Appears the rapture is happening, "The dead in Christ shall rise first,"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
garee said:
The first ressurection (rapture) is occurring. Today to be absent of this body of death is to be present dead asleep in the new heavenly Jerusalem(the bride of Christ)
In my understanding the resurrection is not occurring yet, I think you need to reread the Scriptures in this regard. Reading Revelation 20: v.4-5 we can know clearly who are the ones who will be resurrected first and will reign with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev. 20:v.4-5:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Yeah, the resurrection of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.)

The ressurrection will occur soon yes, as soon as comes to fulfil what is revealed in Rev.20:v.4-5. And more: verse 6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Oh yes, Rev. 5:v.10 states clearly, saying: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev. 5:11-14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the Cherubs and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power, and Riches, and Wisdom, and Strength, and Honour, and Glory, and Blessing.

13 And every creature which is in heaven (heaven is not the physical space of the Universe, but celestial or heavenly environment in Christ-Eph.1:v.3 among others), and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and Honour, and Glory, and Power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

14 And the four Cherubs said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
It began when Christ said it is finished the promised glory had come the graves were opened and the tens of thousands of old testament saint that had the Spirit of Christ in them entered in. It will continue to perform its work until the last day . Then the corrupted creation will be tossed into the lake of fire never to rise to new spirt life again forevermore....This is the second rapture, the or ressurection of our new incorruptible bodies. First new spirit second new body

The phrase last day, last time, or day of the Lord gives us the timing all in the twinkling of a eye. Not a literal thousand years between the first and the second rapture according to the parable(Revelation 20). . We are already over that by almost another literal thousand years . We walk by faith. No sign is given save the sign of Noah. It was fulfilled in all its entirty at the cross.

1 Thessalonians 4:v.13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (Who is this archangel: Daniel 12:1-4 reveal unt us:)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here is who is the archangel revealed by the apostle Paul to the Thessalonians: Daniel 12:v.1-4

1 And at that time (the time of END) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (JESUS confirmed this prophecy): and at that time (the present time) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end (the book is no longer sealed): many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
There is no literal mathematical formula to find the spiritual meaning in a parable. One day does not equal a thousand years.
Not me but you are making a literal mathematical formula saying: "One day does not equal a thousand years". You are saying that differently the Word of God (God is a title, the Word is the invisible God) , who says: (2Pe:3:v.8) 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that ONE Day is with the Lord (God) as a thousand years (in human calendar), and a thousand years ((in human calendar) as one Day (with the Lord (God).


What do you think the word thousand represents in those parables?
Not me, but what does the Word of God (God is a title, the Word is the invisible God) says? Who revealed Genesis to Moses around 2,500 years after Adam was God (i.e. two complete days and a half of a day), and who said first that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years was Moses. The apostle Peter quoted Moses when he said: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day". 2Pe.3:8

Rev. 20:v.6-7

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (For God will be as ONE Day)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
]In my understanding the resurrection is not occurring yet, I think you need to reread the Scriptures in this regard. Reading Revelation 20: v.4-5 we can know clearly who are the ones who will be resurrected first and will reign with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev. 20:v.4-5:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Yeah, the resurrection of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.)


The way I understand that parable in Revelation 20 is it speaks of those that had lived and reigned, are living and reigning with Christ a thousand years.(us today and yesterday)

The thousand years as a unknown amount of time represents the whole of the last days, beginning at the time of reformation. The same beginning of the first ressurection . The graves were open, nothing could hold back the tens of thousands old testament saints the price was paid in full . Until the last day when a person passes from this realm under the sun they are asleep waiting for the wake up call on the last day .Six times in the book of John the Holy Spirit underscores the timing of the end.

The ressurrection will occur soon yes, as soon as comes to fulfil what is revealed in Rev.20:v.4-5. And more: verse 6:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Oh yes, Rev. 5:v.10 states clearly, saying: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Yes the second ressurection at the end of the age, the last day, it has no power over the new creatures. .Judgment has been made and in the twinkling of the eye the second death goes up in smoke never to rise to new spirit life ever again .

last days, and last day references...

