Are bikinis immodest?

[phil112]

when did we start looking at the man and not the message........................

"...........but we have the mind of Christ"
Do you know what it means to have the mind of Christ? Do you really?
You do understand that we are exhorted to think as Christ does, to make judgement as He would have us?

But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

You cannot get sweet water from a bitter well. You better believe we are supposed to consider the source. Sounds like you are a good example of that if you have learned from these media evangelists and yet your knowledge is not any deeper than you are showing.

 

[The_highwayman]

Maybe he preaches truth, but he doesn't live it. Just like the rest of the TV "evangelists", he has a pot of money and he shares it with no one. God never intended for preachers to become rich by preaching His word.
2 Corinthians 8:13,14 "For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality"

2 Corinthians 8.13-14 is not talking about preachers getting rich...to state this is wrong.....

Paul was telling the church at Corinth about how the church in Macedonia had been giving to the Church in Jerusalem, despite how poor they were. Paul continued to tell the Corinth church that they should continue giving as they had started, and only give according to what they could give and not according to what they could not. Then in Vs. 13-14 he warnes them not do so much that they lack and others have more than they do, but there should be equality between churches that if one has nothing, the other church will give to their lack and if vice verse.....

If you add Vs 1-11, you can see this clearly. you should really stop pasting verses out of context to support a pet peeve rather than a fact. 2 Cor 8. 1-15 is not even talking about what preachers get paid....

Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia: [SUP]2 [/SUP]that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing, [SUP]4 [/SUP]imploring us with much urgency that we would receive[SUP][a][/SUP] the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]So we urged Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also complete this grace in you as well. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But as you abound in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us—see that you abound in this grace also.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I speak not by commandment, but I am testing the sincerity of your love by the diligence of others. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And in this I give advice: It is to your advantage not only to be doing what you began and were desiring to do a year ago; [SUP]11 [/SUP]but now you also must complete the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to desire it, so there also may be a completion out of what you have. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; [SUP]14 [/SUP]but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality. [SUP]15 [/SUP]As it is written, “He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack.”

 

[Hizikyah]

Because as I have said to much focus is on the man and not the message. I would rather bash a guy for the message he preach rather than what he did last night. All of the OT greats failed and we will fail. I thank God that my failures were not blasted over tv and internet aren't you?

I meant a celeb screws up, and does drugs and slaps his wife or beats his children. we love them and become fan club members and buy all the memorabilia we can. But if a preacher makes one mistake, let's send him to hell.

Yeah I agree, I think it is in the "tabloid" type media that helps train people to be hypocritical. "Oh did you see what so and so did?" Knowing very well we all make mistakes.

As far as "church leaders" go.... My thing is some of them PUT themseves on a pedstal, acting like thye know every doctrine and walk rightly all the time. I think it would be important for a "church leader" to let their .....followers know they are not perfect, but I think that may hurt the pocket book...... so I think they feel obligated to put on a act...

But no my main intent was why leave the focus on David's error, yes it happened and it was written for our learning, but I always like to focus on the journey Yah took him after his error.... like many of us, our story doesn't stop at, "I used to do evil stuff"... but rather that is the backdrop for comparison, JMO. (yes David errored, but he learned from it, the true error would be not learning from it and continuing on the path of error, well because, Jesus died, so it's "ok" now.) and I am by no way implying you say this, but a carnal maind is looking for every opportunity to justify error, so that is why I mention it.

 

[Kerry]

I admit that when I was 12 I stole a pack of pencils that had all the NFL teams on them and a candy bar and some gum. But I didn't do it half naked. Then in my twenties I started drinking after preaching in my home church and teaching the adult sunday school class and I gave up and drank and drank and drank. I got of bed drinking and went to bed drinking, but I didn't do it half naked.
So when you go to the beach. why do have do it 3/4 naked? I wear a T-shirt because I have been sunburned before and I didn't like it, it gave me no pleasure.

The church by all means took the kids to a hawks game and at halftime they got to meet the players. I asked my son who was ten at the time what he thought about those players. His words "I don't know, but them cheerleaders sure are pretty"

 

[secularhermit]

You cannot live by societies norms. Society will be in continuous state of flux and a downward flux. When man sinned in the garden God made a covering for them because they were naked. They knew they were naked and tried to cover themselves because they sinned.

