Are curses still relevant to the Christians?

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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#61
(I would sort of say the same thing brother it’s about the gospel now if we hear and reject the gospel none of the promises he makes apply to us it’s all based on believing the word of Jesus Christ that removes all curses)



I agree 100%



(but if we live on opposed to his word we’re only embracing the curse)



No true Christian could just live on with sinning. It should now be a work in progress by the Holy Spirit. We are no longer sinful in nature but sin-less as sanctification takes place.



(and I think we’re seen as we are in Christ of we’re living sinful lives when we know better we’re not seen as sinless we have to come to repentance and be seen as disciples of Christ not sinners willfully continuing in the old ways of sin

And death but imperfect believers walking after and following the blessings of the lords living word freely given to us



we’re seen as new people but if we go back to Our old ways well it’s not as of God doesn’t see what we’re doing. We can still put ourself in the curse of we reject Jesus and the gospel.



we do not have to be perfect but we do have to hear and believe his doctrine and that will teach us repentance and righteousness blessi nt is all that exists in Christ but we’re still free to choose every day we make choices that either bless or curse)



I have read everyone's point of view as going into this I was not 100% sure if curses are still applicable under a new covenant. This is my understanding so far.

Hebrews 10:14-18
New International Version
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
Curses are related to personal sin or generational sin.

In Hebrews 10 verse 14 we see that one sacrifice made us Christians perfect forever. The Holy Spirit in us testifies to this truth as we are guided by His Word. Verse 17 says their sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more. Not one sin but sins in plural.

Romans 8:1-4
New International Version
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


There is no condemnation because we have been set free from the law of sin and death. Jesus condemned sin in the flesh and the righteous requirement of the law is not imparted onto us. We are now seen as righteous.

Romans 6
New International Version
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?


As any Christian knows, we still struggle with sin. But the key truth to remember is we no longer are slaves to sin. We now have given our life to Christ, a slave, a servant, a child, and a disciple.

The temple dedicated to sacrifice and worship by the Israelites contained a veil that separated the Holy of Holies (the dwelling place of God’s presence). The rest of the temple was where men worked their ceremonial duties. It signified that mankind was separated from God due to sin (Isaiah 59:1-2).

The curtain veil in the temple was split in half on the day of Jesus's death to represent that separation was no longer necessary. The day of Pentecost as the Holy Spirit came down and engulfed the apostles shows that not only are we no longer separated but we now have God’s Spirit living in us.

We have a relational God who now guides us full of grace, patience, and love as the element of justice has already been met. If we sin we only hurt our relationship from our side of the spectrum. We still can reap earthly damage but the only spiritual damage we can reap is not a curse but a disconnection to God as sin takes our attention away, fills us with guilt, shame, hate, anxiety, fear, etc and Satan can feed on these to further distract us.[/QUOTE/]

A lot of agreement throughout there I would offer this for consideration regarding who is righteous

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7-8, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to first accept the gospel and then we have to put it into practice
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
3,376
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#62
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. .

so can someone tell me how this is not a self imposed curse?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,178
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#63
Jesus Himself removes the Curse.

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

We HAVE to get this right.
Is this curse the same as the examples in the OP that the pastor spoke of? Could a Christian be cursed with addiction and would need to break the curse?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,743
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#64
Generational, mental illness, undiagnosed sickness, feminine problems related not being able to get pregnant or menstrual issues, rampant divorce, etc. (This list was given by a church we visited)

Are curses still relevant to the Christians? We sometimes hear we can be battling curses that keep us from blessings.

Blessings are Biblical
Curses are Biblical
But in what context do they apply to the Christian today?

I personally do not see much info pertaining to a Christian in the New Testament related to how to defeat curses.
I believe we are as Adam descendant are under curse. But Jesus offer salvation from eternal curse if we believe His teaching.
I believe God not create a man to die, I think if Adam not fall in sin, he never die and not growth old like in the 30 forever because of sin he is under curse.
But because of sin he is mortal.
After believe Jesus, we still mortal, but not go to hell.
Jesus save us from hell, but not from mortal, there is exception for Elijah and henogh the rest of us still under the curse of mortal
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#65
I believe we are as Adam descendant are under curse. But Jesus offer salvation from eternal curse if we believe His teaching.
I believe God not create a man to die, I think if Adam not fall in sin, he never die and not growth old like in the 30 forever because of sin he is under curse.
But because of sin he is mortal.
After believe Jesus, we still mortal, but not go to hell.
Jesus save us from hell, but not from mortal, there is exception for Elijah and henogh the rest of us still under the curse of mortal
amen that’s why we need to believe what Jesus was saying about repentance and remission of sins and eternal Life and being brought out of death. It’s all connected and always has been
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#66
Is this curse the same as the examples in the OP that the pastor spoke of? Could a Christian be cursed with addiction and would need to break the curse?
You just blew me away. Wow.