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 7:37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Acts 2:17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
Not me but you are making a literal mathematical formula saying: "One day does not equal a thousand years".
You are saying that differently the Word of God (God is a title, the Word is the invisible God) , who says: (2Pe:3:v.8) 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that ONE Day is with the Lord (God) as a thousand years (in human calendar), and a thousand years ((in human calendar) as one Day (with the Lord (God).


What does the metaphor mean? Is it a literal time factor or a metaphor and the spiritual meaning is hid? Is a thousand years time sensitive. Or does represent a unknown as the word thousand usually is used in the signified language of parables. Like Christ will come like a thief in the night, a unknown.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
Not me, but what does the Word of God (God is a title, the Word is the invisible God) says? Who revealed Genesis to Moses around 2,500 years after Adam was God (i.e. two complete days and a half of a day), and who said first that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years was Moses. The apostle Peter quoted Moses when he said: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day". 2Pe.3:8

Rev. 20:v.6-7

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (For God will be as ONE Day)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


The thousand years is as a day when used as a metaphor to represent a unknow. the word "as" denotes a parable is in view. A literal thousand is a thousand .A literal day is 24 hours. A literal thousand years 8,660,000 hours

First use of the word thousand to represent a unknown "all"... he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other:

Genesis 20:15-17 King James Version (KJV)And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.
And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved. So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.

Second reference to the word thousand used as a concealed ..used to represent the whole seed, Christ as a unknown

Genesis 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

Showing mercy to all of God's children represented by thousand an unknown.

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The list goes on.
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
As for the time of trouble that happens first, I believe we are entering this time.
Yes, I am sure of this. JESUS warned us, saying: When ye see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

The worse event will be the manifestation of the MAN OF SIN who is the son of perdition, the false messiah of the Jews, the own Satan incarnated, "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Have you ever thought how the planet earth will be with the presence of the own Satan incarnated, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (in Jerusalem), shewing himself that he is God? Rev. 12:v. 12-13 - 12 Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the Dragon (the red Dragon, the false messiah of the Jews) saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

JESUS said: Behold, I have told you before.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,881
1,224
113
You are right, absolutely right.



Here goes the names of the 24 elders already entronised in heaven: They are:
1 - Moses
2 - Joshua
3 - Samuel
4 - Ezra
5 - Nehemiah
6 - Job
7 - David
8 - Solomon
9 - Isaiah
10 - Jeremiah
11 - Ezekiel
12 - Daniel
13 - Hosea
14 - Joel
15 - Amos
16 - Obadiah
17 - Jonah
18 - Micah
19 - Nahum
20 - Habakkuk
21 - Zephaniah
22 - Haggai
23 - Zechariah

24 - Malachi
Where do you get this list from?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,957
1,527
113
The worse event will be the manifestation of the MAN OF SIN who is the son of perdition, the false messiah of the Jews, the own Satan incarnated,
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


There were many antichrists defined as those who say we must have a man seen to teach us because some how or other the Holy Spirit cannot keep his promise that as it (Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God) teaches us we abide in him not seen, not turning things upside down.

1 John 2:18Little children, it is the last time
: and as ye have heard that antichrist (singular) shall come, even now are there many (more than one) antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Not "will be" the last time. The warning below that reveals the nature of the spirit of the antichrist Satan , who speaks through the mouth of men many, antichrists

1 John 2:26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

There were many at that time already. God revealed the nature of the beast .It can be in respect to more than the flesh of one person used to bring the lies of Satan "the spirit of the antichrist(singular)" through many antichrists .

Which manifestation of a sinner typified as the MAN OF SIN will determine what he looks like?

lately I have been giving that some thought in regard to a possible example of what to look for, seeing the scripture does say antichrists were already here? Where ? How will we know?

