Are The Virgin 144,000 Part Of The Church, Saved Christians?

[pottersclay]

Scriptures prove that Jacob, (whose name was changed to Israel) as Israel is the invisible church. which includes every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. The 144,000 is the visible church, the remnant, the few, the little flock, etc.

The 144000 ....who are they? Self explained they are the remnant of Israel. 12x12000 of the tribes.

The church is not on the earth at this point.
Why do you and others keep saying the church is Israel or Israel is the church. Such a false teaching this replacement theology.

Do you or anyone of your thinking know what the church is? The church is exclusive to Christ. It is the temple made without hands.
It is the bride of Christ. A new thing. One that no one else ever saw. The grafted in ones. Born again ones. The called out ones.
Are we of the law....no we were saved from the law. We were saved from the judgement to come. We are not appointed to the wrath which is to come. We are the holy ones.
The book of revelation is about the promise to redeem Israel we're not seen after the 4th chapter untill Christ comes with his bride. Not for his bride. With his bride.
Our purpose is fulfilled then we are out of here. Israel becomes a light once more. Their weakest warrior will be as king david.
They will evangelize to all the nation's left. And God himself will defend her.
Remember God scattered them all over the globe so when you see every kindred and tongue it does not necessarily mean gentiles.
Most jews today speak 3 or 4 different languages in the promised land. There are black jews, white jews, asian jews, ECT.

 

[Scribe]

Ezk 10 tells us of two wheels. An outer larger wheel (the invisible church) and a smaller wheel within the larger wheel (the visible church, the 144,000, the remnant, the few, the little flock, etc) This harmonizes with the two gates mentioned in Matt 7. The wide gate, the invisible church, being those of God's elect, that are still babes in Christ, and are teaching, and preaching false doctrines that are not the doctrine that Jesus taught. The straight gate, the visible church, being those of God's elect that have been revealed, by the indwelling Holy Ghost, the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught, the gospel.

The wide gate leads to destruction not salvation, so those aren't baby Christians. Where do people come up with these things and why?

The 144000 ....who are they? Self explained they are the remnant of Israel. 12x12000 of the tribes.

The church is not on the earth at this point.
Why do you and others keep saying the church is Israel or Israel is the church. Such a false teaching this replacement theology.

Do you or anyone of your thinking know what the church is? The church is exclusive to Christ. It is the temple made without hands.
It is the bride of Christ. A new thing. One that no one else ever saw. The grafted in ones. Born again ones. The called out ones.
Are we of the law....no we were saved from the law. We were saved from the judgement to come. We are not appointed to the wrath which is to come. We are the holy ones.
The book of revelation is about the promise to redeem Israel we're not seen after the 4th chapter untill Christ comes with his bride. Not for his bride. With his bride.
Our purpose is fulfilled then we are out of here. Israel becomes a light once more. Their weakest warrior will be as king david.
They will evangelize to all the nation's left. And God himself will defend her.
Remember God scattered them all over the globe so when you see every kindred and tongue it does not necessarily mean gentiles.
Most jews today speak 3 or 4 different languages in the promised land. There are black jews, white jews, asian jews, ECT.

So they are only Jews who never married? And I thought the marriage bed was undefiled.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The 144,000 are the remnant Jews that have received Jesus Christ (Redeemed) and have been (Added) to the Church present on earth (Christians), they are preaching the (Everlasting Gospel) in the death, burial, resurrection, and salvation in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:14KJV
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Revelation 14:4-7KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Actually they are the first fruits and are gathered at the throne of grace singing.......HALLELUJAH and HOLY HOLY HOLY.

 

[Truth7t7]

Scriptures prove that Jacob, (whose name was changed to Israel) as Israel is the invisible church. which includes every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. The 144,000 is the visible church, the remnant, the few, the little flock, etc.

You repeatedly mention the words (Little Flock) in relationship to the 144,000?

This teaching is found withing the (Local Church) movement of Watchman Nee & Witness Lee

Are you a follower of Nee & Lee teachings?