Today we seem to forget that we are sinners and we want to go about uninhibited by clothing. I wish to God that all of us would be ashamed at nakedness when we encounter it. Most times we don't have the sense God intended for us to have.

What got David in trouble if it was not the nakedness of Bathsheba?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

He had more than a dozen wives and x number of concubines... Was it HER nakedness?

By the way, at certain age, those hormones are not as high as when I was 25-30. It was another thing HE had in mind (while his army and warriors were fighting for the COMFORT of his throne, by the way)

 

[Kerry]

Yeah I agree, I think it is in the "tabloid" type media that helps train people to be hypocritical. "Oh did you see what so and so did?" Knowing very well we all make mistakes.

As far as "church leaders" go.... My thing is some of them PUT themseves on a pedstal, acting like thye know every doctrine and walk rightly all the time. I think it would be important for a "church leader" to let their .....followers know they are not perfect, but I think that may hurt the pocket book...... so I think they feel obligated to put on a act...

But no my main intent was why leave the focus on David's error, yes it happened and it was written for our learning, but I always like to focus on the journey Yah took him after his error.... like many of us, our story doesn't stop at, "I used to do evil stuff"... but rather that is the backdrop for comparison, JMO. (yes David errored, but he learned from it, the true error would be not learning from it and continuing on the path of error, well because, Jesus died, so it's "ok" now.) and I am by no way implying you say this, but a carnal maind is looking for every opportunity to justify error, so that is why I mention it.

Thanks HIZ, not looking for an excuse hear either, I have no excuse. If I sin I did it because I wanted to and was seduced , but i made the decision to do it. Thats why I must keep my faith focused on the work of the cross and the Holy Spirit who is greater than he that is the world will work in my favor and direct me and keep me. and not half naked.

 

[Hizikyah]

I admit that when I was 12 I stole a pack of pencils that had all the NFL teams on them and a candy bar and some gum. But I didn't do it half naked. Then in my twenties I started drinking after preaching in my home church and teaching the adult sunday school class and I gave up and drank and drank and drank. I got of bed drinking and went to bed drinking, but I didn't do it half naked.
So when you go to the beach. why do have do it 3/4 naked? I wear a T-shirt because I have been sunburned before and I didn't like it, it gave me no pleasure.

The church by all means took the kids to a hawks game and at halftime they got to meet the players. I asked my son who was ten at the time what he thought about those players. His words "I don't know, but them cheerleaders sure are pretty"

Maybe the world needs to stop training young women to dress like that? Seems there is a book somewhere that has a section explaining what conduct is proper and what conduct is not proper...

But that part of the book is called a "curse" CRAZY....

 

[The_highwayman]

Back to tv preachers, does this include internet and youtube preachers as well?

It goes for anyone who preaches a false Gospel that states:
1) only the cross saves you
2) that the cross is the only thing that matters and that the resurrection means nothing and is not part of salvation
3) Jesus is still on the cross today

Swaggert and his son Donnie, grandson Gabriel and all his preachers male and female have stated all 3 things above and routinely state them.

I watched him one night claim, I hate to say it brothers and sisters, but even the resurrection and the Spirit raising that broken and battered body to life, is nothing in light of the Cross.....

Before the sexcapades he was involved, in came to light, he was counseled routinely for preaching this message, which was against AOG 16 points of Doctrine...

 

[Hizikyah]

Thanks HIZ, not looking for an excuse hear either, I have no excuse. If I sin I did it because I wanted to and was seduced , but i made the decision to do it. Thats why I must keep my faith focused on the work of the cross and the Holy Spirit who is greater than he that is the world will work in my favor and direct me and keep me. and not half naked.

Im with you. (excet for the "work of the Cross" symantics, but "the work of Messiah", for a piece of wood did nothing Yah did it all.)

 

[Hizikyah]

It goes for anyone who preaches a false Gospel that states:
1) only the cross saves you
2) that the cross is the only thing that matters and that the resurrection means nothing and is not part of salvation
3) Jesus is still on the cross today

Swaggert and his son Donnie, grandson Gabriel and all his preachers male and female have stated all 3 things above and routinely state them.

I watched him one night claim, I hate to say it brothers and sisters, but even the resurrection and the Spirit raising that broken and battered body to life, is nothing in light of the Cross.....

Before the sexcapades he was involved, in came to light, he was counseled routinely for preaching this message, which was against AOG 16 points of Doctrine...

