Apostles, Prophets, Teachers,...

[AnandaHya]

I am sitting here and praying about this discussion, and the Spirit brings one thing to my heart. Jesus said that it would not be good if one caused a little one to stumble.

I believe that God has put this desire into this man's heart. I am not asking him to follow anything, except the Spirit of God. And you are constantly trying to cause him to stumble. Trip him up so to speak.

You know, once years ago, I read and reread Psalms, because I was lead to by God. I was in a particularly bad time in my life, away from my family, trying to find my way as a christian, with a lot of troubles. And one thing I saw over and over again in the psalms of David was that he was encompassed about with enemies, who laid snares for his feet. Your arguments remind me of those cries that David made to the Lord about his enemies.

If your discernment was working, you would see that this is not good, profitable, nor righteous.

In Christ,

1. what desire are you talking about?
2. when did the conversation go back to you asking him about anything?
3. why would I try and make him stumble? you are constantly accusing me of having evil motives
4. I'm not arguing but asking questions.

what is wrong with asking questions and giving scripture verses and telling people to think upon them?

how does that cause people to stumble?

Anyway Necto I hope you are more rational and reasonable then VW.
****

zone I listened to your sermon and didn't find it completely on point.

for example her is an example of a prophetess speaking in church:


Luke 2:36-47
New King James Version (NKJV)
Anna Bears Witness to the Redeemer
36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years,[a] who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

 

[zone]

zone I listened to your sermon and didn't find it completely on point.

for example her is an example of a prophetess speaking in church:


Luke 2:36-47
New King James Version (NKJV)
Anna Bears Witness to the Redeemer
36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years,[a] who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

um....yes?

the office is no longer needed nor in effect. surely we can ALL see this by now (?)

i have NEVER denied it existed for the foundation. Luke recorded Anna's name.
he also penned Acts, ananda: the Acts of the Apostles.

and? WHEN was Luke's Gospel written? WHAT is it talking about?

show me a single authoritative and infallible apostle today, or a prophet - revealing God's Plan and Will, with attending signs and wonders.... just ONE.

we CLEARLY need to see their writings and words in and added daily to canon: if it isn't being added literally, physically and continuously to canon (do you have it in your hand?) it is ILLEGAL.

Ephesians 2
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

~

this should cause great fear and trembling...yet it doesn't:

Rev 22
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

wriggling out from under this warning by speaking words into the air doesn't CUT IT.

 

[AnandaHya]

zone I was just commenting on one point in the sermon that did not line up. unlike some that does not mean I reject the whole message as lies. will have to listen to it again and get back on his various points to see which ones are supported by scriptures and which ones aren't.

yes I know your position is cessationist, but i have yet to hear or read anything that convinces me to agree that God no longer works the same as He has done since the beginning of time. I spend more time in the Bible and with God then listening to sermons or the news, and logically why would God change?

Has the world ended? does the enemy no longer deceive the nations?

Many on here are Catholic and they believe that the church has been continued. I will have to do more research and prayer about the whole situation. I admit freely there is alot I don't know but God has shown me the important parts: that Jesus died for the sins of the world and so that we may all have the honor of calling God Abba.

 

[zone]

zone I was just commenting on one point in the sermon that did not line up. unlike some that does not mean I reject the whole message as lies. will have to listen to it again and get back on his various points to see which ones are supported by scriptures and which ones aren't.

yes I know your position is cessationist, but i have yet to hear or read anything that convinces me to agree that God no longer works the same as He has done since the beginning of time. I spend more time in the Bible and with God then listening to sermons or the news, and logically why would God change?

Has the world ended? does the enemy no longer deceive the nations?

Many on here are Catholic and they believe that the church has been continued. I will have to do more research and prayer about the whole situation. I admit freely there is alot I don't know but God has shown me the important parts: that Jesus died for the sins of the world and so that we may all have the honor of calling God Abba.

Amen.
~
sounds good Ananda.
let me know if you listen again.

satan is said to be bound from deceiving the nations until just before the end.
given the state of affairs it may be that short space is looming.
zone

 

[Scotth1960]

I cannot say it better:

