Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#61
Jul 3, 2015
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#61
JesusIsSovereign said:
I agree. But as Paul says in Romans 1 they suppress the truth and that they have no excuse.
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Romans 1:20-21 Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
:)
 
J

JesusIsSovereign

Member
#62
Oct 10, 2024
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#62
Magenta said:
Nobody is born a believer. Is that what you mean? Because I did not believe in God but I knew
there was something, so I never did say, there is no God, which is what fools say in their hearts.
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Romans 1:18-21. They without excuse. What about God was made known plainly to them.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#64
Jul 3, 2015
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#64

Romans 10:13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
:)
 
J

JesusIsSovereign

Member
#65
Oct 10, 2024
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#65
Magenta said:
Implying what?
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Just letting you know I've heard people talk the was you have and then say that after God opens our hearts calls us we still might not choose Him. This just isn't true. I don't think you're saying this exactly, but I wanted to be sure. My question is ultimately, do you believe you can be unsaved after you are accept Christ?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#66
Jul 3, 2015
59,681
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#66
JesusIsSovereign said:
Just letting you know I've heard people talk the was you have and then say that after God opens our hearts
calls us we still might not choose Him. This just isn't true. I don't think you're saying this exactly, but I wanted
to be sure. My question is ultimately, do you believe you can be unsaved after you are accept Christ?
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I explicitly said those called will come, in the very post you wondered about and quoted. I do not believe one can be unborn again.


John 6:37
:)
 
J

JesusIsSovereign

Member
#67
Oct 10, 2024
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17
USA, Indiana, Elkhart, Goshen.
#67
Magenta said:

Psalm 19:1
God is made known through His creation, I agree. Do you believe creation attests to the gospel?

The gospel needs to be preached.
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I agree, the Word of God needs to be preached─it's the means that God has chosen to bring saving knowledge to His people that haven't heard it yet. God could've chosen a completely different way of spreading the truth in Christ, but He gives us the privilege to spread His Word. It's a great privilege for us to serve Christ! Praise God!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#69
Jul 3, 2015
59,681
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#69
JesusIsSovereign said:
I agree, the Word of God needs to be preached─it's the means that God has chosen to bring saving knowledge
to His people that haven't heard it yet. God could've chosen a completely different way of spreading the truth
in Christ, but He gives us the privilege to spread His Word. It's a great privilege for us to serve Christ! Praise God!
Click to expand...

Psalm 150:6 plus Job 12:7-10
 
J

JesusIsSovereign

Member
#70
Oct 10, 2024
82
30
18
17
USA, Indiana, Elkhart, Goshen.
#70
Magenta said:

Psalm 19:1
God is made known through His creation, I agree. Do you believe creation attests to the gospel?

The gospel needs to be preached.
Click to expand...
I agree, the Word of God needs to be preached─it's the means that God has chosen to bring saving knowledge to His people that haven't heard it yet. God could've chosen a completely different way of spreading the truth in Christ, but He gives us the privilege to spread His
Magenta said:
I explicitly said those called will come, in the very post you wondered about and quoted. I do not believe one can be unborn again.


John 6:37
:)
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Maybe it was someone else then because I someone did say something like the ones who are called can possibly not choose God. I might of read your post wrong, and I've done that before. And if I did, sorry about that lol.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#72
Jul 3, 2015
59,681
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#72
GWH said:
Yes atheism is an ungodly belief or humanist religion that substitutes i-dolatry for I am.
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I learned a lot talking to atheists and agnostics and secular humanists and polytheists and Satanists and maltheists...
I was early in my Christian walk when I started, having stumbled upon the religion forum of the myspace site.
They immediately tried to chase me away LOL, but I was there until the very day the site closed down after
being resold in order to facilitate returning to their musical roots. It was a hopping, happening place in
those days. Fakebook had not quite taken over as the social media craze of the day...