 

[Truth7t7]

The wide gate leads to destruction not salvation, so those aren't baby Christians. Where do people come up with these things and why?

So they are only Jews who never married? And I thought the marriage bed was undefiled.

My understanding shows that the 144,000 saved Christian Jews, represent the remnant church, that will have the Everlasting gospel to preach Rev 14:4-7, they will be in the wilderness of Bashan, Carmel during the tribulation being fed (Manna) as in the days of old Micah 7:12-17, this is the woman in Rev 12:6 below

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Revelation 14:4-7KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[tourist]

The 144,000 are Christian Jewish men that have been saved and redeemed by the blood upon Calvary, and added to the Church upon earth.

Could very well be Christian Jewish men.

 

[tourist]

What does she tell you? I seriously want to know the answer. Some say it is symbolic. But then does that mean they aren't really virigins? If they aren't really virgins that could mean they aren't really Jews.

Symbolic Jews no doubt. The scripture probably wasn't serious either about the number 144,000. Symbolically, it meant to say that it was a whole lot of men who may or not be Jewish or may or not be virgins. Pretty sure that the men are not symbolic but could be wrong about that too, maybe they are actually women.

 

[Scribe]

Symbolic Jews no doubt. The scripture probably wasn't serious either about the number 144,000. Symbolically, it meant to say that it was a whole lot of men who may or not be Jewish or may or not be virgins. Pretty sure that the men are not symbolic but could be wrong about that too, maybe they are actually women.

Good point. Are only Jewish men part of the saved remnant Jews? It is obvious that it is a vision and represents a broader theological truth. I believe it is probably the "all Israel will be saved" prophesy portrayed in symbolism and the virgin part is symbolic. A reference to holiness and not playing the harlot with false doctrine, idolatry, and lusts of the world. I am just guessing here based on common sense reasoning. I lean toward a national revival in Israel before this is all wrapped up even if that happens at the very end when a third of the city is destroyed before Christ comes again.

 

[DWR]

Why not just accept what the Scripture clearly states?

 

[Scribe]

Why not just accept what the Scripture clearly states?

Nobody knows who you are responding to. Or at least I don't. Hit reply so we can see who you are responding to.

 

[Scribe]

Why not just accept what the Scripture clearly states?

The reason one cannot just take it literally is because it would be saying that if you get married and have sex you are defiled by women. Since we know that the scriptures say that the married bed is undefiled we know that scripture does not contradict itself and it is not possible that this verse means that if a Jew marries and has sex they are defiled with women. Therefore what could it mean is a valid question since it cannot be correct to say that if you are married and not a virgin you have been defiled by women now can it?

 

[DWR]

Nobody knows who you are responding to. Or at least I don't. Hit reply so we can see who you are responding to.

I was speaking to all.
Every one seems to be giving their opinion and ignoring what is said.

 

[tourist]

The reason one cannot just take it literally is because it would be saying that if you get married and have sex you are defiled by women. Since we know that the scriptures say that the married bed is undefiled we know that scripture does not contradict itself and it is not possible that this verse means that if a Jew marries and has sex they are defiled with women. Therefore what could it mean is a valid question since it cannot be correct to say that if you are married and not a virgin you have been defiled by women now can it?

I am fairly certain that I have been defiled and there are not qualified for the 144,000 choir that is going to sing a new song. Ain't Jewish either, at least not in a literal sense anyway.

 

[Truth7t7]

I lean toward a national revival in Israel before this is all wrapped up even if that happens at the very end when a third of the city is destroyed before Christ comes again.

Gods word leans towards a national slaughter, 2/3 will die during the fulfilling of the gentiles, the 1/3 remnant chosen elect will be saved?

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[DWR]

The reason one cannot just take it literally is because it would be saying that if you get married and have sex you are defiled by women. Since we know that the scriptures say that the married bed is undefiled we know that scripture does not contradict itself and it is not possible that this verse means that if a Jew marries and has sex they are defiled with women. Therefore what could it mean is a valid question since it cannot be correct to say that if you are married and not a virgin you have been defiled by women now can it?

