. I compare with a real bible version eg KJV and a lot of it is plainly wrong. Neither do JW believe that the Spirit is a Person or God, and this too is twisted.

So I will and can accuse JW of twisting the Scriptures because that is exactly what they have done in the NWT and do when you try to discuss scripture with them even from a standard bible version eg KJV they don't listen but always revert back to their beloved teachings.

If you don't believe me and want to do an honest study of bible versions there are websites that have side by side comparisons of the KJV and NWT.

http://www.pnc.com.au/~fichrist/nwt.html


You'd have to ask yourself why is the NWT so different? Why don't JW's believe the KJV as it is plainly written?
Could it be possible that JW are WRONG?

 

[Peacefulcrusader]

peacefulcrusader.......well i dont know what other religious groups think of Jehovahs witnesses....i guess they dont like us much(from the comments ive been getting)and as for accepting others as christians...well i dont think i look down on them if thats what you mean.I think alot of religious leaders are going to have their judgment with jehovah ...i feel pity for those who follow these teachers...believing in what they say to be the word of god.....sometimes it is the blind leading the blind....which is why i have raised the topics i have raised because they touch on many of the teachings which i believe to be false...im not trying to change anyones belief system...im just asking that you take another look and see if you can prove that what you believe is infact the truth.

Hi again K. Selby.

I think that I can assure you that no Christian church, movement or group look upon Jehovah's Witnesses as fellow Christians. At leas this is the impression I've gotten from several years as an active Christian and through cooperation with many other churches (in my city most Christian churches cooperate all the time, except for the Catholic Church and the State controlled Lutheran Church).

It's good that you don't look down on Christians, and I can add that we don't look down on Jehovah's Witnesses either, we simply don't accept them as Christians. Our respect for their beliefs are however as good as for any others, be it Atheist or Muslim.

It seems as if we have corresponding views of each others - we both respect the other but we don't acknowledge the respective teachings. That's ok, and I can live well with this fact.

In fact, I think that it's fair of you to try to raise some of these questions which you find to be less convincing in Christian teaching. Christians here should try to give you their biblical arguments instead of getting angry of you because you believe differently. I'm sure most of us can give you many good arguments in favor of our beliefs. Although I must add that the JW rejection of Christian translations of the Bible is a problem for the discussion.

 

[imoss]

hi Kselby, i sure hope your reading the scriptures i have been posting through this thread. you have not responded to any of the scirptures. i think that is interesting Kselby. And no one is here to condeme you, but you have in fact entered a christian chat, and people here are one, going to share what the bilbe says in here, and two hopfully share the love of Christ with you as well.

Olive tree, I think that it would be impossible for kselby to comment on the scripture as she reads the new world translation & would not have Gods word in her hands... she has JW's altered scripture. and sorry Kselby but praying 4 u to review your scripture, compare it and find the truth. Praying spiritual blessings of truth upon you from our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus in the word that acknowledges Christ Jesus as our Lord and savior. Please do buy a kjv and compare... you will be shocked. God Bless U.

 

[olivetree32]

Olive tree, I think that it would be impossible for kselby to comment on the scripture as she reads the new world translation & would not have Gods word in her hands... she has JW's altered scripture. and sorry Kselby but praying 4 u to review your scripture, compare it and find the truth. Praying spiritual blessings of truth upon you from our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus in the word that acknowledges Christ Jesus as our Lord and savior. Please do buy a kjv and compare... you will be shocked. God Bless U.

Imoss, she too has posted some scripture and i will continue to post the verses as im directed by the Lord. from the way she has been speaking, it sounds like she knows her own bible, which by the way we all know is not the same as ours. so if she knows her own, than the verses im posting she can see. Its only by God's power and holy spirit that she will be changed anyways. She is here for a reason.

 

[olivetree32]

im surprised you didnt tell me i was going to hell.....which i dont really believe in any way,the second death ,yes , thats different....but you need to look at the bible to know about that...and there seems to be no point in doing that because youll probably say that its all been twisted to suit my beliefs....im curious to know if your copy of the bible uses gods name?....if not how can you accuse 'us' of using a twisted version of the bible ....if you ask me many of the bibles christians use today have had the name of god removed and replaced with titles so as to help support the triity doctrine.

Kselby, i find this very interesting that you don't belive there is a hell. If that were the case, why repent and why be born agian and give our lives to Jesus. Jesus said, repent for the kingdome of God is at hand. We repent because we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Mar 1:14Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom [fn] of God,
Mar 1:15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.Mat 4:17From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."Luk 13:3I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.Act 2:38Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy SpiritAct 3:19Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Act 8:22Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. and what do you think Jesus was saying in luke 13:3 unless you repent you will all likewise perish?

