Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?
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No you've got that all wrong. The rapture trumpet is a trumpet of assembly, a joyful, jubilant sound. Only believing ears hear this trumpet, only believers respond to it.
On the other hand, the Revelation trumpets are trumpets of judgment and woe. In fact, the last three trumpets are specifically described as "WOE" judgment trumpets. Believers not subject to the dire effets of these trumpets as they have been raptured by now.
On the other hand, the Revelation trumpets are trumpets of judgment and woe. In fact, the last three trumpets are specifically described as "WOE" judgment trumpets. Believers not subject to the dire effets of these trumpets as they have been raptured by now.
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Take a look again at the Joyful and Jubilant Trumpet
Thank you Brother CV5 for sharing this with me.
I lean towards the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as a Joy & Jubilance for the Believer and at the same time Dread for the earth dwellers.
Let's take another look.
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”
And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying:
(Jubilant Joy to the Saved)
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.
(Dread upon the unsaved)
The nations were enraged,
and Your wrath has come.
(His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the JUST)
The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—
(His Second Coming and His Wrath upon the earth dwellers/Beast Mark)
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
This is EXACTLY what the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Thess & 2 Thess
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.
Dwell on this Promise from the LORD = "what God has joined together let no man separate"
PEACE to You, Brother CV5
Thank you Brother CV5 for sharing this with me.
I lean towards the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as a Joy & Jubilance for the Believer and at the same time Dread for the earth dwellers.
Let's take another look.
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”
And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying:
(Jubilant Joy to the Saved)
“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power
and have begun to reign.
(Dread upon the unsaved)
The nations were enraged,
and Your wrath has come.
(His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the JUST)
The time has come to judge the dead
and to reward Your servants the prophets,
as well as the saints and those who fear Your name,
both small and great—
(His Second Coming and His Wrath upon the earth dwellers/Beast Mark)
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
This is EXACTLY what the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Thess & 2 Thess
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.
Dwell on this Promise from the LORD = "what God has joined together let no man separate"
PEACE to You, Brother CV5
FreeGrace2 said:
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.
OK, p10. Please point out the specific words that describe a glorified trip to heaven in 2 Thess 2:1, since you pushed the "wrong" button 3 times.
I love you guys. You keep disagreeing, but you NEVER come up with any verse that says what you guys claim.
Haven't you been trying to defend a "rapture", where Jesus takes the resurrected believers to heaven, all before the Trib? That trip.
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.
OK, p10. Please point out the specific words that describe a glorified trip to heaven in 2 Thess 2:1, since you pushed the "wrong" button 3 times.
I love you guys. You keep disagreeing, but you NEVER come up with any verse that says what you guys claim.
Haven't you been trying to defend a "rapture", where Jesus takes the resurrected believers to heaven, all before the Trib? That trip.
You don't have to wait for the Great Tribulation to see that "great apostasy". There're so many churches that have gone woke over the PLANdemic, lawlessness abounds everyday on the street. 2 Thess. 2:3 is not the only verse predicting that. The end will come when transgression reaches to its fullness.
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And that's where you're wrong. Old Testament (Israelite) saints are wedding guests to the supper. The Church is the bride of Christ. Two distinct parties of the first resurrection.
And the Church is not even on earth to experience the distruction of Babylon
Nope. The only joy is being spoken of is from heaven (by those who reside in heaven) before God. And much of the joy and praise pertains to the anticipation of the yet future kingdom and the Second Coming which is still years away. In fact the distruction of Babylon is still years away.
Contrarily, the Jews and Gentiles who are the earth dwellers are suffering to the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen.
And something else......the 24 elders singing that song are those who are redeemed from every tribe tongue people and nation, who are kings and priests who wear crowns and white robes and sit on thrones......in other words the Church. Having already been raptured way back in Revelation ch 4.
And the Church is not even on earth to experience the distruction of Babylon
Nope. The only joy is being spoken of is from heaven (by those who reside in heaven) before God. And much of the joy and praise pertains to the anticipation of the yet future kingdom and the Second Coming which is still years away. In fact the distruction of Babylon is still years away.
Contrarily, the Jews and Gentiles who are the earth dwellers are suffering to the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen.
And something else......the 24 elders singing that song are those who are redeemed from every tribe tongue people and nation, who are kings and priests who wear crowns and white robes and sit on thrones......in other words the Church. Having already been raptured way back in Revelation ch 4.
ERROR = "And the Church is not even on earth to experience the distraction of Babylon."