The portion of scripture in Mathew 16 immediately following the Roman Catholics claim to false fame connected Peter teaching that he was the key that unlocks the gates of hell, and not the gospel seed the word of God.. It was almost like God had know that pattern before and he lifted his hand of humility with Peter and Peter fell in false pride as an example to us..

Peter acting as one of the many antichrists.... rebuked the lord of glory and forbid Christ of going forward with the work of the gospel.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew16:22-23

Peter was forgiven of His blasphemy against the Son of man ,Jesus .God does not accept honor and worship in respect to the things seen. The Son of man, Jesus, as us was empowered by the father to not wrestles against flesh and blood .But gave glory to the unseen father. Jesus did it perfectly, we stumble and fall and rise in new hope.

Now that the Son of man is no longer visible blasphemy against the Son of God not seen will not be forgiven .He is our one source of faith the same source of forgiveness .He will send a strong delusion to those who say we do need a man to teach us .We have the treasure of His power in our earthen bodies of death that works with us . Why look to Peter as Peter looked to John and created a oral tradition as a lie that John would not die as if he had eternal flesh. If every time Christ had to correct the false oral traditions of men .I suppose we would need to store the books that could of been written on other planets .This planet would run out of room


Matthew 12:31-32Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
67
Walk trough the valley
1 Thessalonians 4:v.13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (Who is this archangel: Daniel 12:1-4 reveal unt us:)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here is who is the archangel revealed by the apostle Paul to the Thessalonians: Daniel 12:v.1-4

1 And at that time (the time of END) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (JESUS confirmed this prophecy): and at that time (the present time) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end (the book is no longer sealed): many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Oseas, you convince me that what is happening: people being cough up to God is not part of the Resurrection, though I am perplexed, Its seems this word rapture is confusing. I accept the simplicity the time of trouble such as never was must happen and at that time Jesus returns at the last trump.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
8,716
1,687
113
There were many antichrists defined as those who say we must have a man seen to teach us because some how or other the Holy Spirit cannot keep his promise that as it (Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God) teaches us we abide in him not seen, not turning things upside down.
Recall, we should keep in mind that there is a distinction shown in the following:

--1 John 4:2 "Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ in flesh having come [perfect participle active] is of God. 3 And every spirit that confesses not Jesus Christ in flesh has come [or, 'having come' - perfect participle active] is not from God."

--2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming [present participle middle/passive] in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

There were many at that time already. God revealed the nature of the beast .It can be in respect to more than the flesh of one person used to bring the lies of Satan "the spirit of the antichrist(singular)" through many antichrists .

Which manifestation of a sinner typified as the MAN OF SIN will determine what he looks like?

lately I have been giving that some thought in regard to a possible example of what to look for, seeing the scripture does say antichrists were already here? Where ? How will we know?
I believe that "the man of sin" correlates with both Rev13:5-7 and Daniel 7:20-25 (among other passages), where v.20 describes him [as] "whose look was more stout than his fellows"

.He will send a strong delusion to those who say we do need a man to teach us .We have the treasure of His power in our earthen bodies of death that works with us . Why look to Peter as Peter looked to John and created a oral tradition as a lie that John would not die as if he had eternal flesh. If every time Christ had to correct the false oral traditions of men .I suppose we would need to store the books that could of been written on other planets .This planet would run out of room
Yeah, Scripture itself never tells us that he ["the disciple whom Jesus loved"/"that other disciple"/the writer of the Book we call "John"/etc, etc] was John. It doesn't say this, and I do not believe that it was (for various other reasons). Tradition says it was likely John, but I believe Scripture leads us to believe otherwise. BTW, this particular disciple ("the disciple whom Jesus loved"/"who leaned on His breast at supper"/etc etc) was the ONLY one (as I understand it) TO WHOM the IDENTITY of "the betrayer" was revealed. [speaking of Judas, of course, in that context]
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,881
1,224
113
From the book of the Lord
The specificity. Can you provide a direct reference? The only reference I see to the 24 elders mentions no names. Are you inferring based off something?