1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.\

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinth 12

Dear friends, What is the opinion (belief) of your Christian church/congregation/fellowship/Bible study/denomination/group/community regarding the Church Fathers?
1. The Church Fathers are the original true Christians, and we should listen to and believe what they say. If there is a conflict between what they teach and what my church/denomination teaches, I will believe the Church fathers, and not my church/denomination
2. The Church Fathers are interesting, but if there is a conflict/difference between what they teach and what my church/denomination teaches, I will go with my church/denomination, and believe my denomination is more infallible than the Church Fathers.
3. I will leave this problem unsolved, and I really don't care what the early Christians believed, and they can be wrong. There was a great apostasy in the early Church, and there were no true Christians and no true Church on earth at all until the 16th/17th/18th/19th/20th/21st century came along, and my church/denomination came along and "restored"/ "reformed" all things. The true gospel has only been taught since the time of John Wycliffe and the Protestant Reformers. The Orthodox and the Catholics are pagans and are not Christians. Only Protestants are Christians. And only my kind of Protestant is a true Christian
so it's either Only Lutherans preach the true Gospel
Only Calvinists preach the true Gospel
only Methodists preach the true Gospel
only Baptists preach the true Gospel
only Pentecostals preach the true Gospel
only dispensationalists preach the true Gospel
only Anglican/Episcopalians preach the true Gospel
the true Gospel is found in every denomination, but only Protestant denominations
the true Gospel is found in every denomination, whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or whatever

Take care.
Or my view is unique and my own, and Scott Harrington did not state any belief that I believe.
I believe the following ..... X .... the true, original Gospel of Jesus Christ

God bless you.

In Erie PA USA July 6, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[zone]

the true Gospel is found in every denomination, whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or whatever

of course this is true to an extent, isn't it scott?

Acts 18:10
for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.

(tell us how you really feel about the reformersand reformed scotty)

did you say OC has no opinion on the charismatic gifts of Corinth? has this ALWAYS been its position???

 

[Scotth1960]

of course this is true to an extent, isn't it scott?

Acts 18:10
for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.

(tell us how you really feel about the reformersand reformed scotty)

did you say OC has no opinion on the charismatic gifts of Corinth? has this ALWAYS been its position???

I believe that it has always been the tradition of the OC that the Church can say where the true Church is, but Orthodox Christians cannot say where the true Church is not. The Orthodox Church only has, basically, 7 ecumenical councils, unless you count the council of 879-880 as the 8th ecumenical council. In any case, the OC has not felt it necessary to define or refute every possible heresy. The Church gathers in ecumenical councils only a few times. The OC does not have as many ecumenical councils as the Roman catholic church, which professes to have 21. Orthodox theology is generally and basically apophatic and negative. We cannot know and define everything that is true and right about God. God remains a Mystery incomprehensible in terms of our finite human concepts. What the Church believes can basically be summarized rather simply in terms of the Creed of 381 AD, which is a revision and completion of the Creed of 325 AD. It is the same creed as the Creed of 325 AD, but a completion and completing of it to include more information on the Holy Spirit, the Church, and baptism, etc.
Orthodoxy is rather modest and does not try to figure everything out.
It does not rationalize and intellectualize and skepticize and doubt everything, or think about every possible doctrine in the Bible. Eventually, the Church will get to every last sentence of the Bible. In the meanwhile, Orthodoxy does not seek to rationalize God the way Calvinism does. It has always held the true Gospel: and Calvinism, for example, is a false Gospel.
Take care.
God bless you.
In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[zone]

I believe that it has always been the tradition of the OC that the Church can say where the true Church is, but Orthodox Christians cannot say where the true Church is not.

whats OC's position on pentecostalism?

 

[Scotth1960]

whats OC's position on pentecostalism?

Dear zone, I'm not sure if there is a definitive, widely-accepted opinion on Pentecostalism.
ISTM, some Orthodox Christians have been involved in the charismatic movement, at least just one or a few Orthodox priests, like Fr. Eusebius Stephanou. But I believe Fr. Stephanou is in the majority. Orthodoxy does not deny valid gifts of the Holy Spirit; but it warns all Orthodox Christians about possible spiritual deceptions, which the Orthodox call "prelest", (pronounced "PREE-LYEST"). The most widely accepted opinion on Pentecostalism of the OC, however, I believe, is that of the late blessed Fr. Seraphim (Eugene) Rose of Platina, CA, and the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood. See Fr. Seraphim's classic book:
Rose, Fr. Seraphim. (1999). Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. 4th edition. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood (St. Herman of Alaska Press). Available from St. Herman Press of Platina, CA, or on GOOGLE from Amazon.com, or check out your local libraries to read a copy of this excellent book.
This book by Fr. Seraphim tells the OC view of Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Pentecostalism, and of Hinduism, world religions, reincarnation, yoga, and UFOs. It is an interesting book.
God bless you.
In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[zone]

The most widely accepted opinion on Pentecostalism of the OC, however, I believe, is that of the late blessed Fr. Seraphim (Eugene) Rose of Platina, CA, and the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood. See Fr. Seraphim's classic book:
Rose, Fr. Seraphim. (1999). Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. 4th edition. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood (St. Herman of Alaska Press).

thank you scott.
what does he say? is there an online link? i searched and found nothing. just a statement if possible.

 

[VW]

The only one who preaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit.

If anyone else preaches the gospel, then at best it is only an imitation of Him.

Did you know that the so called early church fathers knew this?