Are the words of Jesus not for Christians?

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lenna

Guest
#62
We must give credit to every single word Jesus said, but this doesn't mean we have to comply with all his words.

When the young rich ruler asked: "What do I have to do to be saved?", Jesus answered: "Keep the commandments". Do our pastors teach this today? No, of course not! It would be wrong to keep the ten commandments today because of the Sabbath. And besides that, salvation today is not achieved by keeping laws.

and no one has said we obey every word

no one
 
L

lenna

Guest
#63
My point was obvious
I really would just like to entertain that thought for you before moving on

your point is to take the op down a rabbit hole so you can broadcast all your favorite beliefs

are you desperate that you must do so in every thread?

moving along.............
 
L

lenna

Guest
#64
The 12 did not preach the death and resurrection of Christ To the Jews during the 4 gospels Luke 9:6

What did they preach exactly then?

this is totally unrelated to the op

and if you call me a jerk again I will report you :giggle:
 
L

lenna

Guest
#67
more than sad

they create disharmony (is that a word?...anyway) in a thread that people have actually contributed to and desire to preach at us about what they believe and think 'trick' questions are sincere posts that will engender thoughtful answers

every

single

thread

BOTH of them
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
more than sad

they create disharmony (is that a word?...anyway) in a thread that people have actually contributed to and desire to preach at us about what they believe and think 'trick' questions are sincere posts that will engender thoughtful answers

every

single

thread

BOTH of them
I used to act out, amy more I will just say a few words then when it starts To Go that way I give up.
sadly it is just as bad in here as in the world lately
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#69
Church didn't start until after the resurrection. Just saying...
Most everything that Jesus said to His disciples, promises, rebukes, etc., even before Pentecost, is applied to all believers. For example:

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take it; this is My body.”
Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it. He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Truly I tell you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God.”

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

The Lord instituted the breaking of bread with His disciples, but is applied to all who would believe in Him throughout the entire church period. And the second scripture is likewise to be applied to all believers.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#70
If its different, then god is a liar
God has various good news given to different audience during different time periods

God told Abraham the good news he will have many descendants like the stars of heaven and the sand in the shore in genesis 15

God told David the good news that a descendant from him will be ruling from his throne in 2 samuel

God told Israel the good news, after about 400 years of complete silence, that this descendant from David is finally here in the flesh, to usher them into that promised kingdom of heaven on earth in Luke 1

Finally after Israel the nation rejected the messiah for the final time by stoning Stephen, God announced to the whole world the good news thru the apostle Paul that, all of us, gentiles or Jews can be saved thru believing in Jesus death burial and resurrection (Romans 11:11, 1 cor 15:1-4)

You can now understand how God is not a liar, even if the content of the good news has changed throughout the ages?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#71
well that certainly would apply to the people in the 'Jesus Seminar' as per my op

I would hope there are no members of that bunch responding in the thread here though

I see danger in the tendency to dismiss the gospels, book of Acts and James as non applicable to us and some have said there is no doctrine to be found in them. with regard to Acts in particular, saying there is no doctrine in that book would completely dismiss the Holy Spirit being sent to indwell believers...to seal them in fact

this, would be the dismissal of a major doctrine. the appearance of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers and actually being inside of us rather than the way we see Him being portrayed in the OT

you certainly are right about the Seminar people though!
Agreed! Likewise, there are groups out there who consider Paul a false apostle and therefore reject his writings as being the word of God. However, by doing so they are getting rid of a lot of scriptural information and promises such as the living being changed and caught up in I Thess.4:16-18 and I Cor.15:51-53, as well as a myriad of others. And by doing so they put themselves under the same condemnation as those mentioned in 2 Peter 3:16 who He said were ignorant and unstable people and that they did so to their own destruction.

Definitely not a good idea to remove books or information from the word of God
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#72
Most everything that Jesus said to His disciples, promises, rebukes, etc., even before Pentecost, is applied to all believers. For example:

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take it; this is My body.”
Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it. He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Truly I tell you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God.”

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

The Lord instituted the breaking of bread with His disciples, but is applied to all who would believe in Him throughout the entire church period. And the second scripture is likewise to be applied to all believers.
What about John 20:23 and mark 16:16-18?
 
Nov 17, 2019
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#73
wondering what others think about this?
Great post, by the way. Very informative.

I usually handle situations like this similar to the way I would handle a confrontation with an atheist, by not enganging with them at all.

It is my opinion that all attempts at expressing your viewpoint to these rocks with legs is a futile waste of your precious time.

You will always lose. Why? Because we come at it from a viewpoint of believing what the bible says, whereas these people have already made up their mind that every word in the bible is false.

My advice: agree to disagree until the Holy Spirit opens the door. :)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#74
What about John 20:23 and mark 16:16-18?
"Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Jesus also said the following to His disciples and all believers:

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours." - Matt. 6:14-15

And

"Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

But all that said, I did put into my post that most everything that Jesus said to His disciples is to be applied to all believers. There are of course things that He said to them that was for them specifically.
 
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#75
But all that said, I did put into my post that most everything that Jesus said to His disciples is to be applied to all believers. There are of course things that He said to them that was for them specifically.
So I guess depending on how you were taught, the church you attend, all of us will have different ideas on which apply and which don't.

The Roman Catholics for example, take John 20:23 very seriously, in their priestly duties. No other church really cares about that verse though.

As for Mark 16:16-18, its most fascinating. The Church of Christ and some others would take Mark 16:16 seriously but reject 17 and 18.

Charismatics would however, take 17 and 18 seriously but reject 16 in terms of water baptism being necessary for salvation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,708
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#76
All the words of Jesus are for Christians.

But not all the words of Jesus are understood by Christians.


But then I wonder, maybe the understanding we have of the Lords Words are exactly the understanding that He gives us based on our faith/lack thereof.
i reckon it's hand-in-hand;
the better i understand Him, the more my faith increases, and the more faith i have, the more i seem to understand
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,091
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#77
"Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Jesus also said the following to His disciples and all believers:

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours." - Matt. 6:14-15

And

"Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

But all that said, I did put into my post that most everything that Jesus said to His disciples is to be applied to all believers. There are of course things that He said to them that was for them specifically.
So, if I have not forgiven all others, God has not forgiven me and I am still in my sin? Do you really believe this is to the body of Christ? How do you pick and choose which teachings to apply as doctrine and which do not?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#78
It’s still faith in gods provision, that’s been the gospel since day one

we have always been saved by grace through faith
I thought the only way unto salvation is through the message of the cross? It seems you are the one who believes in dual salvation plans.

Only by trusting in the shed blood of Jesus can a man be saved. But you are saying that if one believes something other than that specific message, one can be saved. What gives? Is it the shed blood of Christ or not?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
i reckon it's hand-in-hand;
the better i understand Him, the more my faith increases, and the more faith i have, the more i seem to understand
thats why love grows also. The more love we understand we are given, the more capacity to love we can share love and faith go hand in hand
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#80
I thought the only way unto salvation is through the message of the cross? It seems you are the one who believes in dual salvation plans.

Only by trusting in the shed blood of Jesus can a man be saved. But you are saying that if one believes something other than that specific message, one can be saved. What gives? Is it the shed blood of Christ or not?
Most of the time, those that stand fast on the "there has always been only one gospel" doctrine, when you ask them what exactly is the content of that one gospel, they will reply in some vague broad point "its about faith in Jesus, believe in Jesus etc".

Then when you asked them how the OT saints believe in Jesus, that one gospel, when he is not even sent to Earth yet, they will fall back on the "Oh, they were looking forward to the Cross", an equally vague explanation.