Are curses still relevant to the Christians?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
yeah brother the thing is we also have to repent that’s the very first thing Jesus said when he began preaching the gospel repentance is part of salvation



Repentance doesn’t mean you now are never capable of sinning again it means your mind is set against sin , but again if we realize we’ve done wrong later we have to repent





I do know people a lot of them I don’t think thier actions matter and they are already “sinless “ but that doesn’t jive with this stuff that’s throughout the New Testament





“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬



It’s not as if God doesn’t see what we do we have to repent when we’ve done wrong and have to acknowledge our sin to God like David did that’s why God saw him hat way when he pretended he hadn’t sinned v when he finally confessed and acknowledged his sin



“Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.



When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.



I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.



For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”

‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬



when we know we’ve done wrong in Gods sight what matters is will we acknowledge it and repent ? Or will we keep silence and pretend we didn’t sin or God doesn’t care ? The New Testament is about repentance and remission of sin



David understood this part and so should we



“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭



I’m not a works of the cross alone person bro I believe Gods sees every deed as it is that’s why it’s about repentance in my view we have to also believe the gospel Jesus preached that calls us to repentance



“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭



repentance is key and so is believing the word of Christ that’s what brings us to repent when we get real with God and acknowledge our sins to him in repentance and turn towards the gospel that’s able to teach us what righteousness is



We need to accept that sin is death and poison for us because it is and we also need to grasp that Jesus said if we repent he will forgive our sins and wash them away


It’s not as if God doesn’t see what we do we have to repent when we’ve done wrong and have to acknowledge our sin to God



I’m not a works of the cross alone person bro I believe Gods sees every deed as it is that’s why it’s about repentance in my view we have to also believe the gospel Jesus preached that calls us to repentance
I'm not saying repentance is not an ongoing task of the Christian I’m simply saying it is not what gains salvation.
If you sinned and your sin caused you immediate physical death, would you see salvation or not?

Are we saved through repentance or faith?

Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Initial repentance doesn’t save us, it simply brings us to the Savior.

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Repentance has two elements. Saving or initial repentance and continual repentance. Saving repentance is to acknowledge that we are sinners and need Jesus. At this point of accepting Jesus we are saved. Christ died once for sins and repentance after salvation involves our relationship. As the Holy Spirit dwells in us, we will be bothered by sin and we will be in a constant turning away from sin as we are made holy.

Romans 5:1-11 NIV
5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.


(We are justified through faith and gained access by faith into grace.)


6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


(While still sinners, Christ died for us. There is nothing we could do but only submit or give in. We are powerless to save ourselves and repentance leads us to this understanding. )


9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.


(Justified by His blood, reconciled as He paid the debt of sin. All of our sin as to why we must understand our sins as a Christian will cause heartache, trouble, and internal turmoil but the only way they affect salvation is if you reject the gift of grace, reject Jesus. Living in sin is a fruit of rejecting Jesus. If practiced enough, it is like a cancer to the body. If left unchecked (not repentful) then it can start to decay your faith. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. So if our faith decays, so can your belief, and then as Jesus says for those who do not abide in the vine. They will be cut off and thrown into the fire.

Conclusion: repentance is extremely important within proper context. )
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
So much of the confusion surrounding the subject of curses is language. We have colloquialized the word curse to such a degree that the biblical understanding of the word is lost. Moreover, the Bible has colloquial examples of the word such as Psalm 102:8,

"All day long my enemies taunt me;
those who rail against me use my name as a curse."


The idea here is not that his enemies could cause a supernatural curse by invoking the psalmist’s name. Often, biblical references to curses are more in line with what we consider profanity. Sorting through the language is like slicing up a bucket of water.

When we look at God’s direct use of the word, it always suggests a judgement with divine supernatural effects imposed on individuals, groups, the earth, even a fig tree.

