Answer me this...

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Jul 10, 2015
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#81
Regarding a Divided heaven:

Jude does tell us this:

Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

What I find interesting, and consoling, too, is that the devil is not, and does not think he is, on an equal footing with God. This bizarre argument has been circling christianity for like 15 centuries!

Job tells us that the devil came before God, along with the other host, and there is some talk going on there. He has to get permission to do various things to Job, and he does not dare do worse than what God allowed.

Now, what kind of a war is that? Can you imagine if one country had to get permission to attack the territories of the country it wished to attack? Crazy stupid.

But this is what we see Satan doing, with God in heaven, against Job.

The conclusion I draw from that, is that the devil is not in the least mistaken about his role and what authority has been granted him by God. He also knows his time is short, as we read in Revelation 12.

Personally, what I believe has a dilemma about it, but so do all the alternative theories. I think, since Jesus said the devil was a liar and murderer from the beginning, and when he lies he speaks of his own nature, for he is the father of lies... that God did in fact make the devil the way he is, as a provocateur.

Job speaking, sheds a little light on this matter in chapter 12. Read the whole chapter, and do keep this particular verse in mind as you contemplate it:

Job 12:16 With him (God) are strength and sound wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are his.


The dilemma is that God cannot tempt anybody, and yet the devil does tempt people. It's difficult to reconcile, and the best arguments only put the issue one step further away, but not gone. A little more help comes from James who writes:

Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire (lust).
Jas 1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.


It is not a "spirit of lust" responsible (I don't think any such thing exists), but man's OWN lust.

Interesting stuff.

How am I comforted? I know that God is 100% in control, despite our free will, and He is working all things out for good for us who are called by Him.

And regardless of the type of pain, torture, death, whatever, levied against me (either brought about by my own stupid sins, or by being tested by God (which may include the devil trying to do things to me -- see how difficult this is to figure out? hahaha), I know the Jesus is worthy of all praise and honor.
 
Jul 10, 2015
107
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#82
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Salvation and many things about God, are simply higher than the natural mind. We cannot understand them, unless and until, God's spirit reveals it to us.

God is one and three at the same time.
Free will and predestination are true at the same time.
and many others I used to compile a list.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#83
The word good in Hebrew is tove, which can also mean to function according to purpose. So God's creation was functioning according to purpose.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The knowledge of evil was hidden from man to protect us from sin. Sin leads to death. We became like God in the sense that we knew good and evil.

The first word in the Bible is beresheet (בראשית). If we look at the Hebrew picture of this word we see the following:

ב beyt – house/home
ר resh – head / head of
א aleph - all power / all strength
ש shin – divine protection / all-consuming fire
י yud – hand
ת tav – sign of a cross

בר bar in Daniel 3-25 Son
ברא berah means create, form of shape
שי shayee in Psalm 68-29 translated as presents / gifts
שית sheet in Genesis 4-25 translated as appoint

Now if we put it all together we get:

“Elohim will build/create (berah) a house, He will appoint his son as the head of the house. He will have all power/ all strength is in his hands for divine protection. He will be an all-consuming fire / gift and his sign will be a cross.”

You can decide yourself if this is preordained or unplanned...
seems to me more like mere human speculation,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#84
If God's Creation was perfect until Eve was deceived, how did the serpent come into the Garden to begin with? Why was he (Satan?) permitted access to God's brand new Miracle?
God's creation was a physical creation and was 'very good' (very suitable for its purpose of supporting man). The snake was part of God's creation.

Satan had access because he was spiritual being. What he did not realise was that he was part of God's plan to finally produce a humanity pure and untemptable which could fellowship with God Himself for eternity.

If all is preordained (is all preordained?), was man's downfall known from 'Let there be light?'

If yes, why?
Yes and before. Jesus death was foreordained from the foundation of the world.
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#85
Regarding a Divided Heaven

Jude does tell us this:

Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

What I find interesting, and consoling, too, is that the devil is not, and does not think he is, on an equal footing with God. This bizarre argument has been circling christianity for like 15 centuries!

Job tells us that the devil came before God, along with the other host, and there is some talk going on there. He has to get permission to do various things to Job, and he does not dare do worse than what God allowed.

Now, what kind of a war is that? Can you imagine if one country had to get permission to attack the territories of the country it wished to attack? Crazy stupid.

But this is what we see Satan doing, with God in heaven, against Job.