You know what? I began explaining my position and realized that what I was writing was wrong. Or, at least it seems to be.

As I understand, the removal of the Curse of the Lord is only one side of the entire Adamic Curse. As I understand, the two sides are:

1) The Curse of the decaying physical world. All of creation is groaning, and that includes our bodies. Are bodies are still subject to decay and death.

2) The Curse of the Lord, which is God turning, or handing the human heart over to Satan, who thus is the spiritual father of all when they are born. We are born with naturally hardened hearts, thus the need for Redemption; the need for the Circumcision of Christ.

Jesus Redeems us from the Curse of the Sinful Nature while we are alive. But, after we die, it seems that He Redeems us from physical death, for we will continue to Live with Him in Paradise, providing that we were made Right with God by believing in the Power of the Resurrection of Christ (while we were alive).

Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."

But for those who had died in times past, they were given the chance to be made right with God after Christ had lived and died.

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

So, perhaps that church WAS right about some of the things on that list.

What a great thread. You have really challenged me, and I appreciate that so much!!! You have just helped clarify some things in my mind. I love it when that happens. I cannot thank you enough, roughsoul!
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
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#67
Jesus did not remove or break any curses. Curses are an integral part of the Law.

Galatians 3:13 says:

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Notice it does not say He broke the curse of the Law. It says He became the curse. Also, notice verse 13 is stated in the past tense. Compare this to three verses earlier:

“For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.””
Galatians 3:10

This is Paul, referring to the curse of the Law in the present tense. Therefore, this proves Jesus did not break it. Three verses later, Paul references the curse again. Does it seem likely he was discussing a different kind of curse in this singular discussion? Anyone trying to argue he was, has a hard row to hoe.

Jesus is the Word became flesh. The Law is the Word. The curses in the Law are the Word of God. Therefore, if Christ were to break the curses, He would be breaking His own Law and that would be a kingdom divided against itself.

The answer to why we are not subject to the curse of the Law is found in Romans Chapter 7:1-6,

“Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”

We died in Christ, therefore we died to the Law and its curses.

Now, we are still subject to the law of sowing and reaping as made clear in Galatians 6:7-8,

“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”

Again, Romans 7 verse 6:

“But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”

We are under a New Covenant, not the Old Covenant of the written code. We have died to that and are buried in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 2:13-14 is an incredible passage that sheds light,

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

… he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

It doesn’t say a scroll of the Law and Prophets were nailed to the cross. Jesus is the Law. It was He that was nailed to the cross. Our legal indebtedness is to Him. We sinned against Him—The Word—and He saved us from the death we owed Him. Hallelujah!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#68
No true Christian could just live on with sinning. It should now be a work in progress by the Holy Spirit. We are no longer sinful in nature but sin-less as sanctification takes place. .
I think this is the key to protecting ourselves from curses. Scripture lists sin as our worst curse, it condemns us to death. It is only faith is Christ that protects us from this curse, and it protects us from all kinds of curses.

But faith in Christ alone does nothing. Demons have faith, they know all that Christ is and can do, but they act as an enemy. We are to put his word in our heart and minds and act on it, that proves our faith. Christ looks at our repentance to determine our belief in him.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#69
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
That's a bad translation. The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy.

Romans 7:12 NKJV - "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

Is "Thou shall not muder" a curse? "Love the neighbor" is a curse? Christ Redeems us of these things?

Instead, the NLT has Galatians 3:13 right. It reads this way . . .

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

As you can see, it is quite the opposite of what you have offered. Sorry . . . but it's good to find out sooner than later. This will be a total game changer for your theology. It's huge. Now read Colossians 2:9-15 and those Seven amazing verses will come alive! BTW: Pastors don't teach Col 2:9-15 because they've got it totally screwed up. They don't even mention it . . . EVER!

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
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#70
Both are good translations. I don't think you are following the line of logic, and you proved it here:

"The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy."

I might recommend you take a gander at Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Lost of curses are in there--all from God. All curses are from God therefore all are good and holy.

Sorry, better for you to find out now.
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
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#72
That's a bad translation. The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy.

Romans 7:12 NKJV - "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

Is "Thou shall not muder" a curse? "Love the neighbor" is a curse? Christ Redeems us of these things?

Instead, the NLT has Galatians 3:13 right. It reads this way . . .

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

As you can see, it is quite the opposite of what you have offered. Sorry . . . but it's good to find out sooner than later. This will be a total game changer for your theology. It's huge. Now read Colossians 2:9-15 and those Seven amazing verses will come alive! BTW: Pastors don't teach Col 2:9-15 because they've got it totally screwed up. They don't even mention it . . . EVER!