Are Christians subject to curses the same as God’s covenant people in the Old Testament? I have looked at this carefully for many years and can find no evidence that we are. That said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I’ve not concluded with complete certainty that we are in no way, shape, or form subject to His curses; however, I am about 98% sure we are not. We certainly are subject to His discipline. I think it wise not to fall into the colloquial language trap by using that word inappropriately. When we do, we inadvertently add to the confusion on this subject.

Through the years, I have been in countless dialogs on the subject, and many make claims about curses, but they can never substantiate them in the scripture. I am always astonished at how emotionally committed people are to their version of the subject; especially when it comes to generational curses. It is almost impossible to reason people out of their non-biblical ideas when they did not depend on a careful study of the scripture to gain their initial concepts.
I agree 100%.

The pastor told a story about his friend who had 3 dragons sculptures passed down from his deceased father. The friend kept feeling the Spirit urging him to get rid of those dragons because they carried a curse against his family. He finally did and within a day his inheritance loan that was being held up for years immediately went through. His income doubled, bought a house, sold the house, etc.

At like minute 15 give or take he tells this story.


Sounds odd to me.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
6,513
2,227
113
I'm not saying repentance is not an ongoing task of the Christian I’m simply saying it is not what gains salvation.
If you sinned and your sin caused you immediate physical death, would you see salvation or not?

Are we saved through repentance or faith?

Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Initial repentance doesn’t save us, it simply brings us to the Savior.

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Repentance has two elements. Saving or initial repentance and continual repentance. Saving repentance is to acknowledge that we are sinners and need Jesus. At this point of accepting Jesus we are saved. Christ died once for sins and repentance after salvation involves our relationship. As the Holy Spirit dwells in us, we will be bothered by sin and we will be in a constant turning away from sin as we are made holy.

Romans 5:1-11 NIV
5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.


(We are justified through faith and gained access by faith into grace.)


6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


(While still sinners, Christ died for us. There is nothing we could do but only submit or give in. We are powerless to save ourselves and repentance leads us to this understanding. )


9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.


(Justified by His blood, reconciled as He paid the debt of sin. All of our sin as to why we must understand our sins as a Christian will cause heartache, trouble, and internal turmoil but the only way they affect salvation is if you reject the gift of grace, reject Jesus. Living in sin is a fruit of rejecting Jesus. If practiced enough, it is like a cancer to the body. If left unchecked (not repentful) then it can start to decay your faith. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. So if our faith decays, so can your belief, and then as Jesus says for those who do not abide in the vine. They will be cut off and thrown into the fire.

Conclusion: repentance is extremely important within proper context. )
“I'm not saying repentance is not an ongoing task of the Christian I’m simply saying it is not what gains salvation.”

we can’t be saved without repentance

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬M

This is why it’s essential

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

…In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭

we have to repent it’s not optional brother because we’re going to be judged by our deeds. because of repentance if we embrace the gospel and hear his call .

we can have our sins forgiven now through confession and repentance rather than answer for them when it’s too late we can send our sins ahead now for remission or later they will follow us to , and condemn us at judgement because we refused to repent and have them remitted


We can do what John said and confess and repent and be forgiven and have ourselves cleansed or we can refuse to repent but the effect is this

Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; ( if we confess and repent now )

and some men they follow after.” ( if we pretend we haven’t sinned )
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can deal with our mistakes and things now ahead of time or we can pretend we haven’t sinned or don’t need to repent then answer for them later when it’s no longer about repentance but jidgement
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
5,368
1,494
113
Never changing? His character never changes but how He operates has changed. The age of dispensations shows the way God changes in how He works in different periods of time.

