Are The Virgin 144,000 Part Of The Church, Saved Christians?

[ForestGreenCook]

You repeatedly mention the words (Little Flock) in relationship to the 144,000?

This teaching is found withing the (Local Church) movement of Watchman Nee & Witness Lee

Are you a follower of Nee & Lee teachings?

My only source of gleaning the truths in the scriptures, is to compare scriptures to scriptures. If they all harmonize, you have understood the truth. If they do not harmonize, then you are believing in a false doctrine, other than the one that Jesus taught.

I have been mistakenly tagged as a Calvinist, but I have never read any of his writings, nor any other of man's writings, and I have never heard the names "Nee & Lee".

The harmony of the scriptures uphold that there will be in heaven a number so large that it will be impossible to number them. The visible church, which is the 144,000, is but a few. It was just a few, in comparison, to the population in the Apostle's days, and the scriptures say that it will always be a few.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That is like saying dark is light.

To you, maybe, the scriptures are written as a mystery, to the larger part of God's regenerated children, thus, the wide gate.

Your comment is mild, compared to some of the remarks that Jesus heard about his doctrine.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The 144000 ....who are they? Self explained they are the remnant of Israel. 12x12000 of the tribes.

The church is not on the earth at this point.
Why do you and others keep saying the church is Israel or Israel is the church. Such a false teaching this replacement theology.

Do you or anyone of your thinking know what the church is? The church is exclusive to Christ. It is the temple made without hands.
It is the bride of Christ. A new thing. One that no one else ever saw. The grafted in ones. Born again ones. The called out ones.
Are we of the law....no we were saved from the law. We were saved from the judgement to come. We are not appointed to the wrath which is to come. We are the holy ones.
The book of revelation is about the promise to redeem Israel we're not seen after the 4th chapter untill Christ comes with his bride. Not for his bride. With his bride.
Our purpose is fulfilled then we are out of here. Israel becomes a light once more. Their weakest warrior will be as king david.
They will evangelize to all the nation's left. And God himself will defend her.
Remember God scattered them all over the globe so when you see every kindred and tongue it does not necessarily mean gentiles.
Most jews today speak 3 or 4 different languages in the promised land. There are black jews, white jews, asian jews, ECT.

What are your thoughts on my later comments?

 

[Scribe]

My only source of gleaning the truths in the scriptures, is to compare scriptures to scriptures. If they all harmonize, you have understood the truth. If they do not harmonize, then you are believing in a false doctrine, other than the one that Jesus taught.

I have been mistakenly tagged as a Calvinist, but I have never read any of his writings, nor any other of man's writings, and I have never heard the names "Nee & Lee".

The harmony of the scriptures uphold that there will be in heaven a number so large that it will be impossible to number them. The visible church, which is the 144,000, is but a few. It was just a few, in comparison, to the population in the Apostle's days, and the scriptures say that it will always be a few.

Visible church in theological literature usually refers to those that claim to be Christian. God knows who's are His and let every man that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity being the true church.
Your flipping it around by calling the remnant the visible church and that does not make sense.

You probably should read some commentaries. They are not going to corrupt you and will probably show you your mistakes in hermeneutics. The broad path to destruction are not saved people. Hence the word "destruction"

 

[Scribe]

My only source of gleaning the truths in the scriptures, is to compare scriptures to scriptures. If they all harmonize, you have understood the truth. If they do not harmonize, then you are believing in a false doctrine, other than the one that Jesus taught.

I have been mistakenly tagged as a Calvinist, but I have never read any of his writings, nor any other of man's writings, and I have never heard the names "Nee & Lee".

The harmony of the scriptures uphold that there will be in heaven a number so large that it will be impossible to number them. The visible church, which is the 144,000, is but a few. It was just a few, in comparison, to the population in the Apostle's days, and the scriptures say that it will always be a few.

People who say they refuse to read any mans writings and only read the bible, are always full of strange doctrines. I have not read Calvin either but to say "nor any man's writings' suggests that you don't have much of a bible education.

 

[pottersclay]

What are your thoughts on my later comments?

Are you really seeking answers?

 

[pottersclay]

The Sealed of Israel After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

What is so hard to figure out here??? God even list the tribes.

 

[Truth7t7]

the remnant, The little flock, the 144,000

Once again, you mention (The Little Flock) a common term used in the (Unification Church) of (Watchman Nee) & (Witness Lee) do you follow their teachings?

 

[Truth7t7]

My only source of gleaning the truths in the scriptures, is to compare scriptures to scriptures. If they all harmonize, you have understood the truth. If they do not harmonize, then you are believing in a false doctrine, other than the one that Jesus taught.

I have been mistakenly tagged as a Calvinist, but I have never read any of his writings, nor any other of man's writings, and I have never heard the names "Nee & Lee".

The harmony of the scriptures uphold that there will be in heaven a number so large that it will be impossible to number them. The visible church, which is the 144,000, is but a few. It was just a few, in comparison, to the population in the Apostle's days, and the scriptures say that it will always be a few.

Thanks for the response, you can ignore my repeat request above

 

[Truth7t7]

My only source of gleaning the truths in the scriptures, is to compare scriptures to scriptures. If they all harmonize, you have understood the truth. If they do not harmonize, then you are believing in a false doctrine, other than the one that Jesus taught.

I have been mistakenly tagged as a Calvinist, but I have never read any of his writings, nor any other of man's writings, and I have never heard the names "Nee & Lee".