I do think it's a good point to mention that they are already there...which lends credence to past saints but at the same "time" the temporal reality is poorly understood.

I don't want to go off-topic, just wondering. Supposition is fine, if you feel you have some extra insight. It helps me to sort of navigate people's post depending on the amount of personal experience (like revelatory experiences) and just opinion enters in. Not that this is off base, or damages credibility, it's just helpful for me personally.

Thanks.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
8,716
1,687
113
I do think it's a good point to mention that they are already there...which lends credence to past saints […]
This is because it is a "judgment scene" (when Jesus will [future-ly]"STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13; Rev4-5; etc]); note where verse 1:1 says "...to shew unto His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass [the 'future' aspects of the book, like in 4:1 / 1:19c] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (4:1 starts the "things WHICH MUST COME TO PASS IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," not things which must transpire immediately, and/or over the course of some 2000 yrs [as the Historicist view has it]).

[24 elders / thrones and crowns/stephanos of gold]

[see also 1Cor6:3(14b); as well as the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" of Rom16:20 (pertaining HERE to "the Church which is His body")]
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,881
1,224
113
As to the OP, I don't like getting into when the return of the bridegroom is...I have no "exact" timeframe but I do think we can have an "idea" or "clue". To me that's what any future prophecy lends itself to.

That is not to say that it is not fact, just how we personally understand it, and how the Lord works it out in us is vague.

Consider that if you legitimately felt like the Lord was returning in 5 minutes some might spend the time penitent, some might watch the skies, some might just sit in silent meditation, some might go into a frenzy.

^That's what I mean as far as vague.

I've felt that time is VERY short for the last 2 years, and yet that may only be for me personally. The virgin parable is one that has been Impressed on me as well as that there are teaching out there on a period where grace is no more (I can't find the scripture reference currently). This could be for just you, or the body as a whole. I think it's across the board, but I am responsible for my person firstly and I appreciate the share and encouragement

There are times where I feel like "making ready" for the wedding is of utmost importance (in the last 6 months). This has been shared by "randoms" (people that I don't really know, but I meet and we are able to discuss such things and it's a topic they bring up "seemingly" out of nowhere) but this usually confirms that I am on the right track to a large extent. I have felt a "quickness" that I haven't ever felt before over the last year and it has definitely caused me to strive harder and fight against lukewarm notions.

What do you think the oil refers to?
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
... I am perplexed, Its seems this word rapture is confusing. I accept the simplicity the time of trouble such as never was must happen and at that time Jesus returns at the last trump.
Beloved, you're absolutely right, the word "rapture" is very confusing. I would say it's a doctrine of Devil, an apostasy that has departed many from faith giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

My focus is the Word of God and about Christians be caught (the separation of the wheat from the tares) as heirs of God's Kingdom, the Word of God reveals us that: "we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God". The question is that there will be war and Judgment against the red Dragon (he is the false messiah of the Jews, the son of perdition, a former Cherub, the own Satan incarnated), who has seven heads and 10 horns and a tail, a satanic triad that dominates the world today through powerful religious, political and economic structures, among others, created by the Devil to rule the nations.

The war and Judgment is and will be against the kingdom of the Devil, as prophesied Daniel saying: "judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom. Yes, the Judgment shall sit, and the people of God shall take the Kingdom and Dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Actually, the word "rapture" is very confusing. I would say it's a doctrine of Devil, an apostasy that has departed many from faith giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, and this fantasy of the false preachers of the Word of God (false prophets) speaking lies in hipocrisy, they have confounded the vision of God's people. JESUS warned saying: if it possible they will deceive the very elect.

Here is what the prophetic Psalms 149:v.5-9 says:

5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.

6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; (i.e.the Word of God. God is a title, the Word is the invisible God)

7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;

8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this Honour have all His saints. Praise ye the Lord.