Dispensation of Antechoatic age (dispensation of angels)

creative ages of 6 days creation of restored earth after Lucifer’s sin

Dispensation of Innocence

Dispensation of conscience

The flood of Noah

Dispensation of Human civil Government

Tower of Babel

Dispensation of promise

Egyptian Bondage

Dispensation of the Law

Jesus Christ died for sins of the whole world (cut off of 69 week of Daniel 9)

Dispensation of Grace

The rapture of the church

Judgement seat of Christ

MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB

The tribulation period the seventieth week of Daniel

The Dispensation of kingdom (the millennial Kingdom)

In this thread we see the curses in the Dispensation of the Law but I ask is it still active in the Dispensation of Grace.
So your saying that for those that curse Israel is not relevant today?
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
5,368
1,494
113
Jesus cursed the fig tree and it withered and died.
Yet he told us all to learn the parable of the fig tree.
When it brings fourth fruit and blossoms your redemption is near to look up.
This is a prophecy that is right before us today yet it starts with a cursing.
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
89
11
8
I agree 100%.

The pastor told a story about his friend who had 3 dragons sculptures passed down from his deceased father. The friend kept feeling the Spirit urging him to get rid of those dragons because they carried a curse against his family. He finally did and within a day his inheritance loan that was being held up for years immediately went through. His income doubled, bought a house, sold the house, etc.

At like minute 15 give or take he tells this story.


Sounds odd to me.
My problem with this kind of thing (anecdotal) is there is zero discussion of this in the New Testament. I have watched curse huckster after curse huckster use the same kind or coercion many times. What about the using the names of months? All are pagan names. There is the Mason symbol on money. Are we cursed if we use it for financial transactions? There is no end to this types of stories. I certainly don't advocate engaging in any sort of idolatry. However, that type of story is often followed with, "We need to pray for you to deliver you of curses." It sells books, but it doesn't line up with the Book.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
6,513
2,227
113
Jesus cursed the fig tree and it withered and died.
Yet he told us all to learn the parable of the fig tree.
When it brings fourth fruit and blossoms your redemption is near to look up.
This is a prophecy that is right before us today yet it starts with a cursing.
Amen and all creation had come first to the curse of sin and death, in order for them to be redeemed from sin and death

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
“I'm not saying repentance is not an ongoing task of the Christian I’m simply saying it is not what gains salvation.”

we can’t be saved without repentance

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬M

This is why it’s essential

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

…In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭

we have to repent it’s not optional brother because we’re going to be judged by our deeds. because of repentance if we embrace the gospel and hear his call .

we can have our sins forgiven now through confession and repentance rather than answer for them when it’s too late we can send our sins ahead now for remission or later they will follow us to , and condemn us at judgement because we refused to repent and have them remitted


We can do what John said and confess and repent and be forgiven and have ourselves cleansed or we can refuse to repent but the effect is this

Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; ( if we confess and repent now )

and some men they follow after.” ( if we pretend we haven’t sinned )
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can deal with our mistakes and things now ahead of time or we can pretend we haven’t sinned or don’t need to repent then answer for them later when it’s no longer about repentance but jidgement

we have to repent it’s not optional brother because we’re going to be judged by our deeds. because of repentance if we embrace the gospel and hear his call .
I never said we do not repent. Initial repentance is necessary to lead to salvation. But salvation is in Christ alone.

Judged by deeds is only within gifts in heaven.


Matthew 6:19-21
New International Version


19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Legalism was fulfilled in Christ. It is all about submission and our relationship with Christ.

we can have our sins forgiven now through confession and repentance rather than answer for them when it’s too late we can send our sins ahead now for remission or later they will follow us to , and condemn us at judgement because we refused to repent and have them remitted
Our sins are already forgiven

1 Peter 2:24 ESV
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Our sins was taken upon Jesus Christ on the cross. Your sins before you was even alive have already been paid by Jesus Christ. By His wounds you have been healed. Been healed past tense.

I hope you truly see what I am saying because this bondage of trying to make sure you dot your I and cross your Ts in order to gain salvation is not the rest Jesus provides.

We are to resist sin, turn from sin, and follow God because we already have salvation for those in Christ Jesus.

So because I care for you, do you have assurance of your salvation?


Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
So your saying that for those that curse Israel is not relevant today?
I'm asking are curses in the OT still relevant for the Christian in the NT. The Christian under a new covenant not just any individual but Christians exclusively.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
I dane to use the word relevant but no.
The only mention is with advice if someone curses you or the fig tree curse about Israel's appearance of faith but no fruit to bear so now they are being rejected for a time as the gentiles are being grafted in.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
6,513
2,227
113
I never said we do not repent. Initial repentance is necessary to lead to salvation. But salvation is in Christ alone.

Judged by deeds is only within gifts in heaven.


Matthew 6:19-21
New International Version


19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Legalism was fulfilled in Christ. It is all about submission and our relationship with Christ.



Our sins are already forgiven

1 Peter 2:24 ESV
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Our sins was taken upon Jesus Christ on the cross. Your sins before you was even alive have already been paid by Jesus Christ. By His wounds you have been healed. Been healed past tense.

I hope you truly see what I am saying because this bondage of trying to make sure you dot your I and cross your Ts in order to gain salvation is not the rest Jesus provides.

We are to resist sin, turn from sin, and follow God because we already have salvation for those in Christ Jesus.

So because I care for you, do you have assurance of your salvation?


Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
“Judged by deeds is only within gifts in heaven.” What ? I have no clue what this means it’s about eternal life or wrath that’s on almost every epistle brother ues salvstion in Christ alone that means we don’t reject what he taught

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭
that’s not me insisting on legalism that’s what Jesus Christ said

and this is a constant message in Paul’s epistles

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Can you see how that’s already interpreted and explained and doesn’t have a thing to do with spiritual gifts but it’s about either eternal
Life or wrath and indignation ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again it’s about what we do while we live in our body good or bad

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to repent and stop doing those things or we don’t have an inheritance

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t let people convince us that what we do doesn’t matter it’s going to bring Gods wrath on all who persist d don’t repent. Notice how Paul’s saying this to the church in the same letters talking about grace ? As you see he’s also teaching repentance bekng necassary he taught judgement based on our deeds because that’s what Jesus taught



“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:41-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the argument “ legalism “ is something people came up with to erase l the New Testament Teaches about repentance and our deeds.

it’s not sinlessness or legalism to believe the New Testament or what Jesus said about oir jidgement it’s just truth that’s hard for us to accept

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once a believer accepts the truth about jidgement thier deeds will change pretty quickly but as long as we convince ourselves what we do doesn’t apply to judgement we’re going to always struggle with repentance

it’s funny in Christ once something sinks in it empowers us in ways we never knew to follow the things we don’t reject

we can have our sins remitted but we can’t keep living in those ways it’s not something we should disbelieve because it doesn’t sound easy it’s still true we have to change our sinful ways because it’s true
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
89
11
8
The only mention is with advice if someone curses you or the fig tree curse about Israel's appearance of faith but no fruit to bear so now they are being rejected for a time as the gentiles are being grafted in.
I understand the reference to the fig tree, but we have to bear in mind this was God cursing the fig, and appears to have prophetic overtones. I don't really get into that in depth. I worry often some Christians are too quick to suggest that Jesus cursed Israel. That said, whether another person curses us or we curse ourselves, There is no supernatural effect. I know that flys in the face of common thought but the only effective curses in the Bible came from prophets of God under unction of the Holy Spirit.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,843
2,932
113
I am doing well so far today. At work so that is a blessing and a curse lol. Just kidding but some days are rough.

Anyways here is where I pull my understanding.


Deuteronomy 28:15
English Standard Version

Curses for Disobedience
15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
So the curses are a result of disobedience :) man is always guilty. It cannot be God my friend :)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
I understand the reference to the fig tree, but we have to bear in mind this was God cursing the fig, and appears to have prophetic overtones. I don't really get into that in depth. I worry often some Christians are too quick to suggest that Jesus cursed Israel. That said, whether another person curses us or we curse ourselves, There is no supernatural effect. I know that flys in the face of common thought but the only effective curses in the Bible came from prophets of God under unction of the Holy Spirit.
I agree. The age of grace isn't to necessarily curse Israel. It is to make Israel jealous and will one day bring them to repentance and acceptance of their Messiah. The fig tree was to show the Jews had a system they admired but it wasn't creating fruit. At worse it was like white washed tombs to cover the stench and decay.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
So the curses are a result of disobedience :) man is always guilty. It cannot be God my friend :)
Deuteronomy 28:15
English Standard Version

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.


