Are there commandments under grace?
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Now why are you disagreeing with me, my beliefs are rooted in scripture.
Its quite simple, when you are looking to Christ and trusting him it is impossible at the same time to commit wilfull sin. you have to look away from Christ and to the flesh to commit wilfull sin. That is if you like where the effort comes in. But we rely on the holy spirit and put no confidence in the fleshphil3:3)
We all fail each and everyone of us for none are perfect. We all fail to keep looking to Christ rather than the flesh at times. However in order to grow you do NOT look to the written code and strive to obey it, you look to Christ and trust him to lead you in the power of the holy spirit.
Now why do you want to find fault with that?
Its quite simple, when you are looking to Christ and trusting him it is impossible at the same time to commit wilfull sin. you have to look away from Christ and to the flesh to commit wilfull sin. That is if you like where the effort comes in. But we rely on the holy spirit and put no confidence in the fleshphil3:3)
We all fail each and everyone of us for none are perfect. We all fail to keep looking to Christ rather than the flesh at times. However in order to grow you do NOT look to the written code and strive to obey it, you look to Christ and trust him to lead you in the power of the holy spirit.
Now why do you want to find fault with that?
Prince is wrong in two areas. The commandment to love one another as I have loved you, is a commandment.
It is a deepening of the expression of love Jesus is showing in His heart that Moses expressed to only one level.
This is not the antithesis of Moses's law, it is its fulfillment.
Princes example of a court for stealing is Gods court as well. Sin is still sin, it still causes damage, love does not change this reality or what grace is. But the illusion concept is somehow love stops the court, or having sin. No grace says these sins are done without sight, confused in the selfish details, and not concerned for the whole. Grace asks why in context is the sin done, how does love show through the right way of behaving.
Love asks the questions,
Why did you steal?
Who are you benefiting and who is loosing?
Where is your trust in provision?
Who have you hurt?
So love makes the court harder. It asks do you see the wider picture and know what righteousness and holiness are.
When you see the light, Jesus, you walk in righteousness, because there is no other way.
But this is not Princes message, he desires to say the court in a place of condemnation so should be ignored. It is actually the opposite, through knowing we are guilty, caught in sin and selfishness, Jesus takes us beyond this into trust and love which means sin is absurd.
It is a deepening of the expression of love Jesus is showing in His heart that Moses expressed to only one level.
This is not the antithesis of Moses's law, it is its fulfillment.
Princes example of a court for stealing is Gods court as well. Sin is still sin, it still causes damage, love does not change this reality or what grace is. But the illusion concept is somehow love stops the court, or having sin. No grace says these sins are done without sight, confused in the selfish details, and not concerned for the whole. Grace asks why in context is the sin done, how does love show through the right way of behaving.
Love asks the questions,
Why did you steal?
Who are you benefiting and who is loosing?
Where is your trust in provision?
Who have you hurt?
So love makes the court harder. It asks do you see the wider picture and know what righteousness and holiness are.
When you see the light, Jesus, you walk in righteousness, because there is no other way.
But this is not Princes message, he desires to say the court in a place of condemnation so should be ignored. It is actually the opposite, through knowing we are guilty, caught in sin and selfishness, Jesus takes us beyond this into trust and love which means sin is absurd.
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Again, you have it the wrong way, you too focused on self effort.
the more you look to God, the LESS effort you put in to resisting temptation. You have to much you in the equation, You can not do anything by yourself. you need Gods power.
If we put ourselves in step wiht the spirit. we will fulfill lust of the flesh. No where does it say if we try really really hard to obey God, then we will resist temptation.
Thats going back to law. And the jews tried it and failed. so has everyone else who ever tried it, that is what paul was saying in romans 7 and 8..
the more you look to God, the LESS effort you put in to resisting temptation. You have to much you in the equation, You can not do anything by yourself. you need Gods power.
If we put ourselves in step wiht the spirit. we will fulfill lust of the flesh. No where does it say if we try really really hard to obey God, then we will resist temptation.
Thats going back to law. And the jews tried it and failed. so has everyone else who ever tried it, that is what paul was saying in romans 7 and 8..
I agree with you on how love looks like in action with regards to others...
again this is a "straw-man" as it appears you are going off on a psychological/philosophical/emotional tangent ( albeit it is true that the good questions to ask are who do you trust...Jesus fulfills your true needs...etc...all good stuff but not the purpose of the teaching ).
You have completely missed the whole purpose of the teaching which was to show what the new commandments are in the New Covenant. To not go back to the law commandments as these 2 commandments fulfill all the law..
The judicial court thing was just saying that the law demands retribution to your actions. It was 2 seconds long.
The teaching then went on to say that we are to love one another "as" I have loved you. That we need to focus in on how much Jesus loves us so that His love will flow out of us to others. How can we really love others unless we know the love of God. ( Paul has this is his prayer in Eph 3:16-19..whic is to know the love of Christ to be filled up with all the fullness of God )
The teaching then went on to say that God blesses every ministry that from the pulpit they teach you about the love of Jesus as they are helping you to fulfill the new commandment - love one another...
Learning about the love of Jesus is a blessing to us! It enables His love to flow out of us to love one another just as He commanded for us.
again this is a "straw-man" as it appears you are going off on a psychological/philosophical/emotional tangent ( albeit it is true that the good questions to ask are who do you trust...Jesus fulfills your true needs...etc...all good stuff but not the purpose of the teaching ).
You have completely missed the whole purpose of the teaching which was to show what the new commandments are in the New Covenant. To not go back to the law commandments as these 2 commandments fulfill all the law..
The judicial court thing was just saying that the law demands retribution to your actions. It was 2 seconds long.
The teaching then went on to say that we are to love one another "as" I have loved you. That we need to focus in on how much Jesus loves us so that His love will flow out of us to others. How can we really love others unless we know the love of God. ( Paul has this is his prayer in Eph 3:16-19..whic is to know the love of Christ to be filled up with all the fullness of God )
The teaching then went on to say that God blesses every ministry that from the pulpit they teach you about the love of Jesus as they are helping you to fulfill the new commandment - love one another...
Learning about the love of Jesus is a blessing to us! It enables His love to flow out of us to love one another just as He commanded for us.
I'm positive I don't know the answer to that one...lol
What is the 4th commandment? I don't think I would be able to name 1/2 of the commandments. I do know that they are good things tho...
What is the 4th commandment? I don't think I would be able to name 1/2 of the commandments. I do know that they are good things tho...
I found that nine as written were already on my heart as should be followed( no surprise there)
And the other one? I viewed it as Paul said we may under the new covenant rom 14:5
Prince's comment that it was a new commandment because we are now to love others as Christ loved us, instead of love others as ourselves, was interesting, but doesn't go anywhere because they are the same. It was a new commandment because it was new law for a new covenant.
I will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...
Maybe an easier way to say this would be..
New Covenant commands and imperatives are divine enablements to " be who you truly are now because of the new creation in Christ "..
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
New Covenant commands and imperatives are divine enablements to " be who you truly are now because of the new creation in Christ "..
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.