I think that doctrine keeps people from knowing Him, and the carnal mind enjoys it because "its party time!" where if one gets to know Him they will not have the "strength" to do as they used to.

 

[Kerry]

He had more than a dozen wives and x number of concubines... Was it HER nakedness?

By the way, at certain age, those hormones are not as high as when I was 25-30. It was another thing HE had in mind (while his army and warriors were fighting for the COMFORT of his throne, by the way)

Just to give an idea of how times have changed for the worse. Well I knew an old saint that 85 years old and he is with the Lord now and this was about 15 years ago. He was asked what is the greatest invention in his life was and he answered "electricity". Then he was asked what he did for excitement as young man or teenager, His reply " well if was raining we would go into town and sit on the board walk and watch the ladies cross the street, you see they would have lift their skirts to keep them out of the mud and we would get to see their ankles"

 

[The_highwayman]

I think that doctrine keeps people from knowing Him, and the carnal mind enjoys it because "its party time!" where if one gets to know Him they will not have the "strength" to do as they used to.

Hiz, exactly why I am so against it.

We serve a risen savior....

 

[secularhermit]

I believe that all private parts should be covered. Then you have different opinions on what parts are private. For me I believe cleavage is nakedness, but crack, and but cheeks. But unlike some, I don't believe belly, back, shoulders, arms, legs, or feet are nakedness/private areas. I think it is possible for a bikini to cover enough, depending on what kind. Cause some bikinis are what I call rectal floss. These thong bikinis that only cover a lady's private in the front but nothing in the back, and cover only the nipples and not the breasts, should be outlawed.

Some people get rediculous about it though, saying we shouldn't even wear shorts. God does not do favoritism. If the church can't wear shorts in Alaska, then the church can't wear shorts in the Bahamas. If an adult can't wear shorts, then neither can babies, toddlers, kids, or teens. If women have to be covered head to toe, so do men, even in the Bahamas. I highly doubt God covered Adam and Eve from head to toe after they'd been found naked. Some people say you can't even get naked to bathe- it gets really rediculous and controlling. I cannot get too hot, I get heat stroke. I'm wearing shorts and a teeshirt in summer no matter what anyone says.

What´s the reason a piece of cloth is made for? To swim WELL or to show less?

If I hide, why do I need to hide anything? (and what for I do it publicly?)

Both extremes could be thought as immodesty.

Adam and Eve were ALONE and, after the fall, God Himself covered THEM well (not with a simple leaf): Gen 3:21 The LORD God fashioned garments from animal skins for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.

 

[Kerry]

It goes for anyone who preaches a false Gospel that states:
1) only the cross saves you
2) that the cross is the only thing that matters and that the resurrection means nothing and is not part of salvation
3) Jesus is still on the cross today

Swaggert and his son Donnie, grandson Gabriel and all his preachers male and female have stated all 3 things above and routinely state them.

I watched him one night claim, I hate to say it brothers and sisters, but even the resurrection and the Spirit raising that broken and battered body to life, is nothing in light of the Cross.....

Before the sexcapades he was involved, in came to light, he was counseled routinely for preaching this message, which was against AOG 16 points of Doctrine...

your misconstrued and don't know what your talking about. The only reason he left the AOG is because he refused to go through their preacher restoration program and the AOG lost 25 million a year from his donations. It hurt both sides. but if this had not happened to Swaggart we would not have this message of the cross teaching today. I Meant he is not God. but I do enjoy listening to the truth that he and his son and grandson and Lauren Lawson and they others preach and so enjoy the anointed music that they sing. I meant if God can forgive him, then why can't I. also it seems to me that God is blessing this ministry that many said will not work.

4 million a month to pay for the network and it comes in every month. Guess I'm not alone, because I don't have that kind of money. Seems that most American christians are willing to forgive for a message that actually works and is not some fad.

 

[secularhermit]

If it was my wife being seen dressed immodestly, I will be concerned.

If it is I who sees another.... "No problem! It´s too hot to be dressed up out there"

 

[Hizikyah]

Hiz, exactly why I am so against it.

We serve a risen savior....

THIS IS IT.

This is the difference between the false message and the true message.