We are in the time of Apocalypse, and the message for this time is: Revelation 2:v.26-29

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 11:v.15 & 18

15 The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, (yeah, the nations will be angry) and thy wrath is come (yeah, the wrath of the Most High God comes and will fall upon them all), and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
8,716
1,687
113
^ why does "stillness's post link" in Post #136 lead back to an unrelated post made in December 2008 (different poster altogether)?? Definitely has MY "ears" piqued. ;)
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
The specificity. Can you provide a direct reference? The only reference I see to the 24 elders mentions no names. Are you inferring based off something?
I don't want to go off-topic, just wondering. Supposition is fine, if you feel you have some extra insight. It helps me to sort of navigate people's post depending on the amount of personal experience (like revelatory experiences) and just opinion enters in. Not that this is off base, or damages credibility, it's just helpful for me personally. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, if I'm not wrong, it seems you felt I was rude to you, though that was not my intention. Answering your question, I must say

firstly that it is necessary to be incisive within the Word of God (God is a title, the Word is God, yeah the invisible God). The true Christians

can not work with speculations, or suppositions, or presumptions, within the Word of God, but revelations. If we look well, it is easy to

believe in fantasies that arising from speculations or presumptions, but it is hard to believe in revelations that comes from God by His

Spirit. Paul the Apostle explains better than I this interpretation that I do: 1Cor.2: 9 to14 among others Scriptures.



I do think it's a good point to mention that they are already there...which lends credence to past saints but at the same "time" the temporal reality is poorly understood.
I agree with you. To comment in that way, we need to analyze deeply the book of Revelation. We are living in the time of Apocalypse, and as it is written, it is the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that God should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and He should destroy them which destroy the earth through the manifestation of His wrath against the wicked nations ruled by the spirit of the Devil. (Source: Revelation 11:v.18)

Speaking of this time of Apocalypse, that is the time of end, and also it is the Lord's Day, we can see by the Spirit of God (Rev.1:v.1) that John the Apostle was caught and brought to this time, that is the Lord's Day, that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium.

The TRAVEL of John the Apostle to the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium

John the Apostle was caught for a travel to the future, in the space and in the time, spanning a period of two thousand years, and he was brought to our days, to this 7th and last Day or 7th and last millennium, that is the Lord's Day, and getting here he heard a great voice behind him, as of a trumpet, saying: "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;" (Note: trumpet means message, allegoricaly. And more: remember that God calls those things which be not as though they already were).

In this point, I must say that once the Apostle John was brought to our days in which we are living, the things which were written to

the seven Churches of Asia are simbols of the Churches of today, understand? Speaking spiritually, the list of good and bad things of

the Churches of Asia, be them right or wrong, be them true or fake, the things which happened in the Churches of Asia are the same

that also happen today in the Churches around the world. Terrible, very terrible, because the angels of the majority of the Churches

in Asia were tolerants with wrong behaviors spiritually and the same occurs in the Churches of today. This is not an accusation, this

is a fact, this explains the why the Churches are infested of apostasies and even idolatries and are reflected even in the forums.


The hours are advanced and I must go now, but I will come back to comment on what has been revealed about the 24 elders and their respective names.

You are welcome.
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
Hi brothers in Christ, I come back to continue the post above about the book of Apocalypse, where is written the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass, beyond great and wonderful mysteries like the 24 elders, and the sealed book, and the openning of sealed book and its seven seals, and so on.

I greet you all with Revelation 19:v.7-8 that says: Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

We are in the time of Apocalypse. John was brought in the Spirit on this seventh and last Day or seventh and last Millennium, that is the Lord's Day, and here he heard behind him a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying: "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia". What John did see and did write refers itself to the present time of Apocalypse, we must understand that the spiritual conditions of the seven Churches of Asia is only and only a reference, by which were/are showed the real conditions of the Churches of today, mainly the spiritual conditions of the angels of these Churches.


Yeah, the LEAD PASTORS of the Churches are denominated as angels in the book of Revelation. In these latter times they present themselves with titles such as Pastor, or Apostle, or Bishop, or Evangelists, or Ministers, among others, in any case they are termed as angels of the Churches, where they minister their preachings.

