Are Seminaries and Bible Colleges Biblical?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So then how do I judge this properly?
https://www.ptseminary.edu/news-pt-seminary-details.php?id=55
During a special chapel service at the Church of God International Offices, John W. and Mildred Hill were inducted into the Pentecostal Theological Seminary Hall of Prophets.

They say he is a prophet, I think he is not.
Should I approach this matter as in Romans 14?
Or
Should I approach this as in 2 Peter 2:1?
When it comes to the actual Gospel or Fundamentals of God's Word, you don't pussy foot around. It's more like Paul rebuking Peter in Galatians 2..

Galatians 2:11 (KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

because of this in Gal 1...

Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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When it comes to the actual Gospel or Fundamentals of God's Word, you don't pussy foot around. It's more like Paul rebuking Peter in Galatians 2..

Galatians 2:11 (KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

because of this in Gal 1...

Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 2:12 implies that certain men came from James and they were of the circumcision party, and they influenced Peter to stop eating with the gentiles. It sounds to me that Paul is not just rebuking Peter, but he is rebuking these certain men of the circumcision party. Being that they came from James it appears to me that Paul is rebuking James as well.
Galatians 2:12 tells me that both Peter and James were influenced by the errors of the circumcision party.
Peter and James were also two key individuals in the Council of Jerusalem letter.
 
May 22, 2020
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They would have to prove themselves to me.
Just like denominations.
Just like churches.
Just like ministers.

This world is in a hurt of changes and it is just getting started of adopting end time prophecies including ..... "great deceptions".
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Galatians 2:12 implies that certain men came from James and they were of the circumcision party, and they influenced Peter to stop eating with the gentiles. It sounds to me that Paul is not just rebuking Peter, but he is rebuking these certain men of the circumcision party. Being that they came from James it appears to me that Paul is rebuking James as well.
Galatians 2:12 tells me that both Peter and James were influenced by the errors of the circumcision party.
Peter and James were also two key individuals in the Council of Jerusalem letter.
If you read what happened in Acts 15 properly, James only excused gentile believers from the Law of Moses, which includes their food laws.

So Peter was actually correct in being afraid of the "men from James", Peter is a circumcised believer, and James never excused him from the food laws regarding unclean food.

The fact that Paul rebuked Peter, probably in front of those men from James, you could now understand better James and the elders response to Paul when Paul met up with them later in Acts 21:18-25, that Paul has taught Jewish believers that they need not follow the customs of the Law of Moses, which includes those food laws.
 

crossnote

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Galatians 2:12 implies that certain men came from James and they were of the circumcision party, and they influenced Peter to stop eating with the gentiles. It sounds to me that Paul is not just rebuking Peter, but he is rebuking these certain men of the circumcision party. Being that they came from James it appears to me that Paul is rebuking James as well.
Galatians 2:12 tells me that both Peter and James were influenced by the errors of the circumcision party.
Peter and James were also two key individuals in the Council of Jerusalem letter.
This is the point...

Galatians 2:13-15 (NASB) The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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This is the point...

Galatians 2:13-15 (NASB) The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
So I see that both Cephas (Peter), and James and the rest of the jews that joined them as being in error. This error was also a factor that led to the split between Paul and Barnabus we see in Acts 15.
 

crossnote

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So I see that both Cephas (Peter), and James and the rest of the jews that joined them as being in error. This error was also a factor that led to the split between Paul and Barnabus we see in Acts 15.
Yes, and in this case it was the 'seminary student' who was in the right.

Acts 22:3 (KJV) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

and for a little preemptive work...

Philippians 3:5-8 (KJV) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

let's take this a step further...

Matthew 5:20 (KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul knew and explained that better way quite well.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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So I see that both Cephas (Peter), and James and the rest of the jews that joined them as being in error. This error was also a factor that led to the split between Paul and Barnabus we see in Acts 15.
Incorrect. I addressed this already, in post #85.
 
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"Are Seminaries and Bible Colleges Biblical?"

I'd say . . . nope. I'd never be taught doctrine from a bible college; maybe Greek or Hebrew, but even then, why not learn Hebrew from the Blessed Jewish community? It's their language . . . they'd know best.
Yea, but they dont know the Bible,,
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Yea, but they don't know the Bible,,
That's how I see it. When a person teaches the Doctrine of Circumcised Hearts, my ears are perked because I know that said person is more aware of Truth than those who do not.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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"Are Seminaries and Bible Colleges Biblical?"

I'd say . . . nope. I'd never be taught doctrine from a bible college; maybe Greek or Hebrew, but even then, why not learn Hebrew from the Blessed Jewish community? It's their language . . . they'd know best.
@Jordan Yea, but they dont know the Bible,,
That's how I see it. When a person teaches the Doctrine of Circumcised Hearts, my ears are perked because I know that said person is more aware of Truth than those who do not.
When dealing with the original languages, theological bias is not to take part but it strictly follows the rules of language. I'd rather have a lexicon from a competent atheist than an incompetent evangelical.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Yes, so we agree on the first. Nice!

and in this case it was the 'seminary student' who was in the right.