The conclusion I draw from that, is that the devil is not in the least mistaken about his role and what authority has been granted him by God. He also knows his time is short, as we read in Revelation 12.

Personally, what I believe has a dilemma about it, but so do all the alternative theories. I think, since Jesus said the devil was a liar and murderer from the beginning, and when he lies he speaks of his own nature, for he is the father of lies... that God did in fact make the devil the way he is, as a provocateur.

Job speaking, sheds a little light on this matter in chapter 12. Read the whole chapter, and do keep this particular verse in mind as you contemplate it:

Job 12:16 With him (God) are strength and sound wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are his.


The dilemma is that God cannot tempt anybody, and yet the devil does tempt people. It's difficult to reconcile, and the best arguments only put the issue one step further away, but not gone. A little more help comes from James who writes:

Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire (lust).
Jas 1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.


It is not a "spirit of lust" responsible (I don't think any such thing exists), but man's OWN lust.

Interesting stuff.

How am I comforted? I know that God is 100% in control, despite our free will, and He is working all things out for good for us who are called by Him.

And regardless of the type of pain, torture, death, whatever, levied against me (either brought about by my own stupid sins, or by being tested by God (which may include the devil trying to do things to me -- see how difficult this is to figure out? hahaha), I know the Jesus is worthy of all praise and honor.
Enlightening thank you :)

Im focusing on Matthew 6:33
But SEEK ye FIRST the kingdom of GOD and his Righteousness...

Tintin said be descerning and I was not, I was closed off to proper instruction.

I want to ask more questions but I'm waiting for questions I have regarding my bible readings. Need to stay focused :D one little hurdle at a time.
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#86
If God's Creation was perfect until Eve was deceived, how did the serpent come into the Garden to begin with? Why was he (Satan?) permitted access to God's brand new Miracle?

If all is preordained (is all preordained?), was man's downfall known from 'Let there be light?'

If yes, why?
First of all, all is not preordained.

Second, look at the big picture. The purpose of our existence in this life is to prepare us for the next life - heaven. Only the Lord knows how to do that.
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#87
First of all, all is not preordained.

Second, look at the big picture. The purpose of our existence in this life is to prepare us for the next life - heaven. Only the Lord knows how to do that.
Thank you. :) I was being stubborn and had forgotten why I was here. On earth. To glorify my Father in Heaven until he brings me home!

Bless you muchly! :)
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#88
Thank you. :) I was being stubborn and had forgotten why I was here. On earth. To glorify my Father in Heaven until he brings me home!

Bless you muchly! :)
You will do well with this attitude!!!!! Encouraging Sister!
 
Jul 10, 2015
36
2
8
#89
If God's Creation was perfect until Eve was
deceived, how did the serpent come into the Garden to begin with? Why was he (Satan?) permitted access to God's brand new Miracle?

If all is preordained (is all preordained?), was man's downfall known from 'Let there be light?'

If yes, why?

I think it was preordained. Romans 8:28 states, "all things happen for the greater glory of those that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose."

I am no expert at all. And this scripture was way after eve however does it or could it not apply?
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#90
I think it was preordained. Romans 8:28 states, "all things happen for the greater glory of those that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose."

I am no expert at all. And this scripture was way after eve however does it or could it not apply?
You answered your own question! It was preordained :)
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#91
Yes, God knew all before He created the world, that's why He didn't create it in heaven. I knew before I had a child that that child would disobey me at times and try my patience, but it was still worth it to me to have a child to love. God wants souls who will choose to love and obey Him of their own free will. How can you make a choice if you are not presented with an option? In order to choose right or wrong we need to know about right and wrong. Both Adam and Eve chose wrong- to eat the forbidden fruit, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, but to those who try to be obedient He washed their sins away. He knew the whole plan before the plan was put in place.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#92
another related question... did God always want people who know right from wrong to love him?

if so, then it explains why the tree is there in the garden, and the serpent also...

all of the players are following God's intention, even if some are disobeying the command...
 
Jun 23, 2015
9
1
0
#93
If God's Creation was perfect until Eve was deceived, how did the serpent come into the Garden to begin with? Why was he (Satan?) permitted access to God's brand new Miracle?

If all is preordained (is all preordained?), was man's downfall known from 'Let there be light?'

If yes, why?
God's creation was perfect till Satan rebelled.
Which was before Eve was deceived.