I have fond memories of myspace .:)
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#73
Oct 19, 2024
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#73
Magenta said:
There are a lot of moving parts to be sure, and Deuteronomy also tells us that God will circumcise our hearts so that we may love Him... not that we will or have to but may, which is a choice we make after our hearts have been changed. After! For none can choose befire then, they are blinded and hostile and unable to obey and cannot even understand. Although all He calls will come, ... and none can come without beibg drawn... I do not have the verse references off the top of my head and cannot navigate away from this page to get them as I am out for coffee and on my phone at the moment. Jesus also said He will draw all men to Himself, and we also know a time comes when every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is LORD. Quite the ball of wax we have! LOL

PS I witnessed to atheists, agnostics and secular humanists for about 8 years before I landed here :D
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Great and I hope you had better results than I. Jesus tried to draw all people but had to hope that being hoisted on a cross would do it. It appears that every tongue confessing him as Lord may not happen until in heaven. ☹️
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#74
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
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#74
JesusIsSovereign said:
Well, we do know that God says Atheism doesn't exist. It's more like a religion in itself.
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I agree.

You will not find "non-belief" in the Bible. The word you will find is "unbelief". Because believing God is mans' typical spiritual setting, to NOT do so requires intention and action. Unbelief is an intentional lifestyle marked by not believing God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#75
Jul 3, 2015
59,681
29,020
113
#75
GWH said:
Great and I hope you had better results than I. Jesus tried to draw all people but had to hope that being hoisted
on a cross would do it. It appears that every tongue confessing him as Lord may not happen until in heaven. ☹️
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I must say that ultimately they are hilarious, and after myspace shut down and all the boards
deleted I went to CARM, where they at least had real Christian moderation, and also a space
dedicated to talking pretty much exclusively to atheists agnostics secular humanists etc, so
that is where I was for somewhere between three and four years. They did seem to get more
sophisticated and were extremely hard-hearted, so it did begin to wear on me. I say they are
hilarious because for some, there was no line they would not cross to try to upset a Christian,
and I witnessed a few crashing and burning, to the glee of those who sought it. Not that that
was the hilarious part, no, the name calling and vulgarities and profanities and outright
provably false anyone-can-see-what-you-justsaid-is-a-lie type of thing, and outrageous
statements like "humans know everything there is to know", and "there are no absolutes."
I mean, even a dummy like me could logically and rationally oppose such stupidity
and show they did not have any corner on the "market" when it came to logic.

I do not even know if CARM exists as it did in those days. The site is still there.
But it was hacked at one point and the owner even joined CC at one point.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#78
Jul 3, 2015
59,681
29,020
113
#78
GWH said:
Yes and I like that Paul blames their god for blindness, not the Lord God.
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God has taken responsibility even as He holds man responsible for the choices they make.

It is an edge of the razor that not many find comfort in.

So many say things like, Adam was perfect. I do not see that anywhere in Scripture. Adam was good. We are perfected in Christ.

Adam was also of the natural world. The Tree of Life was there for him. He was in need of it as much as we are.

Being of the natural world, 1 John 2:16 explains his propensity to sin. And James 1:14-15

Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after
desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes,
and the pride of life--is not from the Father but from the world.

Someone recommended Chronister as an excellent expositor recently.
One of the first things I heard him say was that Adam did not fall.
I stopped listening at that point.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#79
Oct 19, 2024
495
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#79
Since you asked about free will, I guess it is appropriate at this point to share my explanation.

Moral free will (MFW) only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (DT 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (GL 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (IS 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (GL 6:7-9, HB 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (LK 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (GN 3:24, RV 22:1-2)

God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (GN 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1JN 3:8) and humanity (RM 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word. God loves a cheerful giver (2CR 9:7), which means He desires people to cooperate with Him happily because of love and gratitude for His grace rather than to cower before Him because of fear of hell. Love must be evoked; it cannot be coerced. And again, when souls sin or do NOT choose to love God freely, it is perfectly just (loving and logical) for them to reap the appropriate consequence (GL 6:7-9) or hell.

Why would anyone choose to believe otherwise? Only God knows why people choose atheism. It is a mystery stated by Isaiah, which is cited by Jesus (in MT 13:14-15): “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused.” Apparently, this callous attitude demands God to nullify faith/MFW and thereby abrogate the essence of humanness by performing miracles (in addition to creation) in order to prove He exists (MT 12:39, 24:24, JN 20:29 & 1CR 1:22).

In other words, atheists presume to know better than God; they want to usurp divine authority to determine what is best or good, but they may one day (at the eschaton per RV 20:15) wish they had admitted the possibility that God has ordained this mortal life on earth for the purpose of people proving to Him who is worthy of (qualified for) eternal life in heaven (cf. RM 2:5-8 & 2CR 13:5; heart/mind: hard or open?).

Over...
 
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