Acts 22:3 (KJV) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

and for a little preemptive work...

Philippians 3:5-8 (KJV) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

let's take this a step further...

Matthew 5:20 (KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul knew and explained that better way quite well.
But now I disagree on the second point you seem to be making; that Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was some great advantage.

No Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was a disadvantage.
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Acts 28:23-27

New International Version
23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Paul was in great error for he persecuted the church with all that learned knowledge'. Once Paul learned the real truth, all that man-made knowledge he had he counted as "dung" or "garbage". Christ was everything. Paul learned everything through revelation from One Teacher Jesus Christ.

The seminary people like to tell us how important it was for Paul to be a learned man, and a formally trained man prior to coming to Christ. They again manipulate the truth to justify their existence. See in scripture Paul did not learn from any man. His formal training was an impediment to his conversion or to the truth he obtained afterward. But God being who he is was able to convert even the most zealous and most Pharisaical person that there was: Paul.


Galatians 1:11-17
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas (Peter) and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.



Paul clearly states that man-made teachings led him in opposition to God. Christ alone was his teacher.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Yes, so we agree on the first. Nice!



But now I disagree on the second point you seem to be making; that Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was some great advantage.

No Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was a disadvantage.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Acts 28:23-27

New International Version
23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Paul was in great error for he persecuted the church with all that learned knowledge'. Once Paul learned the real truth, all that man-made knowledge he had he counted as "dung" or "garbage". Christ was everything. Paul learned everything through revelation from One Teacher Jesus Christ.

The seminary people like to tell us how important it was for Paul to be a learned man, and a formally trained man prior to coming to Christ. They again manipulate the truth to justify their existence. See in scripture Paul did not learn from any man. His formal training was an impediment to his conversion or to the truth he obtained afterward. But God being who he is was able to convert even the most zealous and most Pharisaical person that there was: Paul.


Galatians 1:11-17
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas (Peter) and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.



Paul clearly states that man-made teachings led him in opposition to God. Christ alone was his teacher.
You wrote all that for nothing. Where in the world did I ever say or even intimate "that Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was some great advantage."???

Don't you have anything better with your time than to play 'Gotcha'?

Paul in his own words says he considers all that but rubbish in order to gain Christ. Maybe I should remind you what I said in post #227 which you conveniently did not address...
Philippians 3:5-8 (KJV) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

let's take this a step further...

Matthew 5:20 (KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul knew and explained that better way quite well.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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205
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You wrote all that for nothing. Where in the world did I ever say or even intimate "that Paul being a 'seminary student' prior to his conversion was some great advantage."???

Don't you have anything better with your time than to play 'Gotcha'?

Paul in his own words says he considers all that but rubbish in order to gain Christ. Maybe I should remind you what I said in post #227 which you conveniently did not address...
Sorry for my misunderstanding. I'm not trying to play gotcha.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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When dealing with the original languages, theological bias is not to take part but it strictly follows the rules of language. I'd rather have a lexicon from a competent atheist than an incompetent evangelical.
Brilliantly said. They just need to tell it as it is and not according to theological bent. That's similar to how I used to interpret the Bible. I'd look at my own life, compare it to Scripture, and then make my assessments . . . believing in Eternal Security when you're not really saved is horrific, and that was 100% me in my pre-Transformed life.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Brilliantly said. They just need to tell it as it is and not according to theological bent. That's similar to how I used to interpret the Bible. I'd look at my own life, compare it to Scripture, and then make my assessments . . . believing in Eternal Security when you're not really saved is horrific, and that was 100% me in my pre-Transformed life.
So where do you stand on E.S. in your post-Transformed life?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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When dealing with the original languages, theological bias is not to take part but it strictly follows the rules of language. I'd rather have a lexicon from a competent atheist than an incompetent evangelical.
From what I have observed thus far in the New Testament there seems to be no indication made to a chief elder or senior overseer aside form the chief Overseer Jesus Christ.

One place I do have a question is with Galatians 2:7-8, which seems to give Paul and Peter a higher authority or superior ranking over the other apostles and elders....

Galatians 2:7-8
But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

But if this is indeed the case, then why did Paul list James before Cephas in Galatians 2:9?

Galatians 2:9
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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From what I have observed thus far in the New Testament there seems to be no indication made to a chief elder or senior overseer aside form the chief Overseer Jesus Christ.
One place I do have a question is with Galatians 2:7-8, which seems to give Paul and Peter a higher authority or superior ranking over the other apostles and elders....
Your point? Do you think God has set his Church up as an egalitarian system? Your phrase 'seems to' give indicates speculation.

But if this is indeed the case, then why did Paul list James before Cephas in Galatians 2:9?
Maybe for the same reason Cephas is listed before John in the same verse.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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Your point? Do you think God has set his Church up as an egalitarian system? Your phrase 'seems to' give indicates speculation.


Maybe for the same reason Cephas is listed before John in the same verse.
It would be easier if you just spelled it out for me.

Matthew 23:8
But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.

Matthew 20:16
So the last will be first, and the first last.”