The harmony of the scriptures uphold that there will be in heaven a number so large that it will be impossible to number them. The visible church, which is the 144,000, is but a few. It was just a few, in comparison, to the population in the Apostle's days, and the scriptures say that it will always be a few.

I disagree that the 144,000 represents the visible Church on earth, scripture strongly suggest that it applies to the church in the wilderness, the remnant elect Jew, that will be saved at the future time of Great Tribulation in Jerusalen

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The 144,000 remnant elect Jews added to the church, being fed (Manna) in the wilderness of Israel

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People who say they refuse to read any mans writings and only read the bible, are always full of strange doctrines. I have not read Calvin either but to say "nor any man's writings' suggests that you don't have much of a bible education.

Bible education comes from the revelation of the Holy Ghost, not from the revelation of man. Jesus was accused of preaching "a strange doctrine".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Are you really seeking answers?

If I was not seeking answers, I would not have ask.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Sealed of Israel After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

What is so hard to figure out here??? God even list the tribes.

I am not disputing this scripture, I am affirming that the 144,000 is not all of the elect, but is a small portion of the elect, those that have always been faithful to their husband, Jesus.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I disagree that the 144,000 represents the visible Church on earth, scripture strongly suggest that it applies to the church in the wilderness, the remnant elect Jew, that will be saved at the future time of Great Tribulation in Jerusalen

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The 144,000 remnant elect Jews added to the church, being fed (Manna) in the wilderness of Israel

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

The church in the wilderness, which was present with Jacob/Israel the forty years that they circled in the wilderness on their way to the promised land. is one of many names that reference the invisible church of all of God's elect, which is also called Israel, the surname of Jacob.

 

[Scribe]

Bible education comes from the revelation of the Holy Ghost, not from the revelation of man. Jesus was accused of preaching "a strange doctrine".

People who don't even reference a bible dictionary are probably full of ignorance and think they aren't. It would be impossible to correctly interpret everything in the bible without some knowledge of customs and history of the settings of various passages and this would require them to do some reading from bible dictionaries, commentaries, historical writings etc.

I am not say they have to know these things to be saved but they certainly would need to in order to teach sound interpretations.
Otherwise they will make many mistakes.

For example, 'Quit ye like men' does not mean Quit acting like a mere man because you have the Spirit of God in you, but I have heard people who did not take the time to look it up in a commentary preach on it and they ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone who did use bible dictionaries and commentaries. But try to tell that brother he had made a mistake and he would argue with you that he got it from the Holy Spirit. But he was wrong. The Holy Spirit did not tell him that "Quit ye like me" meant what he said it meant, his lack of knowledge of the archaic English told him that and he blamed it on the Holy Spirit. Quit ye like men means "act like a man" Like we would say "man up"

People who don't reference any commentaries, bible dictionaries, or appreciate and listen to scholarly teachers at all, will condemn themselves to a lifetime of ignorance and mistakes. God will use others in the body of Christ to help you notice something that was in the scriptures but that you did not notice before, and using someone in the body of Christ who has the same Holy Spirit that you do is being taught by the Holy Spirit and not just some man's idea. This need for each member of the body to contribute to the whole so that we all mature into the image of Christ is in the context of teachers as well as other gifts that the Holy Spirit gives each member.

It is one thing to say that I trust the Holy Spirit and my study of the word of God to help me notice when a man is not interpreting scripture correctly and it is another thing altogether to say I never read any teachers God has given to the church to edify the saints. When we think we are better gifted and know more than all other teachers who have spent 50 years in daily study of the word of God then we are so far out in left field we are mentally deranged.

 

[Scribe]

Bible education comes from the revelation of the Holy Ghost, not from the revelation of man. Jesus was accused of preaching "a strange doctrine".

You're not Jesus, and you could use a little help.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People who don't even reference a bible dictionary are probably full of ignorance and think they aren't. It would be impossible to correctly interpret everything in the bible without some knowledge of customs and history of the settings of various passages and this would require them to do some reading from bible dictionaries, commentaries, historical writings etc.

I am not say they have to know these things to be saved but they certainly would need to in order to teach sound interpretations.
Otherwise they will make many mistakes.

For example, 'Quit ye like men' does not mean Quit acting like a mere man because you have the Spirit of God in you, but I have heard people who did not take the time to look it up in a commentary preach on it and they ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone who did use bible dictionaries and commentaries. But try to tell that brother he had made a mistake and he would argue with you that he got it from the Holy Spirit. But he was wrong. The Holy Spirit did not tell him that "Quit ye like me" meant what he said it meant, his lack of knowledge of the archaic English told him that and he blamed it on the Holy Spirit. Quit ye like men means "act like a man" Like we would say "man up"

People who don't reference any commentaries, bible dictionaries, or appreciate and listen to scholarly teachers at all, will condemn themselves to a lifetime of ignorance and mistakes. God will use others in the body of Christ to help you notice something that was in the scriptures but that you did not notice before, and using someone in the body of Christ who has the same Holy Spirit that you do is being taught by the Holy Spirit and not just some man's idea. This need for each member of the body to contribute to the whole so that we all mature into the image of Christ is in the context of teachers as well as other gifts that the Holy Spirit gives each member.

It is one thing to say that I trust the Holy Spirit and my study of the word of God to help me notice when a man is not interpreting scripture correctly and it is another thing altogether to say I never read any teachers God has given to the church to edify the saints. When we think we are better gifted and know more than all other teachers who have spent 50 years in daily study of the word of God then we are so far out in left field we are mentally deranged.

I do use a concordance quite often.