Defiled speaks of fornication and adultery.
A man is never defiled by his wife.

 

[Scribe]

Defiled speaks of fornication and adultery.
A man is never defiled by his wife.

Exactly. So we can now conclude that it has something to do with fornication or adultery or whoredoms. Is it meant to convey that it more holy to not marry? Of course not because of other scriptures on the subject we can rule that out.
If the "defiled by women" is not in the context of loosing virginity by marrying then what is the virginity meant to convey?
That they had never fornicated with THE HARLOT? It is not possible that it only means that they were JUST men who are going to be saved out of Israel and that they never married. It must therefore be symbolic. And if the virgin part is symbolic so are the other details including the number.
I think that they are called virgins just to make it clear that it is symbolic. It is supposed to be obvious for that reason.

 

[Scribe]

Gods word leans towards a national slaughter, 2/3 will die during the fulfilling of the gentiles, the 1/3 remnant chosen elect will be saved?

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Yes that is what I was talking about. And the one about the city when the Lord comes back.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The 144000 ....who are they? Self explained they are the remnant of Israel. 12x12000 of the tribes.

The church is not on the earth at this point.
Why do you and others keep saying the church is Israel or Israel is the church. Such a false teaching this replacement theology.

Do you or anyone of your thinking know what the church is? The church is exclusive to Christ. It is the temple made without hands.
It is the bride of Christ. A new thing. One that no one else ever saw. The grafted in ones. Born again ones. The called out ones.
Are we of the law....no we were saved from the law. We were saved from the judgement to come. We are not appointed to the wrath which is to come. We are the holy ones.
The book of revelation is about the promise to redeem Israel we're not seen after the 4th chapter untill Christ comes with his bride. Not for his bride. With his bride.
Our purpose is fulfilled then we are out of here. Israel becomes a light once more. Their weakest warrior will be as king david.
They will evangelize to all the nation's left. And God himself will defend her.
Remember God scattered them all over the globe so when you see every kindred and tongue it does not necessarily mean gentiles.
Most jews today speak 3 or 4 different languages in the promised land. There are black jews, white jews, asian jews, ECT.

Christ has been reigning as king of his kingdom, which is the church, ever since the days of his Apostles. Mark 9:1, And he said unto them, verly I say unto you, there be some of them that stand here, which will not taste death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

The kingdom of God is one of many names that references the church. Others are the church of God, the church of Christ, the church of the first born, the church in the wilderness, Zion, the kingdom of heaven, and more.

Matt 11:11-12, Verily I say unto you, among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen a greater that John the baptist, notwithstanding, he that is least in the kingdom of heaven (the church) is greater than he. And from the days of John the baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Eternal heaven has never suffered violence.

Isaiah 45:4, For Jacob my servants sake, and Israel, mine elect. I have even called thee by thy name. I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. All Israel is not of Israel. Jacob as Israel represents all of the elect of God, which is the invisible church.

Luke 17:20, And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. because the new law is written in the heart, and the church is within us.

Ezk 10 has reference to the wheel within a wheel. The larger outer wheel being the invisible church, and the smaller inner wheel being the visible church, the 144,000, the remnant, The little flock, the few.

I think Ezk 10 harmonizes with Matt 7 of the two gates. The wide gate being the invisible church, and the straight gate being the few, the remnant, The little flock, the 144,000, which are referenced as the virgins, because they have always been faithful to their husband, Jesus, unlike those in the wide gate that teach, and preach false doctrines.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The wide gate leads to destruction not salvation, so those aren't baby Christians. Where do people come up with these things and why?

So they are only Jews who never married? And I thought the marriage bed was undefiled.

They are already eternally saved, the destruction is that they are believing in false doctrines.

All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truths within them.

 

[Scribe]

They are already eternally saved, the destruction is that they are believing in false doctrines.

All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truths within them.

That is like saying dark is light.