We are not in darkness that this Day could overtake us as a thief. What can we understand by the Word of God, reading the book of Revelation? As it is written, John was caught up in Spirit in the Lord's Day, i.e. he was brought unto this present time, time of Apocalypse, in which we are living. John saw what is hapenning today in all evangelical or Christian Churches of this time. The seven Churches of Asia of around two thousand years ago are a reference of the Churches in our days, to show to us as the Churches would be spiritually in this apocalyptic time. It is evident that the voice of prophecy could not mentioned explicitly, for example, names of Churches of today like Assemble of God, or Baptist Church, or Presbiterian, or Lutheran, among others, of course.


Again. The things were written to the angels of the Churches of Asia are adressed to the Churches or Ministries of today, yeah, the messages are adressed to the them which present themselves with titles such as Pastor, or Apostle, or Bishop, or Evangelists, or Ministers, among others, in any case they are termed as angels of the Churches, where they minister their preachings and the angel of each Church will be Judged now in the present time.

What are the spiritual conditions of the angels of the Churches today, or in this apocalyptical time, taking the seven Churches of Asia as a reference?


1 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Ephesus: Rev. 2:4-5 - 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

2 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Pergamos - Rev. 2:14-16 - 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

3 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Thyatira - Rev.2: 20-21 - 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

4 - Conditions of the angel of the angel of Sardis - Rev.3:1-3 - And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. (The dead praise not the Lord, ...(Psalms 115:v.17) 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

5 - Conditions of the angel of the church of Laodiceah - Rev.3:16-17 - 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and BLIND, and naked: (if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.)

6 - About the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, there was not problems with the angels of them, but whith the members and admirers of the Jews or inhabitants of Israel:
Rev. 2:v.9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev. 3:9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


All these things above are happening in the Churches of the present time, the time of Apocalypse, where many members or almost all members are admirers of the Jews in general, and discern not them which are liars and are of the synagogue of Satan.

Brethren, notice that until this moment described in Revelation chapters 1 to 3, the apostle St. John had not yet been caught up into heaven as is written in Revelation 4:v.1.

Revelation chapter 4

continues below
 
Mar 2, 2019
216
16
18
continuation of above
Revelation chapter 4

What will happen now with us Christians in this 7th and last millennium or 7th and last Day?

In fulfilment of what JESUS said,
"from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath".

So, my concern with all readers in this Christian forum is the manifestation of God's Truth.

The ascention of JESUS into heaven happened in the end of the 4th Day and beginning of the fifth Day. Thus God the Father had yet two more days of work to complete his works.

What did happen really after the ascention of JESUS to the heaven (by the way the 3rd heaven), exactly in the end of the fourth Day and beginning of the fifth Day? First He - JESUS - did sit at the right hand of the Father, and God the Father had yet two more days of work to complete His works. As all Christians know, the Omniscient, and Omnipotent, and Omnipresent God had planned since the beginning that His rest would be in the 7th and last Day, that is the 7th and last millennium. From there on, JESUS assumes the government and control not only of the planet Earth, but of the whole Universe. God had appointed JESUS heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. By the way, God had planned since the begining to restore all things in this last millennium or last Day, known as the time of end, called also time of Apocalypse, exactly in this millennium that just started and in which we are living.

The sealed book was with God the Father, written within and without and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woes as was seen by the prophet. Check it in Ezekiel 2:v.10

What the Most High had planned to happen in the Lord's Day was hidden, but it was written in a sealed book whose content did reveal all things to happen in this last Day, i.e in this last millennium that is the millennium of Christ, the end of the time. So, the content of the book would happen in the seventh and last Day exclusively. Well, this book would be the last of the Bible, the book of Apocalypse.

JESUS received the sealed book from the Father to reveal its contents
The people of God, mainly the true Christians, they need to remember and understand that it was yet the end of the fourth Day and the beginning of the fifth Day when JESUS ascended into heaven, or around two thousand years ago, by the way, the third heaven.