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
I would recommend you slow down and actually read the text. I know you want to be perceived as an expert but you're not. You are wrong on several points. I am happy to have a discussion with you but perhaps we can get rid of the adolescent, "Sorry...but it's good to find out sooner than later." Who knows, you may find you are way over your head and feel foolish later. Shall we discuss it civilly?

For instance it is Paul, who discusses the curse of the Law and this is borne out across all good translations. Moreover, the curse of the Law is good, and it is holy.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#73
I am happy to have a discussion with you but perhaps we can get rid of the adolescent, "Sorry...but it's good to find out sooner than later."
How rude. I was actually very sincere. I meant no harm in those words. However, your retort showed me your attitude, thus again, I will say it . . . I will leave you alone and not bother you until you can get over yourself. Good grief. "Christians" are so bloody sensitive.
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
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#74
Lol - Ok. I'll leave you alone. Sorry to have bothered you.
You don't have to leave me alone and you don't bother me. However, if you fire at me, I can fire back. let's not do that. Instead, show me where I am wrong.
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
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#75
How rude. I was actually very sincere. I meant no harm in those words. However, your retort showed me your attitude, thus again, I will say it . . . I will leave you alone and not bother you until you can get over yourself. Good grief. "Christians" are so bloody sensitive.
Oh so now you are running away. Well next time choose less condescending language.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,037
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#76
Both are good translations. I don't think you are following the line of logic, and you proved it here:

"The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy."

I might recommend you take a gander at Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Lost of curses are in there--all from God. All curses are from God therefore all are good and holy.

Sorry, better for you to find out now.
amen , the law could have been a blessing that would have made israel Gods nation and they would have ruled the earth.

or it could be a curse and would curse them first and part of that curse on them. Was to scatter them into the earth being a curse for all the nations they were scattered into. They fulfilled the curse by breaking the law covenant

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard for people to change what they think but the law is exactly what it states it wasnt blessing or curse. But based on what they did either obeying it completely or not obeying it and straying to other Gods it would determine either a blessing or curse on the earth.

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the groves.

…. And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the Lord.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭3:7, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot is a record of that repeating itself until Gods forebearance ran out and the curse was set in place

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it could have been a blessing or a curse they fulfilled the curse because they didn’t keep it all

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
93
11
8
#77
amen , the law could have been a blessing that would have made israel Gods nation and they would have ruled the earth.

or it could be a curse and would curse them first and part of that curse on them. Was to scatter them into the earth being a curse for all the nations they were scattered into. They fulfilled the curse by breaking the law covenant

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard for people to change what they think but the law is exactly what it states it wasnt blessing or curse. But based on what they did either obeying it completely or not obeying it and straying to other Gods it would determine either a blessing or curse on the earth.

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the groves.

…. And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the Lord.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭3:7, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot is a record of that repeating itself until Gods forebearance ran out and the curse was set in place

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it could have been a blessing or a curse they fulfilled the curse because they didn’t keep it all

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Thanks for the Amen.

I have been studying and writing about curses for a decade now, and have had to change my mind over and over again the more I have learned. I have found that people are remarkably committed to their ideas about curses. I have theorized this results from all the colloquial use of the word, and how they are portrayed in media. How many books, movies, TV shows all have curse in the title and or themes? I'll bet it is in the thousands. We hear the the word as children in cartoons. It is natural for us to impose our prejiduces upon the text. I know I have to constantly fight that. However, the text is the text.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,037
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#78
Thanks for the Amen.

I have been studying and writing about curses for a decade now, and have had to change my mind over and over again the more I have learned. I have found that people are remarkably committed to their ideas about curses. I have theorized this results from all the colloquial use of the word, and how they are portrayed in media. How many books, movies, TV shows all have curse in the title and or themes? I'll bet it is in the thousands. We hear the the word as children in cartoons. It is natural for us to impose our prejiduces upon the text. I know I have to constantly fight that. However, the text is the text.
amen I think the ability to let scripture correct our prior thoughts is key. Of we let the scripture become how we think it always is going to change what we think and believe . Then how we act is the result

I have come to the conclusion that we need to come to Christ as children not already knowing anything so we can as children learn of the father

pride is the enemy of any Christian wanting understanding because as you state there one day we’re convinced we have it all figured then ten years later we realize how immature and misinformed our beliefs were beforehand because we’ve learned

the ability to be corrected by the scriptire is an enormous strength in Christian life
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,828
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#79
You don't have to leave me alone and you don't bother me. However, if you fire at me, I can fire back. let's not do that. Instead, show me where I am wrong.
I never fired at you. And, no thanks.