Another requirement for salvation; Not that simple

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#61
After a casual reading of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. *All Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture.

Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. This is not performance based salvation, but salvation based performance. The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed.

Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of "faith by which one receives eternal life."

Notice how love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" not to become of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love the brethren (present tense). Loving the brethren is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life.
Not that I agree with what you wrote... but we were looking at the verse for other reasons....

In short response to you... one only needs to read Revelation to see our works are to be perfect... and we are rewarded according to our works .. it is written for us all to see. Not my words... but the Lord's. Take it up with the King of Kings...
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#62
Revelation 20


And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Consider this my friend.
yep, but this verse do not say hell is tomporary
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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#63
Yep, from hell into the lake of fire. there are different layers of hell, the deepest being the hottest. some go deeper than others in discomfort. , but the second death, they pack their bags and move into the lake of fire, which is the hottest of them all through all eternity.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#64
That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is easy to understand (Ephesians 2:8,9). It's just not easy for people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow so many people to receive Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through FAITH.
yep salvation is by faith alone, but Jesus say narrow is the path, only few save.

by faith doesn't mean easy. Stephen lost his physical life because of faith. Abraham let his only son be kill though God Cancel It.

but he demonstrate his willingness to kill his only son because of faith.

salvation is by faith alone, but according to Jesus, It is not that easy
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#65
yep, but this verse do not say hell is tomporary
.

hell delivers up those that are in it...

death and hell go in to the lake of fire

i guess it is temporary in a sense that those in it are delivered out and then cast in to the lake of fire.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#66
Not that I agree with what you wrote... but we were looking at the verse for other reasons....

In short response to you... one only needs to read Revelation to see our works are to be perfect... and we are rewarded according to our works .. it is written for us all to see. Not my words... but the Lord's. Take it up with the King of Kings...
Yep, salvation is by faith or believe in Jesus, John 3:16

but real believer, Translate his believe into agape work.

1 John 4:20

“If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
same thing with have a faith to God

if a man say, I have to God and kill people every day, he is a Lie, he do not have faith in God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#67
.

hell delivers up those that are in it...

death and hell go in to the lake of fire

i guess it is temporary in a sense that those in it are delivered out and then cast in to the lake of fire.
I believe deliver out from hell mean, non save that still a live is oN the way to hell, AS soon AS he recieve the Lord Jesus, he deliver from hell.

not in the sense that he die an go to hell for a year and move to heaven
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#68
Not that I agree with what you wrote... but we were looking at the verse for other reasons....

In short response to you... one only needs to read Revelation to see our works are to be perfect... and we are rewarded according to our works .. it is written for us all to see. Not my words... but the Lord's. Take it up with the King of Kings...
Rewarded by works does not equate to saved by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#69
Rewarded by works does not equate to saved by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).
save is not by work, but matt 25 indicate If a man not have good work, go to hell, not go to heaven without reward, but go to hell.

because real faith produce agape work.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#70
Rewarded by works does not equate to saved by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).
You are going to recieve His reward based on your works... it is then He will deem you a Faithful or unfaithful servant.. likewise for myself... if I am not Faithful then I don't deserve His reward.. quote scripture if you wish.. but it will not wash with Him...

The Reward is to be given the right to the Tree of life.. Blessed are they that do His Commandments.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#71
You are going to recieve His reward based on your works... it is then He will deem you a Faithful or unfaithful servant.. likewise for myself... if I am not Faithful then I don't deserve His reward.. quote scripture if you wish.. but it will not wash with Him...

The Reward is to be given the right to the Tree of life.. Blessed are they that do His Commandments.
We must not confuse descriptive passages of Scripture with prescriptive passages of Scripture. Jesus drew the line in the sand in John 3:18.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#72
save is not by work, but matt 25 indicate If a man not have good work, go to hell, not go to heaven without reward, but go to hell.

because real faith produce agape work.
They use Scripture that does not pertain to what they believe... it is teaching the works of the Old Testament not able to save etc...

Only by the Grace of GOD through Faith are we able to work for our Master who can pardon us or not based on if we hear and do what he commands of us.. otherwise we will be unworthy of Him.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#73
We must not confuse descriptive passages of Scripture with prescriptive passages of Scripture. Jesus drew the line in the sand in John 3:18.