These curses shall come upon you and overtake you.

Are these curses comanded by God or natural occurring?

If supernatural then it comes from something beyond the natural.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
“Judged by deeds is only within gifts in heaven.” What ? I have no clue what this means it’s about eternal life or wrath that’s on almost every epistle brother ues salvstion in Christ alone that means we don’t reject what he taught

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭
that’s not me insisting on legalism that’s what Jesus Christ said

and this is a constant message in Paul’s epistles

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Can you see how that’s already interpreted and explained and doesn’t have a thing to do with spiritual gifts but it’s about either eternal
Life or wrath and indignation ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again it’s about what we do while we live in our body good or bad

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to repent and stop doing those things or we don’t have an inheritance

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t let people convince us that what we do doesn’t matter it’s going to bring Gods wrath on all who persist d don’t repent. Notice how Paul’s saying this to the church in the same letters talking about grace ? As you see he’s also teaching repentance bekng necassary he taught judgement based on our deeds because that’s what Jesus taught



“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:41-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the argument “ legalism “ is something people came up with to erase l the New Testament Teaches about repentance and our deeds.

it’s not sinlessness or legalism to believe the New Testament or what Jesus said about oir jidgement it’s just truth that’s hard for us to accept

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once a believer accepts the truth about jidgement thier deeds will change pretty quickly but as long as we convince ourselves what we do doesn’t apply to judgement we’re going to always struggle with repentance

it’s funny in Christ once something sinks in it empowers us in ways we never knew to follow the things we don’t reject

we can have our sins remitted but we can’t keep living in those ways it’s not something we should disbelieve because it doesn’t sound easy it’s still true we have to change our sinful ways because it’s true
the argument “ legalism “ is something people came up with to erase l the New Testament Teaches about repentance and our deeds.
Legalism wasn't made up as the early church often had to deal with people trying to lead them back into the bondage of the law.

Galatians 4
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

Now do not misunderstand repentance is necessary in our walk but only relational. We are also saved not by good works but For good works.

Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

(We are only justified through faith in Christ Jesus. It is that simple. )

(Now in relevance to curses, if we do not abide by all things written then we are cursed. We escape this burden by Christ becoming the curse.)

Galatians 3:10-14
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


it’s not sinlessness or legalism to believe the New Testament or what Jesus said about oir jidgement it’s just truth that’s hard for us to accept
To abide in Christ is to believe the Words in the Bible. We must understand what read by the context and Biblical hermeneutics. There is harmony between faith alone, Christ alone, grace, good works, repentance, etc.

we can have our sins remitted but we can’t keep living in those ways it’s not something we should disbelieve because it doesn’t sound easy it’s still true we have to change our sinful ways because it’s true
Yes, this is the process of sanctification.


Notice how Paul’s saying this to the church in the same letters talking about grace ? As you see he’s also teaching repentance bekng necassary he taught judgement based on our deeds because that’s what Jesus taught
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,772
113
If the devil or curses come in, kick em out.
Do not put up with it.

( preaching to myself)

Stay free. Stay in the lap of Jesus.
Walk in the Spirit.

Curses?
Cast them down and move on.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,130
4,020
113
If the devil or curses come in, kick em out.
Do not put up with it.

( preaching to myself)

Stay free. Stay in the lap of Jesus.
Walk in the Spirit.

Curses?
Cast them down and move on.
What is a curse?
 

FaithMan

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2014
89
11
8
Deuteronomy 28:15
English Standard Version

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.


These curses shall come upon you and overtake you.

Are these curses comanded by God or natural occurring?

If supernatural then it comes from something beyond the natural.
They are supernatural.