The sealed Book
The sealed book was with the Father and He gave it to JESUS. The next step was with JESUS in revealing the content of the book unto His people describing all things to John by a strong angel, actually an Archangel, whose things would happen in this last period of a thousand years, that is the Lord's Day, and the Millennium of Christ.

The TRAVEL of John the Apostle to the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, before be caught up to the heaven, the third heaven
John the Apostle was caught for a travel to the future, in the space and in the time, spanning a period of two thousand years, and he was brought to our days, to this 7th and last Day or 7th and last millennium, that is the Lord's Day, and getting here he heard a great voice behind him, as of a trumpet, saying: "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;" (Note: trumpet means message, allegoricaly. And more: remember that God calls those things which be not as though they already were).


In this point, I must say that once the Apostle John was brought to our days in which we are living, the things which were written to the seven Churches of Asia are simbols of the Churches of today, understand? Speaking spiritually, the list of good and bad things of the Churches of Asia, be them right or wrong, be them true or fake, the things which happened in the Churches of Asia are the same that also happen today in the Churches around the world. Terrible, very terrible, because the angels of the mojority of the Churches in Asia were tolerants with wrong behaviors spiritually and the same occurs in the Churches of today. This is not an accusation, this is a fact, this explains the why the Churches are infested of apostasies and even idolatries and are reflected in the forums.

Revelation 4:v.1 - Now the Apostle John was caught up again, this time from the Lord's Day where he was, to the third heaven where our Lord JESUS was and is yet

The point is - Revelation 4 - some Interpretations
- the 3rd heaven - the Kingdom of God
- The throne of the King
- the throne of 24 elders
- the seven lamps
- seven spirits of God
- the celestial ceremony
- the Cherubs
- the God's rest

The 3rd HEAVEN - The KINGDOM OF GOD -

As we can see through literal exposition above, firstly John was caught and he was brought here to our days, the days of Apocalypse, the Lord's Day, that is the 7th and last Day, showing the spiritual condition of the Churches of this present time.
Now, for the 2nd time, from the Lord's Day was John caught again to another environment, but now from the Lord's Day to the heaven, by the way, to the 3rd heaven, whose environment is of the Kingdom of God.


The KING'S THRONE and the 24 ELDERS

Having John gotten as a guest inside the 3rd heaven, or in the environment of the Kingdom of God, he did see that a throne was set and the King was sat on the throne. In this scenario, there were also more 24 thrones round the King's throne, and sat on the thrones John saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. These 24 elders are the 24 chosen men of the Most High God which did write the books of the Old Testament, beginning by Moses.

The 7 LAMPS - the 7 SPIRITS of GOD
There were also in this celestial environment seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God: The 7 spirits of God are: the spirit of wisdom, and the spirit of understanding, and the spirit of counsel, and the spirit of might, and the spirit of knowledge, and the spirit of fear of the Lord, and the holy spirit. From the throne came forth lightnings, voices and thunderings;

The GREAT CEREMONY and the GUESTS
During the great ceremony John did see that out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices, for there were many many guests at the ceremony and many voices.

The CHERUBS
In the great ceremony there were four Cherubs, and day and night they never stop saying “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty - JESUS -, which was, and is, and is to come. And when those Cherubs give glory and honour and thanks to Him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, then the four and twenty elders fall down before the Lord God and Almighty JESUS that was sat on the throne, and worship Him that lives for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou are worthy, O Lord, to receive Glory and Honour and Power: for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
From this exactly moment and since now, with the glorification of JESUS in heaven, begins the rest of God Father, the Word, and JESUS, the Son of God, the Word made flesh, though invisible for now, assumes the government and control not only of the whole Earth but also of the Universe, since the beginning of this seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, where the Churches suffer greatly under the existence of devilish apostasies.

Speaking of the future, the most important is to know that "God calls those things which be not or nonexistent as though they were".

⦁ In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords
⦁ Oseas