KNOW this - i am always open to TRUTH and never claim to have all the answers. My heart is submitted unto Christ and His Holy Spirit and if you and TDW or anyone, were to bring forth scripture that can answer the questions(s) below, then i rejoice with you in making the corrections in my mind and heart.
There is no more Greater Joy then for us = Brethren = to partake in the Bread of Life together at the SAME Table.
Here is my question(s) again: (CV5, Marilyn, TDW)
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.
PEACE
KNOW this - i am always open to TRUTH and never claim to have all the answers. My heart is submitted unto Christ and His Holy Spirit and if you and TDW or anyone, were to bring forth scripture that can answer the questions(s) below, then i rejoice with you in making the corrections in my mind and heart.
There is no more Greater Joy then for us = Brethren = to partake in the Bread of Life together at the SAME Table.
Here is my question(s) again: (CV5, Marilyn, TDW)
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.
PEACE
Your first paragraph is 100%.
i understand your second paragraph and is true in part but not in whole.
God is not dependent upon the "institutions".
There is no removal off the earth = there is the Replacement of Truth = replacing Christ with Antichrist in all aspects.
Which is near FULL completion.
So the effect is that once the Holy Spirit who has been holding back the revealing of the 'wicked one' 'permits', then the
world, which has been begging for him to come since Genesis, will receive their Messiah = including Israel.
Which is the reason for the LORD gathering the nations to battle against Israel = Zechariah ch14
i understand your second paragraph and is true in part but not in whole.
God is not dependent upon the "institutions".
There is no removal off the earth = there is the Replacement of Truth = replacing Christ with Antichrist in all aspects.
Which is near FULL completion.
So the effect is that once the Holy Spirit who has been holding back the revealing of the 'wicked one' 'permits', then the
world, which has been begging for him to come since Genesis, will receive their Messiah = including Israel.
Which is the reason for the LORD gathering the nations to battle against Israel = Zechariah ch14
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This is just blatant antisemitism from the "replacement theory". In the end Israel will finally acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, that's in Matt. 23:39, the last verse of the chapter. Gentile church is but a part of the process.
Yeah, there's definitely a pattern. When Jesus finally gave up the last breath with a loud cry, there was darkened sky, along with earthquake and thunders, veil in the temple - God's previous dwelling place - torn in two, and a mass resurrection (Matt. 27:52-53). That's a preview of the second coming in Matt. 24:29-31.
Yeah, there's definitely a pattern. When Jesus finally gave up the last breath with a loud cry, there was darkened sky, along with earthquake and thunders, veil in the temple - God's previous dwelling place - torn in two, and a mass resurrection (Matt. 27:52-53). That's a preview of the second coming in Matt. 24:29-31.
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What are you talking about now? The prophetic fulfillment of the restoration of the nation Israel is NOT "Replacement Theology". It is just the opposite. Do you even understand the basis of replacement theology?
Furthermore, Jewish believers are indeed Christians (the body, the Bride)....up to the point in time of the rapture. But not thereafter. The Church age, the age of Grace has been completed, Rom 11:25 has been fulfilled.
THEN comes the 70th week of Daniel and the fulfillment of Acts 1:6. And the Jews DO call upon Jesus to return....to the EARTH. However these Jewish believers are NOT the Church per se. They inherit all of the promises given to Abraham and fulfill the mandate to excercise God's will upon the EARTH in the Millenial Kingdom.
Furthermore, Jewish believers are indeed Christians (the body, the Bride)....up to the point in time of the rapture. But not thereafter. The Church age, the age of Grace has been completed, Rom 11:25 has been fulfilled.
THEN comes the 70th week of Daniel and the fulfillment of Acts 1:6. And the Jews DO call upon Jesus to return....to the EARTH. However these Jewish believers are NOT the Church per se. They inherit all of the promises given to Abraham and fulfill the mandate to excercise God's will upon the EARTH in the Millenial Kingdom.
And how pray tell do you integrate this passage into your eschatological framework?
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
For us, the pre-trib premillennialist's, this passage dovetails beautifully into our eschatology, as do ALL of the prophetic Scriptures. Including Acts 2:16-21 and Acts 15:16-17. Both of which have millennial Kingdom (the restoration of NATIONAL ETHNIC ISRAEL) components instilled into them.
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
For us, the pre-trib premillennialist's, this passage dovetails beautifully into our eschatology, as do ALL of the prophetic Scriptures. Including Acts 2:16-21 and Acts 15:16-17. Both of which have millennial Kingdom (the restoration of NATIONAL ETHNIC ISRAEL) components instilled into them.