 

[Josh]

What is this Kselby you are telling us that we have removed Gods name and replaced it with titles.
Whats God name?
Do u want to tell me is Jehovah?

Its not, Jehovah means the one who lives with His family. Jehovah is a title like FATHER, SON OR HOLY GHOST
To be sure there was a time that God was not Jehovah when there was no one to call Him father. He had no family.
The same as when he was not God coz there was no one to worship Him coz God is an object of worship. There were even no Angels to worship Him. He was El Him. "The self existing one"

Jesus Himself said I came in my fathers Name but no where he is called Jehovah.
Do yu want to say JW went up and got a better teaching than that of Jesus to tell us he made some mistakes?
Which bible do you read?
Do you believe St John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." (Like JW)

That religion seems fake if you cant believe the written word can you believe the spoken one which is the original?

 

[Peacefulcrusader]

Kselby. Are you going to answer in this thread?

 

[imoss]

im sorry you feel that way imoss....yes there seems to be a few misconceptions about what Jehovahs witnesses believe...to start yes i truly do believe in jesus comming to the earth to teach .He was the great teacher...and he provided the ransom sacrifice so that we could have our sins forgiven.Did you have any specific holidays in mind that we do not celebrate?If you were talking about chistmas...well the reason behind that is scriptual and personal.Like i said i had always wanted a relationship with god even from a small child....but things like christmas confused me...i was roubled by the fact that there were so many things in the holiday of christmas which did not make sense...eg...christmas trees,santa clause...so on ....i remember making a nativity scene with my sister when we were little because i thought that it would be good to actually put the 'meaning' in what we were celebrating.as i grew up christmas meant less and less to be about the birth of jesus...and so i stopped celcbrating it.It wasn't until i was 20 and started looking into the bible that i realised that there are things about christmas that dont sit right ith the bible...such as the date 25 dec..The bible does not give a date as to when jesus was born.As a christian i would rather celebrate jesus life on earth by doing what is asked of us (ministry work,which is actually fulfillment of prophecy)Jehovahs witnesses see the time when jesus died and his resurection as the most important dates to be noted ,and this is comemorated every year...infact you will probably receive an invitation to a memorial service within the comming weeks as part of the world wide preaching work. you mentioned you have family members that are Jehovahs witnesses ...perhaps you could ask hem about one of our publications called "what does the bible really teach"It explains alot and has a appendix at the back which goes into a little more detail on things such as holidays ect.....i wont tell you how good i think it is...you read it and judge or yourself

WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR OUR RISEN LORD?????????????????? HE IS RISEN!!!!!!!!!!!! ALSO, I'm curious why there are no windows in your meeting house... Just curious for i see it as keeping out the light of God!! If JESUS is not your RISEN LORD please revise your profile so people who come in here are not MISLEAD by you in thinking you are SERIOUSLY a CHRISTIAN!

 

[imoss]

OH, and btw I've seen your propaganda pamphlets and the invitation to the memorial service... its says NOTHING about Jesus being RISEN... its to remember the DEATH of Jesus. If this has been revised kindly scan & post it so we can take a look as i'm going based on memory as i ripped the invite into 10000 tiny little pieces... not to hate on your cult or anything... Also, you need to seriously consider your quest to bring people to the JW fold on a Christian chat line masquerading yourself as a Christian. There will be a judgement day... you think on that day you'll get brownie points and higher status on the "new earth" for all your converts... I'd hate to think what the Lord will say about you converting people from Christianity. Jesus isnt just a teacher HE IS LORD and SAVIOR. PRAYING PRAYING PRAYING that you will HEAR some of what has been posted here and recognise the TRUTH. Sorry if I seem too passionate but I really dont think this is the forum for you to be promoting JW Beliefs.

 

[Cookie38115]

I am new, but I guess I am wondering what is the point of this post? Is it to get true understanding, or is it to cause disruption? What you believe is what you believe, what I believe is what I believe. The key is knowing with in yourself, what is the right thing. I never get into discussion who is right and who is wrong. In times past I have been wrong concerning the word and what the Father requires of us as believers in Him. I will say this, unless you believe that Christ Jesus died for your sins, and confess with your mouth your sins and make him The Lord of your life, what is the point? The revelation is with in you and your relationship with The Father. I pray you listen to the one true voice, and let Him guild you to your soul salvation. We can not save you are make you right with in His sight.