What I shared above does not nul John 3:18... to believe is to Hear and do....

You are clutching rather than asking for Truth.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#74
If the High Priest tells you to work then you work.. if you are told to be perfect then set your heart to be perfect.. it is a way of abiding..

Those that use the thief on the cross for anything other than while there is breath there is hope are not being good servants... The thief would not of carried on stealing but would of set his heart to Love and obey because he was forgiven...

It is time to believe and adhere... theology is preventing you from believing and setting your hearts to serve and worship GOD in Spirit and Truth.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#75
What I shared above does not nul John 3:18... to believe is to Hear and do....

You are clutching rather than asking for Truth.
To believe is to trust. We believe in our heart and not just in our head. To do is the fruit of believing. Belief/Faith is the root of salvation and doing/good works which follow is the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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#76
This Scripture is true. When we get saved we do count the cost just like Scripture tells us. What it really means is when your family will disown if you claim Y-shua is Messiah so you choose to reject Him. I think to many that live where religion is free or a family that religion is matter of choice this Scripture really rings home. But take a Jew or a former Muslim we are disowned. It does matter. We do get disowned, even excommunicated from our race. The only reason I am still a Jew is because my mother is a Jew but to some of my people I am no longer a Jew. So be it. Y-shua talked to a man who said let me bury my father, and Y-shua responded let the dead bury the dead. Unless you get (what the Scripture is asking because you have been there.)((and that is ok)). I don't think you'll ever really get it...

If there are requirements for Salvation then it would be this… respond when the Holy Spirit is convicting you of your sin, respond to His call. G-d’s mercy calls from the uttermost to the guttermost; those already living “good” lives to us living like rats in the street. The ONLY requirement for Salvation is the response “LORD SAVE ME I AM A SINNER”!!!

Everyone must give up something when they are saved, none of us get here perfect. For some it’s a mother, a brother, a sister or a child…. BUT FOR EVERY HUMAN IT’S PRIDE. WE ARE SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#77
To believe is to trust. We believe in our heart and not just in our head. To do is the fruit of believing. Belief/Faith is the root of salvation and doing/good works which follow is the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

Fruit equates to work.. and by the works/fruit we are rewarded.. So to be given the right to the Tree of life which equates to Everlasting life.. we must work or not be given the reward.

we are creating riddles...

Even so, we are to hear and do... to be faithful or unfaithful... neither you or I have the reward to give but must love and serve The Messiah who does. Without Him we are condemned.. so we ought to stay close to the Good Shepherd.

The Righteousness of our Lord is what can pay the price of our sin.. but we have to love and obey Him.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
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#78
Fruit equates to work.. and by the works/fruit we are rewarded.. So to be given the right to the Tree of life which equates to Everlasting life.. we must work or not be given the reward.

we are creating riddles...

Yes we are. Nat a riddle, yes or no... If you do not believe a chair can hold you do you sit down?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#79
Fruit equates to work.. and by the works/fruit we are rewarded.. So to be given the right to the Tree of life which equates to Everlasting life.. we must work or not be given the reward.

we are creating riddles...

Even so, we are to hear and do... to be faithful or unfaithful... neither you or I have the reward to give but must love and serve The Messiah who does. Without Him we are condemned.. so we ought to stay close to the Good Shepherd.

The Righteousness of our Lord is what can pay the price of our sin.. but we have to love and obey Him.
Oh, I see from whence your error stems, you believe salvation to be a reward, not a free gift. That said, you shouldn't expect to receive either.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#80
Yes we are. Nat a riddle, yes or no... If you do not believe a chair can hold you do you sit down?
True conversion in Christ, the transforming power of the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 3:18ff, including the gifting of faith to believe, Romans 10:17; Ephesians 1:19; Romans 12:3 &c is not to be equated with the act of a person sitting in a chair.

That illustration is heresy, the same heresy that came from Finney when he told folks that being saved is the same thing as choosing a career.

You should not only hold a higher view of the Gospel, but also a biblical view.