(I know there are infinite ways to lie and only one truth)

The "savior" taught in some churches..... is not Yahshua (Jesus).. I might catch some flak for this, but it's true, I have to say it. The "savior" taught by some is actually satan, if the doctrine is "we killed Him, you are free from having to quit being evil" that is satan. Now one can say, Ive NEVER heard that"....semantics, perfume on a pig... it's still a pig. No matter to the preachers dazzling words that play to the flesh, if the message is licentious, it is satan. If the Message is that of following what Yahshua says its of Yah.

Why did satan want to kill Him so bad? To stop His preaching, His preaching was perfect. and now there are these doctrines that the Messiah words are part of the "OT" pre-Sacrifice, and therefore obsolete.... what a evil doctrine that is....

from other thread but exactly what im saying"

Our Savior made a great witness of truth:

Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

And not only will His words not pass, but they are the very standard.

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

And not only by the admission of Yahshua Himself but Mosheh, inspired by Yahweh said the same thing:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

 

[secularhermit]

Mat 17:5 He was still speaking when a bright cloud suddenly overshadowed them. A voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him. Keep on listening to him!"

 

[Hizikyah]

Mat 17:5 He was still speaking when a bright cloud suddenly overshadowed them. A voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him. Keep on listening to him!"

Matt 17:6 "And when the disciples heard this, they were very frightened and fell on their faces."

 

[Kerry]

THIS IS IT.

This is the difference between the false message and the true message.

(I know there are infinite ways to lie and only one truth)

The "savior" taught in some churches..... is not Yahshua (Jesus).. I might catch some flak for this, but it's true, I have to say it. The "savior" taught by some is actually satan, if the doctrine is "we killed Him, you are free from having to quit being evil" that is satan. Now one can say, Ive NEVER heard that"....semantics, perfume on a pig... it's still a pig. No matter to the preachers dazzling words that play to the flesh, if the message is licentious, it is satan. If the Message is that of following what Yahshua says its of Yah.

Why did satan want to kill Him so bad? To stop His preaching, His preaching was perfect. and now there are these doctrines that the Messiah words are part of the "OT" pre-Sacrifice, and therefore obsolete.... what a evil doctrine that is....

from other thread but exactly what im saying"

Our Savior made a great witness of truth:

Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

And not only will His words not pass, but they are the very standard.

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

And not only by the admission of Yahshua Himself but Mosheh, inspired by Yahweh said the same thing:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

how can you have a risen saviour with out the cross. I meant, He had to die in order to be risen. Or are you eating a double cheeseburger and drinking a diet coke?

His resurrection put the stamp on the cross.

 

[The_highwayman]

your misconstrued and don't know what your talking about. The only reason he left the AOG is because he refused to go through their preacher restoration program and the AOG lost 25 million a year from his donations. It hurt both sides. but if this had not happened to Swaggart we would not have this message of the cross teaching today. I Meant he is not God. but I do enjoy listening to the truth that he and his son and grandson and Lauren Lawson and they others preach and so enjoy the anointed music that they sing. I meant if God can forgive him, then why can't I. also it seems to me that God is blessing this ministry that many said will not work.

4 million a month to pay for the network and it comes in every month. Guess I'm not alone, because I don't have that kind of money. Seems that most American christians are willing to forgive for a message that actually works and is not some fad.

Kerry, dig deep and stop being glib. He was defrocked, because he would not give up SBN for 2 years until he was restored and when he was defrocked the AG let him go.

Yes it hurt both sides and the AG was not a saint either, because they were slow in delivering the medicine because of all the money at stake....he never left the AG, he was defrocked because he would not submit to his own denomination for restoration.

His doctrine is false...

$4 MILLION coming for people that have no clue and won't dig for themselves that his gospel has turned the cross into an idol, keeps Jesus hanging on the cross and dead and believes that the resurrection means nothing...

Try wathcing every service that swaggert preached last year for 2014 Easter Camp meeting...he himself and his boy and Lauren, Jim and all his merry men all state plainly that the cross is all it is about, we do not care about resurrection, ole Lauren even admonished people not to Worry about every reading pasrts of Romans 10.9-10, God raising him from the dead is not nearly as dear as understanding the cross...and not needed for salvation....

We will agree to disagree kerry, but check this doctrine and all his vids, he sneaks it in, when you least expect it....
If Jesus is still dead we have a problem and Swaggert keeps him dead, because it keeps his own conscience free from guilt and allows him to live in fantasy land about his own issues.

Besides, the fruit of his son, grandson and many of his preachers bears witness to immorality, pride, arrogance and fraud...

a fool and his money are soon departed